British officials tells right wingers in America to stop lying

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
LONDON - Britain's health care service says it is sick of being lied about.

Pilloried by right-wing critics of President Barack Obama's health care plan,

Britain's National Health Service, known here as the NHS, is fighting back.

"People have been saying some untruths in the States," a spokesman for Britain Department of Health said in a telephone interview. "There's been all these ridiculous claims made by the American health lobby about Obama's health care plan ... and they've used the NHS as an example. A lot of it has been untrue."

A particularly outlandish example of a U.S. editorial, printed in the Investor's Business Daily, claimed that renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, who is disabled, "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Hawking, who was born and lives in Britain, personally debunked the claim. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told The Guardian newspaper. Investor's Business Daily has since corrected the editorial.

Waiting lists
As the debate over how best to look after American patients rages on, Britain's socialized health care system has increasingly found itself being drawn into the argument. Critics of the Obama administration's plan to overhaul US health care say the president is seeking to model the U.S. system on that of Britain or Canada — places they paint as countries where patients linger for months on waiting lists and are forbidden from paying for their own medication.

A Republican National Committee ad said that in the U.K. "individuals lose their right to make their own health care choices." Another ad launched earlier this month by the anti-tax group Club for Growth claimed that government bureaucrats in Britain had calculated six months of life to be worth $22,750. "Under their socialized system, if your treatment costs more, you're out of luck," the ad says, as footage of an elderly man weeping at a woman's bedside alternate with clips of the Union Jack and Big Ben.

The online attacks on Britain's health care system have been paired with strident criticism from Republican lawmakers.

In an interview widely interpreted here as an attack on the U.K., Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa told a local radio station last week that "countries that have government-run health care" would not have given Sen. Edward Kennedy, who suffers from a brain tumor, the same standard of care as in the U.S. because he is too old. Another Republican, Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, said that the U.K. and Canada "don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."

The criticism, widely covered in the U.K. media, has clearly stung Britain's left-leaning Labour government. The Department of Health took the unusual step of contacting The Associated Press and e-mailing it a three-page rebuttal to what it said were misconceptions about the NHS being bandied about in the U.S. media — each one followed with the words: "Not true."

At the top of the list was the idea that a patient in his late 70s would not be treated for a brain tumor because he was too old — a transparent reference to Grassley's comments about Kennedy.

And what of Republicans' claim that British patients are robbed of their medical choices? False again, the department said.

"Everyone who is cared for by the NHS in England has formal rights to make choices about the service that they receive," it said in its rebuttal.

Then followed a fact sheet comparing selected statistics such as health spending per capita, infant mortality, life expectancy, and more. Each one showed England outperforming its trans-Atlantic counterpart.

The British government offers health care for free at the point of need, a service pioneered by Labour in 1948. In the six decades since, its promise of universal medical care, from cradle to grave, is taken for granted by Britons to such an extent that politicians — even fiscal conservatives — are loath to attack it.

"How dare the Republicans bad-mouth our free health care system?" Guardian columnist Michele Hanson wrote Wednesday. "If I'd been born in the U.S., I'd probably be dead by now."
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
The only good thing to come to the US out of Britain was the British invasion (music for you youngsters) and a few decent motorcycles. I'm not a "right winger" but I'll politely tell the British officials to fuck off. Fuck off British officals. Next?
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
They are saying quit lying about us, and then you respond with fuck off.

I just cannot help it, reading that made me think of this:
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
LONDON - Britain's health care service says it is sick of being lied about.

Pilloried by right-wing critics of President Barack Obama's health care plan,

Britain's National Health Service, known here as the NHS, is fighting back.

"People have been saying some untruths in the States," a spokesman for Britain Department of Health said in a telephone interview. "There's been all these ridiculous claims made by the American health lobby about Obama's health care plan ... and they've used the NHS as an example. A lot of it has been untrue."

A particularly outlandish example of a U.S. editorial, printed in the Investor's Business Daily, claimed that renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, who is disabled, "wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Hawking, who was born and lives in Britain, personally debunked the claim. "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he told The Guardian newspaper. Investor's Business Daily has since corrected the editorial.

Waiting lists
As the debate over how best to look after American patients rages on, Britain's socialized health care system has increasingly found itself being drawn into the argument. Critics of the Obama administration's plan to overhaul US health care say the president is seeking to model the U.S. system on that of Britain or Canada — places they paint as countries where patients linger for months on waiting lists and are forbidden from paying for their own medication.

A Republican National Committee ad said that in the U.K. "individuals lose their right to make their own health care choices." Another ad launched earlier this month by the anti-tax group Club for Growth claimed that government bureaucrats in Britain had calculated six months of life to be worth $22,750. "Under their socialized system, if your treatment costs more, you're out of luck," the ad says, as footage of an elderly man weeping at a woman's bedside alternate with clips of the Union Jack and Big Ben.

The online attacks on Britain's health care system have been paired with strident criticism from Republican lawmakers.

In an interview widely interpreted here as an attack on the U.K., Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa told a local radio station last week that "countries that have government-run health care" would not have given Sen. Edward Kennedy, who suffers from a brain tumor, the same standard of care as in the U.S. because he is too old. Another Republican, Congressman Paul Broun of Georgia, said that the U.K. and Canada "don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."

The criticism, widely covered in the U.K. media, has clearly stung Britain's left-leaning Labour government. The Department of Health took the unusual step of contacting The Associated Press and e-mailing it a three-page rebuttal to what it said were misconceptions about the NHS being bandied about in the U.S. media — each one followed with the words: "Not true."

At the top of the list was the idea that a patient in his late 70s would not be treated for a brain tumor because he was too old — a transparent reference to Grassley's comments about Kennedy.

And what of Republicans' claim that British patients are robbed of their medical choices? False again, the department said.

"Everyone who is cared for by the NHS in England has formal rights to make choices about the service that they receive," it said in its rebuttal.

Then followed a fact sheet comparing selected statistics such as health spending per capita, infant mortality, life expectancy, and more. Each one showed England outperforming its trans-Atlantic counterpart.

The British government offers health care for free at the point of need, a service pioneered by Labour in 1948. In the six decades since, its promise of universal medical care, from cradle to grave, is taken for granted by Britons to such an extent that politicians — even fiscal conservatives — are loath to attack it.

"How dare the Republicans bad-mouth our free health care system?" Guardian columnist Michele Hanson wrote Wednesday. "If I'd been born in the U.S., I'd probably be dead by now."
Just a response to the last paragraph. I am sure the collective IQ of the world would have leaped dramatically if that happy event had in fact occurred.

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Filthy NHS Hospitals


How should the NHS be reformed?


Record numbers go abroad for health treatment with 70,000 escaping NHS

Diabetes UK: NHS fails two thirds of people with diabetes



 

GreenThumbSucker

Well-Known Member

Yet for all the failures of the Brit system, it is 18th in the world and the US is 37th.

The US is behind third world countries like Costa Rica and Columbia.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Who the hell rates these countries and why do we believe or give a shit?
The only thing the "government run people" want really is prices to come down.
Thats all I get out of the whole arguement.
Lasic eye surgery, plastic surgery and elective surgerys
the prices don't go up they come down.
Why is that?

Because they are opporating in a more free market
unrestrained by government and insurance regulations.
Untempted by huge pools of public and insurance company funds.

We don't need government to impose 'price controls' or 'ration' care.
We need them to stop trying to help us.
They have done enouph damage already, thank you very much.

Even if this was the best idea ever
people are sick and tired of government spending.
People are sick of government oversteping its constitutional bounderys.
Many people just want to be left alone.
 

ViRedd

New Member
What I've heard is ... if auto accidents and suicides are omitted from the equation, U.S. health care comes out as #1 in the world.
 

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
British "officials", tell? So I guess we're to assume these "officials" speak for the masses? And that they, the presumed "officials", assume they speak with authority? Sounds just like what we have over here, cross the pond. Lovely...
 

what... huh?

Active Member
Again... not to mention that we are fucking obese. We eat a lot of crap that makes us sick. So many other illnesses come simply from obesity too.

You note that they don't address the waiting lists either... just to say that an old man might get put further down the waiting list or some such nonsense.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
I'm sorry... doesn't the NHS exists solely for the purpose of rationing care?


I thought so.


Not to mention, at the end of the day the entire point is that it is an issue of control. It removes the power the overwhelming majority of us exercise in CHOICE. It also puts life and death decisions in the hands not of doctors, but bureaucrats who are hired by, not doctors, but a couple of appointees. What does NHS do again?

Right.

No thanks. If you have a family and can not provide them coverage... well that is just the sort of motivation people use to succeed in our society. It provides the impetus to better ones self and situation. If anything major goes wrong... they will treat you at the ER. Say your wife gets a lump that needs to be looked at. Get a policy that day. Come up with the money. Find a way to keep paying it. It is good for us.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
All your information is wrong on the subject what-huh you have done zero research on it other than what crap you have been fed, I know because I see the party line info in your post almost verbatim.

btw you are talking to a disabled person here, who has fallen through this countries cracks and of course can't just go get insurance now, pre existing condition. So, before you spout off about how everyone is just as perfectly able to care for themselves as you are, think for at least once second first with your own brain not the collectives brain. Resist being assimilated more than you resist free healhcare for all. Bad shit can happen to you and your insurance can be cancelled at any moment for any reason and then you can't get on new insurance because of the pre-existing shit. Happens to people every single day.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
No, they have to have a reason. Maybe some information you gave when they were evaluating coverage is erroneous... that is usually the issue. I have not only done research, I have very personal experience with the system I will not go into. I don't listen to or read my opinions, I make them. If they mimic what one side is saying, it is because they also came to the same conclusion. I am an anti-socialist, not a republican.


*as you seem comfortable discussing your personal situation, I would ask a question. Please don't misread the tone of it...

How would Obama's health care have changed your current situation? Not your history, unless you believe that you would not currently be disabled with it.


** I also might point out that one of the large draws of the military IS the lifelong health care. I like a volunteer force. I like it a lot.

Last question... what is it you think the NHS does other than designate care?

I mean... they are basically bureaucratic triage. There are lists. There are more urgent patients on those lists. That is what they do... on a national scale. We are a lot bigger than they are... not to mention that their population density is 9 times ours. We are 330,000,000 over a lot of land.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
No, they have to have a reason. Maybe some information you gave when they were evaluating coverage is erroneous... that is usually the issue. I have not only done research, I have very personal experience with the system I will not go into. I don't listen to or read my opinions, I make them. If they mimic what one side is saying, it is because they also came to the same conclusion. I am an anti-socialist, not a republican.
Yes you are right they look for any reason to kick people off like say you had a cold when you were 5 so your chronic brochitis is now seen as a pre-existing condition and they claim you withheld that information on purpose.

How many times have you filled out any medical form without leaving out half the dumb stuff you have had before in your life that makes no difference to anyone but that can easily be seen in your medical records?

The problems with our system far outweigh anything that's actually truly wrong with any other countries systems we would have liked to emulate but because of the powers that be we won't get much of any change anyway, but the one thing I'm most concerned with is just changing the pre-existing thing which they are doing, so that alone makes it worth it for you just as much as for me because you don't even know what all the things are everyone in your family has had if you are a guy, which I think you are even though I have to look at that pregnant picture all the time, which I guess is your wife but man nobody else wants to see your pregnant wife dude.

Sorry about that, just another peeve I have about you. It's not personal and obviously you will continue to do what you want and believe what you want so here's to you, I'm lighting a bowl.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
How many times have you filled out any medical form without leaving out half the dumb stuff you have had before in your life that makes no difference to anyone but that can easily be seen in your medical records?
I am not making this about you and I. When you sign, swearing the information is correct on a legal contract, you need to read and affirm it. Any legal contract.

The government with control of that bureaucracy will be no less cold. It is not sustainable.

The problems with our system far outweigh anything that's actually truly wrong with any other countries systems we would have liked to emulate but because of the powers that be we won't get much of any change anyway, but the one thing I'm most concerned with is just changing the pre-existing thing which they are doing, so that alone makes it worth it for you just as much as for me because you don't even know what all the things are everyone in your family has had if you are a guy, which I think you are even though I have to look at that pregnant picture all the time, which I guess is your wife but man nobody else wants to see your pregnant wife dude.
LMAO...

That is octomom. What I choose to say might not always be what you would like to see. You will just have to manage.

Sorry about that, just another peeve I have about you. It's not personal and obviously you will continue to do what you want and believe what you want so here's to you, I'm lighting a bowl.
ahh thats funny.
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking just about me, there are millions of me's.

Octomom? Nobody wants to see that either. Why would a guy use a pic of octomom as his avatar? An example of the dregs of society? Not all people left out of health insurance in this country are deadbeats many have several and I mean several part time jobs none of which gives them any coverage at all and still can barely support their kids. Corporations do that stuff so they don't have to pay benefits, they'll only hire for just below the number of hours needed where they are required to give benefits etc.

You really are missing a whole lot of information on what is wrong with our system, and or you just don't care about other people either which is ironic since I'm an athiest and I care more about those that can't help themselves more than a supposed crisitian. Most cristians in fact.

How is it not sustainable when other countries have sustained it for 50+ years and will continue to and not only are they in general happy with it, they will never give it up and will flat out riot if it's messed with?
 

what... huh?

Active Member
5 states restrict insurance coverage of abortion in private insurance plans; 4 limit coverage to cases when the woman’s life is endangered; 1 limits coverage to life endangerment, rape and incest. Additional abortion coverage is permitted only through purchase of an additional rider and payment of an additional premium.
12 states restrict abortion coverage in insurance plans for public employees.
3 of the states provide abortion coverage only when the woman’s life is endangered.
7 of the states, in addition to offering coverage to save the woman’s life, provide coverage to protect the woman’s health or in cases of rape, incest or fetal abnormality.
2 of the states flatly prohibit any insurance coverage of abortion for public employees.

That's done. States rights vs federal? Fed keeps winning. That is one of the more important points here. I am pro-choice, but this is not how it is supposed to work.


What about plastic surgery? Is that covered? What about if the plastic surgery is to repair after cancer?

What procedures get covered? Who makes that decision? Do you know? It will have to be an evolving document. Awesome.


What about Octomom? Is her invetro covered?
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I know you are not that dumb dude, don't try to pretend to be. Do you really wonder if elective surgery is going to be covered? I can give you a hint, the answer is no... They do reconstructive plastic surgery for people who need it, accidents and such, standard practice and something everyone would want done if they had a disfiguring injury. Nothing new there...


That's your problem with the new system because it's not perfect we should stay where we are until we can agree on a perfect system? (referring to the abortion thing and it not being perfect, far from it, but at least it's heading one little step in the right direction) Change will never take place if the only change you will accept is perfection. That's the real plan to arguing every little thing tie it all up as long as possible if not forever. I'm pro choice as well, I'm so glad we agree on something that's cool that you are not following party line on everything. Maybe you can be saved, so to speak.

Don't worry I agree not to try and "save you" and bug you all the time I will be done with this soon and leave you alone. Just don't try to save me either as an athiest in return and we're all good.

:)
 

what... huh?

Active Member
Octomom? Nobody wants to see that either. Why would a guy use a pic of octomom as his avatar?
Because it is grotesque and it begs the question...

Not all people left out of health insurance in this country are deadbeats many have several and I mean several part time jobs none of which gives them any coverage at all and still can barely support their kids.
Strawman. I never suggested that they were deadbeats.

Corporations do that stuff so they don't have to pay benefits, they'll only hire for just below the number of hours needed where they are required to give benefits etc.
Why do you believe your insurance is being payed by your employer because they write the check? They just pay you less. You are still paying for it.

You really are missing a whole lot of information on what is wrong with our system, and or you just don't care about other people either which is ironic since I'm an athiest and I care more about those that can't help themselves more than a supposed crisitian. Most cristians in fact.
Not Christian either. Quit making this personal. I am not inhuman. Freedom requires sacrifice. We sacrifice those who do not help themselves. There is no reason on earth that in this country you should not have health care. The very poor have medicaid. Beyond that, if you don't have health coverage, but you have an xbox and a flatscreen TV, you don't have your priorities straight. Like walking across busy intersections without looking. Not dying, is what every instinct tells us to do... if we do not, it is not the fault of the system.

How is it not sustainable when other countries have sustained it for 50+ years and will continue to and not only are they in general happy with it, they will never give it up and will flat out riot if it's messed with?
Because they are really small countries, and pay 65% taxes, and I don't want to for the great honor of surrendering freedom of choice. I do not believe I am too stupid to allocate my own fucking resources, that I need the government to do it for me at a fee I can't decide, and without adequate choices... and if I get my own... I still have to pay for yours. Suddenly outside insurance costs a lot more... Fewer people have it... and boom... it becomes even more expensive.
 

what... huh?

Active Member
I know you are not that dumb dude, don't try to pretend to be. Do you really wonder if elective surgery is going to be covered? I can give you a hint, the answer is no... They do reconstructive plastic surgery for people who need it, accidents and such, standard practice and something everyone would want done if they had a disfiguring injury. Nothing new there...
The reason breast reconstructive surgery is rarely covered by outside insurance is because it is classified as cosmetic. It will be a hurdle... and who knows who makes that decision. I know it isn't me.


That's your problem with the new system because it's not perfect we should stay where we are until we can agree on a perfect system? (referring to the abortion thing and it not being perfect, far from it, but at least it's heading one little step in the right direction) Change will never take place if the only change you will accept is perfection. That's the real plan to arguing every little thing tie it all up as long as possible if not forever. I'm pro choice as well, I'm so glad we agree on something that's cool that you are not following party line on everything. Maybe you can be saved, so to speak.
I do not make the perfect the enemy of the good. Look at medicare. You want them running everything? Their job is rationing too. That is what they do.

Don't worry I agree not to try and "save you" and bug you all the time I will be done with this soon and leave you alone. Just don't try to save me either as an athiest in return and we're all good.

:)
No worries.
 
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