Issues With Prop 19 Solved! Now we can all Support it.

[mr2shim]

Well of course it'll never happen with an attitude like that. Must suck to be such a pessimist. Sorry, I refuse to lower myself to that standard. There have been many studies that prove that optimists live at least 19% longer than pessimists, maybe you should try it!

I also honestly believe that one day Capitalism will fall, like all other empires. You're views are very Americentric. You should look to see whats happening in most parts of Europe (Greece, espically), which gives me great hope for the future. The entire globe isn't America, sorry (at least not yet, I know that the government would love it to be).

I'm not being a pessimist about marijuana. I'm being a realist. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it will be legal and not taxed. That's just retarded. I'm very optimistic, too bad you don't know that.. because you don't know me.

I'm sure it could happen. I know it's not going to happen in this lifetime. People are too greedy. Maybe in a couple hundred years. I'm not going to sit around and wait for that though, so I'll gladly take second best and get legal marijuana that is taxed to shit. That's better than sitting behind bars.

 

[beardo]

I'm not being a pessimist about marijuana. I'm being a realist. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it will be legal and not taxed. That's just retarded. I'm very optimistic, too bad you don't know that.. because you don't know me.

I'm sure it could happen. I know it's not going to happen in this lifetime. People are too greedy. Maybe in a couple hundred years. I'm not going to sit around and wait for that though, so I'll gladly take second best and get legal marijuana that is taxed to shit. That's better than sitting behind bars.

you wouldn't be 'behind bars' now either if caught today with the same amount of marijuana you will be able to posses under prop 19-get real realist- who's lying again? who have you refered to as 'Idiots' and 'retarded'?

 

[Hayduke]

If this is true, then why do you not support P19? P19 makes it legal to grow for your own consumption. It is currently illegal to grow.

Does anyone in Cali really grow without paying the Dr Tax????

Because the people who don't support p19 are idiots. Especially the ones that grow for personal use now.

^^^^^^^^^^^

I've noticed there have been many raids recently here in cali but I believe that is do to the fact the Feds are nervous about this and are feeling the pressure. It's a great thing knowing Prop. 19 will make a law preventing police from ever messing with you or any "lawfully cultivated" cannabis. People that have any kind of relation to cannabis should vote YES! SHAME ON THOSE WHO DON'T!

The Evil Obama called off the goons...hard to disobey the Commander in Chief...the raids are always local...usually a "Joint Task Force" (have to point the finger simultaneously in many directions)...and usually show no Agency identifying markings (SCARY!!!!).

I am a prop215 patient (I actually do have a very real medical condition), so I can already grow legally.

I just see how much harm this bill can do, as opposed to good. I see a lot of people loosing jobs because of it, I see how it is very wishy-washy with wording. I don't like the fact that its being "Taxed, regulated, & CONTROLLED".

I don't really think that the "idea" is to vote in ANY law that concerns cannabis, JUST BECAUSE it involves cannabis. There is a much better bill that could have a shot in 2 years, I can wait for that. I've done my time in jail and know that it sucks to have to wait 2 more years, but hey, you knew from the start that what you were doing was illegal, and that the consquenses for those actions were highly real. I'm not saying that I support locking up and jailing people for doing nothing more than growing a plant, but what I am saying that you knew what you were doing had very real consquences if you were busted. Thats the point of being a political prisoner, unfortunatly, you have to serve time in jail.

I want the plant to be FREE, not "REGULATED AND CONTROLLED". That would REALLY cut out the black market, if thats what the government and the people behind this bill really want to see. If every single person was FREELY allowed to grow and do what they wanted with this plant without capital involved (and "concidently" there is a bill trying to get this to happen in 2012..) This bill is just taking the money away from the "illegal" black market mafia, and putting it into the hands of the "legal" free market Mafia. Sorry, but I am more concerned about what our government can and will do to this plant, than any mom & pop grower. Because the decisions that the government makes effect me (and everyone else) directly, not the profits that growers are getting. I may be idealistic, but I am realistic enough to know that a bill is trying to go on the ballots in 2012 that is 100 times better than prop19. One that will ACTUALLY free the plant (like Jack Herer has supported), not some band aid like this bill is offering that will make the extremely rich richer and the people just getting by poorer. I don't think that the pro-19 crowd really wants to see this plant free, but controlled and regulated, obviously, because that is the bill title that they are voting for. I am not a capitalist, I am an anarchist, sorry.

And if you don't think that by 2012 we will have the numbers to get that bill passed, then you obviously know nothing of human evolution and the "Doubling of Knowledge" as its known in Quantum Mechanics. The world is getting SMARTER as time goes on. Think of how much more freedom we have now as opposed to just 15 years ago, let alone thousands of years ago. Think of all the information that we are being saturated with daily (the internet being an amazing example, anyone can find out anything without any gatekeepers to that information, within a click of a button). And as time goes on we are learning more and more and knowledge keeps getting vaster and vaster. Think of how far we've come just since the 1960's with EVERYTHING (homosexual rights, black rights, womens rights, abortion rights, cannabis rights, drug rights). We are COLLECTIVELY (as a planet) getting SMARTER, not dumber, and we are moving in a direction towards more and more freedom and information. Hell, they have even been approving scientific research into psychedelics. But then again, I am an optimist, sorry that I can't be more pessimistic about the future like most people.

WOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong! Not allowed in some states, and in others you are allowed 100 gallons. >> http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes

"There are still counties/cities that REFUSE prop215 patients and don't allow it in there counties."

Wrong! Every Ca county is in compliance with prop 215. >> http://www.safeaccessnow.net/countyguidelines.htm

Why do you naysayers keep coming with these crappy little lies? It certainly doesn't serve your side very well.....BB

some of the "lies" are just honest mistakes...I brewed my 100 gallons for several years...enjoyed it daily, shared with friends and brew club members, shipped it away to competitions, wasted lots running the taps...and NEVER got close to running out. Also there is no restriction on how I brew...I can brew 2-5 gallon batches several times a year, OR I can brew my 100 gallons all at once...Hell I need more than 25 square feet to brew!!!!

And although 215 should be protecting patients and dispensaries...In several counties (the ones that will not allow 19!!!) they are still busting people...this is not a "Lie"...the "Law" thinks it is above the law...and some DA's support them.

The local clinic was just forced to close after being sued by the City for being a Nuisance in the industrial park where it WAS located...local patients now must travel 25 miles for medicine

Nope, it was all local law enforcement. 100 officers from 2 dozen agencies, to be exact. They don't give a fuck what's "law" and what isn't. "Law" is what the government and enforcement say it is. Their entire clubs were smashed and all product taken. Yeah, they may get it back in courts, but its a hassle, and they had to stay closed for a while. And who would wanna even stay open after something like that? It's scare tactics, and they work great...

http://www.modbee.com/2010/07/01/1234331/8-chico-dispensaries-raided-in.html

an interesting quote from the Modesto Bee article above:

"Maloney said a judge authorized search warrants after people claiming to be medical marijuana patients told authorities that the dispensaries weren't properly verifying customers' physician recommendations for medical pot or 'weren't even asking if they had one.'"

This is interesting...I was reading the few reviews that were posted for a fairly new clinic in Ramona, Ca...I found one very odd...The poster claimed that he was not even asked for ID and felt very unsafe and would not be returning...to which the owner of the Collective vehemently denied.

Looks like it is pretty easy to get a Judge to issue a warrant on the hearsay of people who may or may not, be MMJ patients, or for that matter exist at all.

​

 

[Wheres my Chippy?]

I'm not being a pessimist about marijuana. I'm being a realist. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking it will be legal and not taxed. That's just retarded. I'm very optimistic, too bad you don't know that.. because you don't know me.

I'm sure it could happen. I know it's not going to happen in this lifetime. People are too greedy. Maybe in a couple hundred years. I'm not going to sit around and wait for that though, so I'll gladly take second best and get legal marijuana that is taxed to shit. That's better than sitting behind bars.

Realism only gets you so far. It keeps you trapped in your narrow-reality-tunnel to sit on your hands and keep your head in the sands, so you never really question authority in any true sense of the word. Reality is what you can get away with. Imagine if everyone thought that way "realisticly" we would never have gotten out of the waters and walked on land! We would still be living in the dark ages and still think that the earth is flat, because hey, there is no need to think of anything that can't be "perceived" as "real", its just a distraction. Not too scientific of a mind, chap... Think outside the box, and then realize that their "is" no box at all, but this is a-whole-nother convo...

And who told you to sit around an wait for anything? I told you, take a look at whats happening in Europe (mainly Greece) and then you'll get a picture of what the future holds and what you should do to contribute to it. Don't believe that this is something that is going to happen in a couple hundred years, take a look into Quantum Mechanics, like I said as well, its scientific proof that knowledge is doubling. You say "people are too greedy", again your Ameri-centric POV. Take a look OUTSIDE of America, to get a much better picture of the world. America is in a bubble compared to the rest of the globe as far as progressivism and civil rights goes. When you still have people debating whether Evolution is a "fact" or not says a great deal about the intelligence of a population.

But I also tend to agree with the poster Civil.Disobdience in that voting is a scam, make your own laws.... again, Reality is what you can get away with.

 

[mccumcumber]

Funny thing about most dispensaries, which applies to the dispensaries that got shut down in Butte. They don't have all the required legal work. In Butte's case it's probably a bunch of Chico drop outs trying to get away with stupid shit. If you don't have your correct paperwork your dispensary can and will get shut down. Law enforcement does not like stoners, in fact they hate them. Prop19 kicks cops in the balls. Which I wish I could do on a regular basis.

What's happening in Europe, as far as I can tell, is that countries are going bankrupt. Greece is not in a good situation right now. Our future should not be anywhere near Greece's future though. We have been through some random spending, but not nearly the level that Greece has been through, and our government is not plagued with corruption. Capitalism, though the probably the least sympathetic civic, works because it is basically human nature. Any hominid's number one priority is survival. That's part of our evolutionary DNA. That's why a system that is cutthroat (basically) and absolutely ensures survival for those who can obtain it is so appealing. Any socialist based government does not work because human's innate response to any situation is: "How can I benefit," it's not something that humans can easily changed because it has been ingrained in our mind through evolution. It's what kept us alive when there was no technology.

You keep bringing up quantum mechanics, but that has nothing to do with the statement that knowledge is doubling. Knowledge is doubling is just a simple scientific phenomina that has to do with populations. It's more of a statistics based argument than anything else. You are misinterpreting Schrodinger's equation (I believe that's the closest thing in Quantum that you're talking about.) They used this info now on modern day computers called quantum computers which makes them extremely efficient. It has nothing to do with the statistical anomaly that exponential growth causes doubling knowledge, that is not quantum mechanics, that is statistics.

You like to talk out of your ass, and it's really annoying. The fact that more knowledge will be obtained in the future doesn't make the average voter smarter. In fact, the average voter is still as uneducated as ever. Only a small percentage of the population actually contributes to the research that goes on today. What do you do might I ask? Do you think in two years you will benefit society with some revolutionary breakthrough. No, you won't. At least you found your chippy.

 

[Wheres my Chippy?]

Funny thing about most dispensaries, which applies to the dispensaries that got shut down in Butte. They don't have all the required legal work. In Butte's case it's probably a bunch of Chico drop outs trying to get away with stupid shit. If you don't have your correct paperwork your dispensary can and will get shut down. Law enforcement does not like stoners, in fact they hate them. Prop19 kicks cops in the balls. Which I wish I could do on a regular basis.

What's happening in Europe, as far as I can tell, is that countries are going bankrupt. Greece is not in a good situation right now. Our future should not be anywhere near Greece's future though. We have been through some random spending, but not nearly the level that Greece has been through, and our government is not plagued with corruption. Capitalism, though the probably the least sympathetic civic, works because it is basically human nature. Any hominid's number one priority is survival. That's part of our evolutionary DNA. That's why a system that is cutthroat (basically) and absolutely ensures survival for those who can obtain it is so appealing. Any socialist based government does not work because human's innate response to any situation is: "How can I benefit," it's not something that humans can easily changed because it has been ingrained in our mind through evolution. It's what kept us alive when there was no technology.

You keep bringing up quantum mechanics, but that has nothing to do with the statement that knowledge is doubling. Knowledge is doubling is just a simple scientific phenomina that has to do with populations. It's more of a statistics based argument than anything else. You are misinterpreting Schrodinger's equation (I believe that's the closest thing in Quantum that you're talking about.) They used this info now on modern day computers called quantum computers which makes them extremely efficient. It has nothing to do with the statistical anomaly that exponential growth causes doubling knowledge, that is not quantum mechanics, that is statistics.

You like to talk out of your ass, and it's really annoying. The fact that more knowledge will be obtained in the future doesn't make the average voter smarter. In fact, the average voter is still as uneducated as ever. Only a small percentage of the population actually contributes to the research that goes on today. What do you do might I ask? Do you think in two years you will benefit society with some revolutionary breakthrough. No, you won't. At least you found your chippy.

When I say look at Greece, what I mean is look at the REVOLTS in Greece, not the government.... Take a look at the Greece riots of 2009. I don't want socialism either.... I am an anarchist, as I've already pointed out....

I won't respond to much else of what you say, because that is your opinion if thats how you look at evolution (which you are only looking at the very hunter-gatherer base of it, humanity SHOULD have evolved past that and we ARE continuing to evolve, but governments aren't allowing it much) Take a look at Leary's 8 circuit Model of Consciousness for a better example of what I'm getting at.

Also, I am a clinical psychoanalyst who mainly specializes with Jungian/Reichian techniques, with an extreme bent towards Occult practices, so I just might benefit society with some revolutionary breakthrough, you never know! I've already done many peer-reviewed journals for colleagues, and even co-authored a book of radical sociology! What do you do might I ask? It seems you know a little about Schrodingers Cat, but not much at all if thats all you think its good for is computers. Notice how I've never once attacked anyone specifically on here, yet you and other pro19 have given direct insults towards me and other no-voters, shows how caring you all are! See, you are looking at the here & now, I am looking at the future of evolution! S.M.I2.L.E.!

 

[mccumcumber]

As it so happens I'm an applied mathematics major with an emphasis in Astro physics, I'm a third year at the moment. Sch's cat has everything to do with quantum computer. Look them up. I only attacked you b/c I felt that you kept on spewing out irrelevant arguments. I admit I was wrong to do that, it was very immature of me, and I'm sorry.
However I don't want to have an argument with you that has nothing to do with 19, it's a waste of both of our time. I feel like neither of us are going to come an agreement on 19 though, so I opt to agree to disagree.

 

[beardo]

Law enforcement does not like stoners, in fact they hate them. Prop19 kicks cops in the balls. Which I wish I could do on a regular basis.

I didn't know prop 19 was the kick cops in the balls bill. I thought prop 19 was for TAXING AND CONTROLLING marijuana which would give the police more ainti marijuana laws to enforce

 

[Dan Kone]

I didn't know prop 19 was the kick cops in the balls bill. I thought prop 19 was for TAXING AND CONTROLLING marijuana which would give the police more ainti marijuana laws to enforce

If what you are saying is even remotely true, then the majority of cops would support it. Instead they have strongly opposed it.

Again, you know what you're saying is bullshit, but you keep saying it because you're trying to scare people into supporting prohibition.

If you oppose prop 19 you are siding with cops and the DEA to support prohibition. Scaring people based on misleading information into siding with the DEA is shameful. You should be embarrassed.

 

[nathenking]

If what you are saying is even remotely true, then the majority of cops would support it. Instead they have strongly opposed it.

Again, you know what you're saying is bullshit, but you keep saying it because you're trying to scare people into supporting prohibition.

If you oppose prop 19 you are siding with cops and the DEA to support prohibition. Scaring people based on misleading information into siding with the DEA is shameful. You should be embarrassed.

I oppose prop 19, but I do not support prohibiton or side with any form of law enforcement....And i assume beardo does as well... i cant figure out how you can lump us in with everyone who opposes' is, that is not like you at all... I dont support prop 19 because its a piece of SHIT bill that only hinders the REAL movement.... Not just the tax and control movement.... And the whole scaring people thing is just way off base Dan, the people who allow them selves to be scared are just that, allowing themselves.... true direction comes from inside the mind... everything else is just accessory brudda....

 

[Weedoozie]

So did Ammiano's amendments pass yet?

 

[beardo]

So did Ammiano's amendments pass yet?

No It wouldn't be up for a vote untill after prop 19 passes then it would need a 2/3rds majority vote

 

[Weedoozie]

No It wouldn't be up for a vote untill after prop 19 passes then it would need a 2/3rds majority vote

damn...wish I had a little psychic premonition ability right now...

 

[beardo]

I oppose prop 19, but I do not support prohibiton or side with any form of law enforcement....And i assume beardo does as well... i cant figure out how you can lump us in with everyone who opposes' is, that is not like you at all... I dont support prop 19 because its a piece of SHIT bill that only hinders the REAL movement.... Not just the tax and control movement.... And the whole scaring people thing is just way off base Dan, the people who allow them selves to be scared are just that, allowing themselves.... true direction comes from inside the mind... everything else is just accessory brudda....

Thank you.^^ I think california is currently very aceptant of marijuana I think 215 is great and arnolds decrim was a huge step forward. I feel so lucky to be living at this point in the history of the mj movement I could have only dreamed of it becoming as lagitimate as it is now when i was young. It is not perfect their are problems still but for the most part I feel things are pretty good for marijuana users here. I am not trying to scare people-I am the one who is scared not just for myself but for others. I am trying to open thought and debate on the potential impact of 19 on C.A. I wouldn't want to take a step twords opression. I worry that I keep hearing about prop 19 legalize marijuana in C.A. but it is actually tax and controll-which doesnt sound as cool. It seems weird to let citys or counties set taxes or regulate it seems their would be straight numbers for the whole state. I just dont see how creating more laws taxes regulations and restrictions on marijuana will help someone who uses marijuana. If something says marijuana not to be prohibited. I will vote untill then i'm voting no.

 

[gupp]

Thank you.^^ I think california is currently very aceptant of marijuana I think 215 is great and arnolds decrim was a huge step forward. I feel so lucky to be living at this point in the history of the mj movement I could have only dreamed of it becoming as lagitimate as it is now when i was young. It is not perfect their are problems still but for the most part I feel things are pretty good for marijuana users here. I am not trying to scare people-I am the one who is scared not just for myself but for others. I am trying to open thought and debate on the potential impact of 19 on C.A. I wouldn't want to take a step twords opression. I worry that I keep hearing about prop 19 legalize marijuana in C.A. but it is actually tax and controll-which doesnt sound as cool. It seems weird to let citys or counties set taxes or regulate it seems their would be straight numbers for the whole state. I just dont see how creating more laws taxes regulations and restrictions on marijuana will help someone who uses marijuana. If something says marijuana not to be prohibited. I will vote untill then i'm voting no.

Let's clear this up, you are for prop 215 and against criminalization. But you dislike prop 19.

 

[mr2shim]

Let's clear this up, you are for prop 215 and against criminalization. But you dislike prop 19.

I think he dislikes prop 19 because of the taxes, control and regulation. IMO, that isn't a good enough reason to vote no but nevertheless it's his choice.

 

[REALSTYLES]

I'm for prop 215 and not 19 for it's control over my medicine point blank. All who are for it are the ones who can't get their rec so they want to fuck it up for everybody who has one and what will you do if 19 passes and it's bullshit?

 

[gupp]

I'm not sure there's much to lose, honestly.

 

[mr2shim]

I'm for prop 215 and not 19 for it's control over my medicine point blank. All who are for it are the ones who can't get their rec so they want to fuck it up for everybody who has one and what will you do if 19 passes and it's bullshit?

um,. I can tell you really don't know what you're talking about so I'll simply say this. Prop 19 does not affect Prop 215. You should read it.

Some people will argue that it will affect people who sell marijuana now under the table. I'm sure it will, but they're breaking the law by selling their medical to people who don't have a medical card. The arguments are endless really, if you want to be stupid and babble bullshit, don't read the bill. If you actually want to make the right choice, read it.

FAQ
http://yeson19.com/node/97

 

[beardo]

Let's clear this up, you are for prop 215 and against criminalization. But you dislike prop 19.

you have my stance right