Religion Poisons Everything

[Brazko]

Entangled..,

I don't understand why they think War, Rape, Murder, Greed, Misogny, Racism, and on and on to ad nauseaum, is going to disappear when Religion disappears, Or maybe just the Christian God, who is responsible for bringing these things into existence and will disappear once we cease to imaging God to exist,

Entangled...,

Then after the Christian God disappears, or which he doesn't really exist at all.., Then those who believed will be finally awakened to the gloriousness of truth that the non-believers had all the time., Not quite like the believers had before.., Then Man will know he answers to nothing but Man, and knowing only man's Rule and Law exist, then we can finally love and Help one another because we don't have the interference of an make believe God to decide what is moral, because we already do, Religion has been the poison of Man.., Not Man's on Deeds..,


Entangled...,

- Maybe the Believers and Non-Believers are Just holding to tightly to being - Entangled.., Maybe when they learn to let go, they will become Detangled..,

Nobody likes to fall in an Empty Void, it's Scary, It's Fear of the unknown..., The Mind is afraid of the Void it will fall In.., But there is no Void, The Mind will Expand till there is No Void left..., an Instantly it will become the Void.., See, still no Fear!!


Entangled...,

? How can you visit a white Room.., be at Peace, When you despise and Hate? Peace has no Room for held Emotions? I'm just wondering, that's all.., that was directed at my meditation Guru's who are enlightened in the Ways of Meditation, but can't conquer their Hate.., Please, Teach me to hold on to Hatred, so that I too may be Enlightened.., Sifu

 

[DEXTER MORGAN]

Entangled..,

I don't understand why they think War, Rape, Murder, Greed, Misogny, Racism, and on and on to ad nauseaum, is going to disappear when Religion disappears, Or maybe just the Christian God, who is responsible for bringing these things into existence and will disappear once we cease to imaging God to exist,

Entangled...,

Then after the Christian God disappears, or which he doesn't really exist at all.., Then those who believed will be finally awakened to the gloriousness of truth that the non-believers had all the time., Not quite like the believers had before.., Then Man will know he answers to nothing but Man, and knowing only man's Rule and Law exist, then we can finally love and Help one another because we don't have the interference of an make believe God to decide what is moral, because we already do, Religion has been the poison of Man.., Not Man's on Deeds..,


Entangled...,

- Maybe the Believers and Non-Believers or Just holding to tightly to being - Entangled.., Maybe when they learn to let go, they will become Detangled..,

Nobody likes to fall in an Empty Void, it's Scary, It's Fear of the unknown..., The Mind is afraid of the Void it will fall In.., But there is no Void, The Mind will Expand till there is No Void left..., an Instantly it will become the Void.., See, still no Fear!!


Entangled...,

? How can you visit a white Room.., be at Peace, When you despise and Hate? Peace has no Room for held Emotions? I'm just wondering, that's all.., that was directed at my meditation Guru's who are enlightened in the Ways of Meditation, but can't conquer their Hate.., Please, Teach me to hold on to Hatred, so that I too may be Enlightened.., Sifu

Excellent post Brazko. And you're right, rape, murder, greed, racism etc will NOT disapear. Atheists who blame religion for bad things are very ignorant and have no place in an intellegent conversation. I am an atheist but I can clearly see that churches are doing no harm to anyone. Even on this website its the atheists who are constantly attacking other people. And you brought up another good point too.... Why the fuck do people get so mad at things they dont even believe in?? Thats like me sitting around hating on Santa Claus. Maybe its denial, putting others down in order to feel better about themselves?

 

[Brazko]

Well, if I have learned anything from an Atheist on Here.. mainly speaking of Ice and yourself.., is that Atheist are not all Brainwashed on here, just like all Theist are not.. including the Real World as well.,, I just might consider calling myself an Atheist again., but the term inherently won't stick, because I do believe..., and my Mind expands to far for Walls., Thanks for the Comment, and thanks for Enlightening me from the bewilderment that all Atheist on here were Ignorant... the both of You,

I believe you understand the Denial of some Atheist, like I understand the Denial of Some Theist..

 

[undertheice]

Well, if I have learned anything from an Atheist on Here.. mainly speaking of Ice and yourself.., is that Atheist are not all Brainwashed on here, just like all Theist are not.....

like any other schism, there are fanatics on both sides of the debate, as well as the more rational proponents. any attempt to force a belief system on others is doomed to failure and only causes the rift to widen. just as in politics, there are leaders, there are followers and then there are those that only try to understand. things like the secular assault on christmas and the various attempts to ban religious icons from public view are the work of fanatics, bent on forcing their ideals onto as many others as possible and show atheism in the unkindest of lights. on the other side of that coin are folks like westboro baptist and jihadists, heaping abuse and/or death on anyone who won't accept their narrow view of reality. though i've always had a problem with religion (i actually made the jump from considering myself an agnostic to full blown atheist at christmas eve services) and tend to consider religion a bit childish, i just can't understand the outright hatred for those with faith that i so often see in nonbelievers.

 

[Brazko]

like any other schism, there are fanatics on both sides of the debate, as well as the more rational proponents. any attempt to force a belief system on others is doomed to failure and only causes the rift to widen. just as in politics, there are leaders, there are followers and then there are those that only try to understand. things like the secular assault on christmas and the various attempts to ban religious icons from public view are the work of fanatics, bent on forcing their ideals onto as many others as possible and show atheism in the unkindest of lights. on the other side of that coin are folks like westboro baptist and jihadists, heaping abuse and/or death on anyone who won't accept their narrow view of reality. though i've always had a problem with religion (i actually made the jump from considering myself an agnostic to full blown atheist at christmas eve services) and tend to consider religion a bit childish, i just can't understand the outright hatred for those with faith that i so often see in nonbelievers.

I don't understand either.., I called myself a Christian, because I was raised Christian and even though, I know longer follow the overall general message taught in Christainity.., It is stll the Overall truth of my Interpretation of the sometimes not so Obvious messages (and purposedly hidden, to be discovered) of Man and the Universe explained within the texts of Christanity (the Bible)... but like you I can no longer claim to be called a Christian because Christians do not collectively and generally exhibit a nature that is Christ like.. I Am a believer in the Christ that resides within all of Us, as Well as the Many other Truths that are held worldwide.., Nobody or No one thing get's it Right.., It's opening yourself to all that is True, that permits One to get it Right!!

Realization comes in the Truth of Realizing we Are all Humans., Minus the RElationship, Minus the Belief, Minus the Cause.., WE are all still Human.., We will advance only so far as to Which All Humans will Advance...

 

[Brazko]

hmmmmm..., after dealing with Hippie, I can't say I know what that Truth is anymore.., Guess I'll just have to remain Open!!

 

[ThaDutchieCouple]

Excellent post Brazko. And you're right, rape, murder, greed, racism etc will NOT disapear. Atheists who blame religion for bad things are very ignorant and have no place in an intellegent conversation. I am an atheist but I can clearly see that churches are doing no harm to anyone. Even on this website its the atheists who are constantly attacking other people. And you brought up another good point too.... Why the fuck do people get so mad at things they dont even believe in?? Thats like me sitting around hating on Santa Claus. Maybe its denial, putting others down in order to feel better about themselves?

I don't blame religious people for the bad things being done on the earth. I blame them for wasting time and money on an organization that has made no improvement (in my opinion worsened) in the world except give a fake comfort to people. Imagine the billions of dollars being wasted on building big elaborate churches, and all the 'necessities' that come along with it. When there are innocent children dying from starvation around the globe. I could find many places to put all that money to good use.
Republican Governor of Louisiana Bobby Jindal, used $45,000 of tax payer money to visit and speak at churches. $1,200 an hour to operate which adds up to about $45,000 for five months of church visits. That is appalling. I think its time to stand up against the money hungry, good for nothing waste, and start putting our time, money, and effort into things that actually exists.

 

[OregonMeds]

Athiests don't hate religious people in general just the religions. Unless you're talking about some slick willy preacher with a rolex or whatever then yes I do hate them personally and for very very good reason.

 

[Brazko]

Athiests don't hate religious people in general just the religions. Unless you're talking about some slick willy preacher with a rolex or whatever then yes I do hate them personally and for very very good reason.

Guess What? I do Too.., but it's not Religion I hate.., REligion would be justified to not getting taxed if what it stood for was just.. but Guess What? Religion does stand for what is Just.. It is Marketed Religion that is Corrupt.., Like any Other extravagant Business.., that puts aside the need for everyone, with the need for only self.., I believe in helping youself to help others.. Not helping yourself to Others to help yourself.., Religious or Not, it's the SAme thing. If you want to get rid of that Religious type behaviour, you have to search deeper than religion being at fault.. REligion isn't Bad.. People are Bad and they do exist.. and all People are subject to being Manipulated.. Religious or Not.., and as I said before religion (all of them) don't get it all right, but the intent and direction in my opinion is right.., that still doesn't make it evil/bad because it is not a system of complete Rightousness as interpreted by whomever.., It can be better understood if we understood nothing man creates as an all abiding law or rule is subject to error... if No error, then nothing to progress to... If No error, nothing to evolve to, or from.. If no Error, we are no longer Human, but gods,, but there is an Error,,, we B Human

the Blame game is only a game of Denial.., The choice of Denial is the game of Ignorance.. The Game of Ignorance is the Life of Humans..,

God, I can't wait to be in your shoes!! No, Really...,

If you stop placing Blame, then you will find that there is nothing at all to Blame for your misery..,

I hate slick Willy, But Willy was Slick without Religion

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

What religion were you 420 yeas ago?

 

[DEXTER MORGAN]

Athiests don't hate religious people in general just the religions. Unless you're talking about some slick willy preacher with a rolex or whatever then yes I do hate them personally and for very very good reason.

Yes, atheists do hate religious people, some, not all, but atheist none the less. Ive seen them say so on this forum. Even your dumbass admitted to hating someone you dont even know. Honestly, atheists like you that hold grudges and hatred for people you dont know are really lame. Really really lame. Get a life

 

[morgentaler]

I'm sure some atheists do and vice versa.
I don't personally hate anyone for their religious beliefs, but I do hold contempt for the irrational beliefs specifically. And if "God" were anything but a literary villain I would certainly hate it.

Christian scripture professes a hate for unbelievers throughout. Calling them various names and saying they are not worthy of association or mercy, etc.

It doesn't mean all Christians will hate unbelievers, but if they aren't abiding by their scriptures why do they promote themselves as Christians in the first place?

 

[Brazko]

I'm sure some atheists do and vice versa.
I don't personally hate anyone for their religious beliefs, but I do hold contempt for the irrational beliefs specifically. And if "God" were anything but a literary villain I would certainly hate it.

Christian scripture professes a hate for unbelievers throughout. Calling them various names and saying they are not worthy of association or mercy, etc.

It doesn't mean all Christians will hate unbelievers, but if they aren't abiding by their scriptures why do they promote themselves as Christians in the first place?

What particular Irrational belief?

What particular villainous Act is committed and for what purpose?

Profess a hate for what type of Unbelief?

Worthy of what association or Mercy?

What rules should they abide by to call themselves Christian?

The questions do not necessarily need to be answered, because they all lie within what you believe to be True.., by mere choice of choosing to Believe them So..,

To say God was on Alqaeda Side during 9/11, is the Same as saying God was on Our Side to victor a War.., If you interpret God to be Some individual fictional or Non Fictional entity, then that is What you Believe.., and that God is the God that fought with Alqaeda and America.. Why would the Same God fight against himself? I mean, if we should look at interpreting words for literal or allegorical face value, then I cannot believe a God to exist, that would commit suicide., again and again.., Literally speaking!!

You cannot limit your understanding on a giving subject, and claim it as fact, then refute all other opinions as false, because your understanding, is the Correct Meaning..,

My meaning may not be correct, but I will not judge others by my interpretation.., I can only judge Myself and my Actions.., Then society as a Whole will give Value to my Actions....,


, I'm not laughing at you., I'm laughing at myself.., I feel like I'm preaching.., and nobody likes the feeling of being preached too,

I'm gonna stfu Now..

 

[Brazko]

Oh, I forgot... Peek A Boo,

Why are you asking for Hate Mail?

you don't have to answer it, I already know,
it is What you believe..

 

[Higher Education]

You completely dodged the point that God murdering all those people was not an act of human free will.

Did not. They used their will to ignore God.

Of course no one really died, but if the bible wasn't a work of fiction then they must be mass murders by a loving god, however you choose to define love.

You are also treating the bible as a historical document. It is not. It is a religious text.

The Bible is a historical document. There are hundreds of secular historians (who were neutral about Christ and the Christianity as a whole) that verify a lot of the events that took place in the Bible. I have a reference book full of them if you want some.

You're operating under the assumption that this universe came from nothing. The big bang is merely an explanation for how this universe formed, but it does not limit that which can occur outside the system. To assume "God" simply because you don't have the answers is to embrace ignorance.

People used to belief that dirty clothing or piles of moldy grain spontaneously generated mice.
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/Bio114/spontgen.htm.

Your comment about this is completely irrelevant, I am referring to all the matter in existence, including any matter that have have existed before the forming of the universe. I am assuming that it had to come from some where.

1. You assume a closed system.
2. "God Did It!" is not an acceptable answer without proof. Admitting one does not yet have the answer to a problem and working toward it is the proper methodology. Claiming a deity performed an act without substantiating proof is fraud. *The bible is not proof.

If you're talking about all matter in existence as a system, which I was, then how could that system be open if there are no other systems to interact with? It would be closed by definition of it being the only system. Your physics knowledge is lacking. Your bible of bones and fossil collections offers no more proof than my bible. "Over Billions of Years" is not an acceptable answer without proof either.

Yes it sounds terribly silly that you would consider God logical.
What you might consider "nothing" can be the equilibrium of two states of charge, positive and negative arriving at a zero sum.
And once again you make assumptions about the origin of the universe. Where do you get your information? The people with the best tools to see back into the depths of time still don't have access to that information yet.
And you can just pull it out of your head like that?

When I say nothing I mean the abscence of all physics quantities (both vectors and scalars) including the four fundemental forces. I was never taught to call a charge or it's state of equilibrium "nothing" in school. I just referred to it as a charge and said the word equilibrium. Why are you even mentioning this state of equilibrium between charges that you call "nothing" if even the "people" you call scientists haven't found it? What is the point?

No I don't. Because they are not.

What is your definition of perfect, and what qualfications do you have to define a perfect universe?

When speaking of probabilities of something that already exists, the probability of such a thing occurring is 1.

You took my sentence out of context here. I said the strong nuclear force was perfect, not the universe. My definition of perfect is that it allows all of the elements on the periodic table to exist, which allows for carbon based life forms such as ourselves, even though there is a huge margin of error. A little nudge in each directions in terms of magnitude and everything would cease to exist. The qualifications I have that justify me making this statement is that I will soon have my bachelors degree in physics and another in applied discrete math. Afterwards I will be heading to grad school for my Ph.D.

I am not speaking of the probablility of something that already exists. That is irrelevant. I am referring to the probability of the strong nuclear force being the set value as it is by random chance.

Would you care to retract that statement?

The 20 year E. coli experiment by Richard Lenski observed over 20,000 generations of E. coli, archived at 75 generation steps, and shows demonstrable evolution.

https://myxo.css.msu.edu/ecoli/

Bacteria evolved to eat Nylon, which did not exist until the last century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

There has been observed speciation in many types of plants, and short-lifespan creatures such as Rhagoletis pomonella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_maggot

Additionally look into Ring Species to see how genetic distribution over long distances results in short range interbreeding ability, but long range inability as genetic drift occurs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

Susumu Ohno was only speculating about the frame shift mutation. Your wikipedia article even says so. I care not to hear about speculation, only facts. That leads me to wonder if I researched rings species and apple maggots if they would be based on speculation too. You're not doing a good job convincing me here.

I have 2 animals with specific genetic mutations in a cage 3 feet from me.
Male humans average around 150 mutations per generation. Apply that to hundreds of thousands of generations and you will find a significantly different organism.
Take a full set of Encyclopedia Britannica's and change 150 letters each second for the next 100,000 seconds. Then read one of the articles. That is evolution in action.

Patently false. See above.
Additionally, the random nature of mutations will result in negative, neutral, and positive outcomes.
A mutation which kills off the individual on their 50th birthday will persist in offspring until eliminated by sexual selection of genes or point mutation. Since the individual is beyond reproductive age this lethal gene does not interfere with reproductive fitness, the "fittest" of Darwin's mechanism.

I am no expert on cellular biology and genetics, but Francis S. Collins is, and he believes in God. I have a book written by him titled "The Language of God". Dr. Collins was the lead researcher of the team that cracked the human genome back in 1999 under the Clinton administration. If such a prestigious geneticist believes in God then I think I am in good company. Albert Einstein, Werner Heisenberg, and Sir Isaac Newton also all believed in God. I have to ask, what are your credentials in comparison to theirs?

Another example of a creationist trying to discount something because their definition of the word is "guess" while science has a very different interpretation.

A scientific theory is arrived at through several stages. An observation is made, and a hypothesis is formed. From the hypothesis experiments are designed. The experiments are performed and the evidence is collected. If any part of the experimentation process is found to be falsifiable, eg. removing an element of the experiment does not change the outcome, then the experiment is revisited until it is no longer falsifiable. With sufficient evidence you may then present this information as a theory.

If you don't have much regard for theories you can just float off into space now, as we only have a theory of gravity as well.

We have the fact of gravity.
We have the fact of evolution.

edit: Just in case you try to use the "Law of Gravity" here, a law refers to a consistency of predicted state but does not entail an explanation. You can know that what goes up must come down, but not know why. This falls under the purview of laws.

Scientific frauds don't last long, because there is continued inquiry.
If religion tolerated inquiry there would be no religion, hence the whole Adam and Eve fable intimating that seeking knowledge is wrong.

Mitochondrial DNA and the study of Endogenous Retroviruses confirm the main talking points of natural selection. Darwin was not aware of genetics, nor the specificity of how the traits were passed on, but his theory of natural selection has borne out under close scrutiny by whole fields that couldn't exist if he was wrong.

Genetics is not a field where the bible can provide any insight.

Gravity has empirical evidence that everyone experiences everyday. All of the evidence you have presented me with for the case of evolution is speculative, even one of your own sources says so. Religion does allow for inquiry and scientific reasoning. The problem arises when people are afraid to mix religion and science. I don't know what the main talking points are about natural selection, because once again, I am a physicist, not a geneticist. I am sure Francis S. Collins does though, and he believes in God.

 

[howhighru]

I wouldnt call religion "poison" I would just call it bullshit

i totally agree wit u man

 

[OregonMeds]

Yes, atheists do hate religious people, some, not all, but atheist none the less. Ive seen them say so on this forum. Even your dumbass admitted to hating someone you dont even know. Honestly, atheists like you that hold grudges and hatred for people you dont know are really lame. Really really lame. Get a life

Show me where I said I hate anyone (a real person not a preacher or a "god" or a religion).

Show me...

Maybe you came across somewhere I said I hate something and took it literally instead of just a figure of speach. I'm guessing you probably aren't the greatest at discerning the intent behind writings and take too many things literally. Just like perhaps you do with the bible...

 

[Higher Education]

Hey everyone! I've got an idea! Let's watch Richard Dawkins make an ass of himself by using phrases like "flying spaghetti monsters" and ASSuming a woman was brought up Christian just because she lives in America!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg&feature=fvw

 

[Woodstock.Hippie]

Anyone see Jesus Camp?

edit:

It was scary.

 

[Higher Education]

Anyone see Jesus Camp?

I saw only a little. Pure indoctrination. My problem with the adults teaching those kids is that they aren't teaching them to be thinkers. Just repeaters. Not to say that the kids are being taught wrong ideals, but just the style in which they were being taught.