Hydro (Advanced Nutrients) vs Soil (Fox Farms) ~ Fucking Incredible

[laserbrn]

Did you add B1 before and after transplanting the clones? Let the rockwell soak in a very dilute b1 for 30 minutes before planting. Then next watering add a 1/4 strenght hydro mix.
as for the b1 i recomend aussietonic

I'll try that in the future. I just did the first watering @ 1/4 strength basically, but didn't use B1 in the cubes before the transplant. I should've soaked the cubes, then let'em dry out a little first. From now on I'm going to go ahead and do that. I seem to have this problem at the start every time. I never realized soil plants would just take off and not have the problems at all. I've never even noticed it WAS a problem, just thought like I said it was the "lag" sorta speak before they get going. Everyone I know that grows has experienced this and even when I checked with them says this usually happens to them too with clones in hydro. I've noticed it seems to happen less if they are well established in the smaller cubes first....

I'm leaving work now and I'll snap some pics when I get home.

 

[DaveCoulier]

I'll try that in the future. I just did the first watering @ 1/4 strength basically, but didn't use B1 in the cubes before the transplant. I should've soaked the cubes, then let'em dry out a little first. From now on I'm going to go ahead and do that. I seem to have this problem at the start every time. I never realized soil plants would just take off and not have the problems at all. I've never even noticed it WAS a problem, just thought like I said it was the "lag" sorta speak before they get going. Everyone I know that grows has experienced this and even when I checked with them says this usually happens to them too with clones in hydro. I've noticed it seems to happen less if they are well established in the smaller cubes first....

I'm leaving work now and I'll snap some pics when I get home.

Its all about that air porosity. Rockwool holds just as much water as peat moss, or peat based mediums, but the air porosity of rockwool is cut in half by comparison. If those roots can't use that excess water quick enough they start to suffocate, and then the problems start

[SIZE=-1]Growing Media Physical Properties
Water Holding% Air Porosity%

Coconut Coir 88.35 23.5
Perlite 19.63 41.1
Peat-lite 84.78 20.0
Coir/Perlite 57.40 35.0
Rockwool 86.85 10.3 [/SIZE]


I dont do hydro, but there has to be better mediums than rockwool out there.

 

[Whey2Sly]

Doing the same hydro and soil 2 Purple-berry Kush clones, 1 strawberry cough clone.Put the(Sb Cough)in soil since it being mostly sativa and should out grow my Pb Kush clones. 3days in the hydro has woke up sooner and starting to take off looks like the hydro is a day ahead of the two in soil..

 

[Mr.GreenJeans]

Very interesting thread now that the obligatory troll has finished trying to start a pissing match!!!

I'm strictly a play-in-the-dirt kind of guy, so this experiment interests me greatly. I use the FFOF soil with about 10% perlite added (don't use more or it will drain TOO well and you'll end up having to water daily -- I made that mistake on a previous grow!). FF GrowBig is good stuff, but as you stated, once you get into flowering, their recommended product line tends to run lower in N than you really need to maintain healthy foliage until maturity. I've always corrected that by using 1 tsp of GrowBig per gallon (every other watering) way beyond the recommended point. In fact, I usually use GrowBig in small doses as a supplement until the last few weeks before harvest -- this has resulted, thus far, in nice healthy green foliage with minimal leaf drop until the last few weeks of the cycle. Anyway, just my $0.02 worth (if it's even worth that!!!!).

Good luck with the experiment, and I'll DEFINITELY be along for the ride on this one!!!!!!

 

[laserbrn]

Soil side looks good like I said, hydro side is just getting worse. They'll turn around I'm sure, just wondering how long it's going to take.

If it all goes to shit and the hydro plants don't turn a corner pretty quick then I'll go out and get some more clones and we'll start over. No need to fear, this wil not all be for nothing, I can promise that. I always see things through.

 

[justlearning73]

Laserbrn-thanks for doing this. I will be following through.

 

[decrimCA]

Laserbrn-thanks for doing this. I will be following through.

This is going to be an interesting thread to follow. I've never used FoxFarm and I'm always interested in seeing products run against each other - just don't want to do the work myself LOL I can run Advanced Nutrients on my own, but I don't have the space (or the patience) to run two groups.

Good for you!

Cool times here, too bad a simple grow can't simply be a grow and not turn into an argument all the time. Totally not necessary, I think.

Eh, whatever.

Let's see how this all turns out - you got my attention for sure.

I am surprised the hydro isn't going well right now, but sometimes there's a weird turnaround that happens. Plants are strange like that.

 

[LT1RX7 Drifter]

maybe your hydro clones are transpiring faster then they up-take water, maybe cover with lid from cloning tray to capture some of the water vapor, as for the rw cubes i hate them, they work for that there worth but they do retain alot of water i give mine a sqeeze after the soak and let them stand and dry a little before the insertion of cutting, made a difference for me, had less stem root due to lack of aeration

 

[laserbrn]

maybe your hydro clones are transpiring faster then they up-take water, maybe cover with lid from cloning tray to capture some of the water vapor, as for the rw cubes i hate them, they work for that there worth but they do retain alot of water i give mine a sqeeze after the soak and let them stand and dry a little before the insertion of cutting, made a difference for me, had less stem root due to lack of aeration

In this one area I have to give my self a little slam. I ALWAYS have this problem and I've never addressed it. I always seem to get them through it and things get much much better so I've never worried enough about it. I think I'm going to finding a new medium, I just rather enjoyed the ease of the cubes. The plants just live connected to a little cube while they veg, then transplant into hydroton in pots, such a simple little setup and with no need for drippers or anything like that.

I may try the humidity dome now that the cubes are a little dryer, I was trying to get the cubes to dry out as quickly as possible, they would stay wet for 2 weeks under the dome!

They need to turn the corner quickly, the soil plants are looking good and strong...amazing how simple that is huh? Shit...didn't have to do a thing basically, just sit and wait.

 

[Drr]

yeah.. that's one thing about soil... if you prepare and do your setup work you only have to water and correct minor issues.. and when you really have it dialed in.. you only water when needed...

 

[Go Go Ganja!]

very detailed im subscribed

 

[laserbrn]

I have some bad news. I'm not going to continue this at this time. I've read multiple journals now and haven't seen anything positive about Fucking Incredible.

I'm currently flowering FI under a 600w lamp and I am ready to purchase 2 more 600w lamps for this grow specifically. I just can't make that large of an investment into this and use FI to do it. Too risky when I consider that it's been referred to as "Fucking Mediocre" and nobody I've spoken to has had anything postive to say.

I'm disheartened to say the least, but I'm not stupid enough to expand my operation by 200% and grow my summer's supply of "Fucking Mediocre". This project isn't squashed, it's postponed while I think through my next move. Seeds will likely take too long to get here, get sprouted and I don't see how I could do the comparison. Buying clones from the dispensary is an option, but they are always of questionable quality and identfication, so I'm going to need to check my resources and see what kind of clones I can come up on.

I promise that I WILL follow through with this project and it's not dead, I just can't justify doing it with this and how do I compare mediocre bud to mediocre bud? I still won't feel I have a definitive answer at the end.......aaaaarrrrghhhh..

Anyway, sorry for the let down here, but it won't be long.

 

[surphin]

That's a bummer I was looking forward to this one. Wise choice not to continue with a questionable strain, invest all that money and for what? Look at it as a side-step and not a step-back. Just a delay, a better strain is a better investment.

 

[laserbrn]

That's a bummer I was looking forward to this one. Wise choice not to continue with a questionable strain, invest all that money and for what? Look at it as a side-step and not a step-back. Just a delay, a better strain is a better investment.

Thanks...I really want to do some TGA shit, but the time to get the seeds and to get them going would probably kill me. This needs to be done in winter so that I can have some ganja to smoke. I may end up finishing my currently flowering FI (hydro) and use the 6 soil clones in that tent when these are finished. They are about on the right time schedule so I may do that, but I really have no idea right now.

The main focus is a new strain for the side by side and I'm just reeling right now trying to figure out how to make it happen fast. I can't run 3 600w lights in the summer, the cost is astronomical so I justified all this investment as a means to avoid paying for growing at all in the summer. The opportunity to take a break for 4 months and to take vacations and live my life. I still need to do that, but I don't have weeks and weeks to lose and waste so I'll have to find clones, seeds just won't do.

 

[Delux83]

sorry to hear that laser was really interested in following thats to bad its post poned. i thought FI was a cup winner?

 

[laserbrn]

sorry to hear that laser was really interested in following thats to bad its post poned. i thought FI was a cup winner?

FI is a High Times 2008 Top 10 Strain, but not a cup winner. I have searched and searched and I can't find anything positive about this strain. I promise this delay won't be long (I don't have long) and we'll be back underway again very very shortly. I'll probably create a new thread when it starts and I'll post a link to it on this one.

You guys don't want to see a comparison of mediocre shit, believe me, we want this thing to really be worthwhile. Too risky.

 

[greensister]

Tell you what. Im a soil grower. Lets me and you sit down, put on the first season of Code Monkeys, and do some taste testing. Anyone else want to join us? Bring your buds, and your own munchies.

 

[CLOSETGROWTH]

I tried to put as much description as I could in the title. For those of you that are following along with my first round of Fucking Incredible from Vancouver Island Seed Company this is the thread for the long awaited, overly anticipated and finally underway Soil vs. Hydro grow.

The Setup:
8x3 Closet to be seperated into two sections each with a 3x4 area covered by a 600w HPS lamp. The 600's won't actually be in the room until flower, I will veg under one 6 lamp T5HO to start them off, then upgrade each side to it's own 400w lamp and finally they will each be flowered with 600w lamps. Really it's about economics and energy efficiency more than anything else.

The "Left" side of the growroom:
2'x4' Ebb & Flow tray
Advanced Nutrients Sensi 2 part as the base nutrients.
Big Bud
Overdrive
CarboLoad
Hygrozyme
Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus

Note: I am seasoned at using Advanced Nutrients and this lineup. Hydro has for a long time been my "thing" and I've got it nailed down pretty solid. Although of course I'm sure the road will have bumps, I'm sure I can smooth those bumps fairly efficiently on this side of the growroom.

The "Right" side of the growroom:
6x - 3 Gallon Square Pot
Fox Farms Happy Frog Soil
Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil
Perlite
Fox Farms Base Nutrients (Grow Big, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom)

The Reason:
My very first grow was a soil grow. I grew 2 plants under a 250w HPS Lamp in my closet (Ahh, how far we've come). The product was decent, the plants went yellow really early on and I didn't have any knowledge on how to correct the problem. The plants finished out and I actually got a pretty decent yield for a first grow (about 3 1/2oz's if I remember correctly). I switched to hydro and from then on that's what I've done. I've had my ups and downs with hydro, but I've stuck with it and I've been successful at it. But the debate always comes up of which is better and while hydro seems to be the hands down winner in growth rate and yield over time there seems to be a strong suggestion (to say the least) that the flavor of soil is unmatched by hydro and that they aren't even comparable. Rather than spouting off at the mouth about things I don't really know or understand I've decided to grow side by side soil vs. hydro for my own information, experience and knowledge and also to share with you, the RIU community.

My Plea:
I want this comparison to be as fair and balanced as possible. I have found Fox Farms nutrients soils to be widely accepted as quality products. So I've decided to go out and get what I had available from them, aside from Light Warrior and all of their various "Bloom Enhancers". But that's not to say I won't use any additional products, only that I haven't gotten any at this point.

I am not an experienced soil grower. I need your help to provide you with the information that you want and for the comparison that I know you want to see. No one wants to follow along while I miserably fail at growing soil plants and I go on the rest of my days unfairly bashing soil just because I lacked the knowledge. So please, help me out with the soil half of this.

Here is how I've figured it so far, let me know if you see a flaw or have some suggestions on how it can be done better. I have 20-30 cuttings of Fucking Incredible but the "mothers" haven't been sexed yet so I don't know how many are male and how many are female. I did however number all of the plants and I took 3 cuttings from EACH plant so that as long as I got at least 4 females from the original 12 seeds that were purchased I would be able to complete this grow and complete it fairly. There will be equal plants on both soil and hydro and they will have the same #'s from the mother plants. There are now 8 plants left after killing 2 males and having 2 seeds peter out after germination and they are #1-8 (logically). If 1,3, 4 and 5 are female then I will have a 1,3,4, and 5 in both hydro and soil as well the additional's on each side, if that makes any sense.

I will be able to in the end look and compare #1 to #1 as well as the overall results, but at least when I smoke a #1 from each I know it came from the same genetic mother.


The clones are starting to show roots (I believe 3 or 4 had roots this morning). I plan on using Solo cups at the beginning and using Happy Frog soil not mixed at all with perlite and no nutrients. Just to get them started off on their individual lives nice and easy.

I will then transplant to the 3 gallon pots that I plan to fill with a 50/50 mix of perlite and FFOF. From there it's just getting the watering down and letting them do their thing until they need some additional nutrients which I figure will be at least 4-5 weeks down the road.

I'm going to be using RO water for this grow so I may need to add Cal-Mag to the soil side as I already know the hydro side will need it.

Thanks for your help, thanks for playing along and I hope I can educate, inform and learn with this grow.

I have a link to my current Fucking Incredible Grow Log in my signature, feel free to peak in, they just started 12/12 and should be showing sex in the next couple of days. These are the clone donors, so it's a good way to get a sneak peak.

hydro will always do circles around soil... no competition.

 

[DaveCoulier]

Booo. Ah well. I look forward to seeing this down the line. Im so glad Im high right now, or else Id be really sad

 

[laserbrn]

Booo. Ah well. I look forward to seeing this down the line. Im so glad Im high right now, or else Id be really sad

Well, I'm trying to figure out a way where I'm not screwing myself here. I smoke about an ounce a week and my supply is already running low. I need to make sure I don't have a lapse again in the main 4x4 tent so for now I'm continuing on with the SOIL side of this grow. I am growing them in hydro right now, and the grow behind that grow will be soil.

I don't know what I'm going to do as far as the "side by side" area yet. I am aiming to do the side by side soil vs hydro, but I need a good strain. I'm trying to work some shit out right now, but nontheless I'm going to continue the soil plants and let them veg while my first run is flowering. The plants look pretty good so I'm not sure what to think...only 3 weeks into flower and pretty decent trichome development.