tafbang
Well-Known Member
that guy has a beautiful place! he better watchout though as it will collapse as nothing is holding it up but air... derrrr
Shipping Container As An Underground grow
- Thread starter loaded dervish
- Start date
that guy has a beautiful place! he better watchout though as it will collapse as nothing is holding it up but air... derrrr
budlover13
King Tut
It's been a long time since I went on the tour and my 11 year old son and wife never have so I think we're planning a trip this spring.
budlover13
King Tut
Sure, as a matter of fact, as you read this, I'll shoot off the request. I'm positive we'll go this spring unless admission is just stupid expensive. It's always intrigued me because I was born and raised here and to see someone build not just a home, but his entire estate gardens, courtyard, etc out of nothing but native soils and rocks and did it underground non the less! The only bad part is it's guided tour only so I can't blaze in an unserground courtyard while soaking in the beauty. Oh well, that's what the parking lot is for before we go in. I might even take a short t-break leading up to the trip.
lowerarchy
Active Member
It's worth quoting this link www.runkleconsulting.com/Shipping%20Container%20Houses/ShippingContainerHouseEngineering.htm at length. This company only does shipping container architecture.
So yeah, there ya go. Now there's some shit about shit, short term no problem, long term stupid idea.A question I keep getting asked over and over again is: "Can I bury a shipping container to make an underground structure, or a basement?". The short answer is no. The reason is two fold, corrosion and structure. Constant contact with soil will give you serious corrosion problems over time, the steel is relatively light gauge for burying. You would have to put in cathodic protection to slow the corrosion, and you would still have problems, as has been discovered with buried fuel tanks over the years. The second is structural, it doesn't work. The loads on the sides are extreme, and I actually ran the calculations. Here is a graphic of the results:
Everything with a stress ratio over "1.0" is a failure, and as you can see, the sides fail by an order of magnitude of 1.7 to 1.9. That's a soil loading using soil and an angle of internal friction of about 30 degrees for all you engineers out there, which is silty sand (SM). That is an equivalent fluid pressure of 35 PSF, which is not as bad as you can get in some soil conditions.
Unfortunately, this won't put this issue to rest I'm sure. I get e-mails about burying these things all the time, and my answer is the same every time (no). Then the person will ask the question in a different manner hoping for the answer he or she wants. The laws of gravity, the strength of materials, and corrosion potential of steel doesn't change because your words do. It will still fail. You can modify the container to make it work, but it would be cheaper to pour a concrete wall. It will still corrode.
I have been asked about using aluminum containers underground. The container would still be too week, the modifications needed would be even more extremely expensive, and it still wouldn't be any better than a concrete wall and would cost you much more.
So, to conclude, you can not bury a container.
tafbang
Well-Known Member
So you're saying it'll work for years... cool, thanks.
http://thumb1.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/62246/62246,1182931644,1/stock-photo-stack-of-sea-container-in-the-port-of-hamburg-it-is-the-central-hub-for-trade-with-eastern-and-3617224.jpg
http://headlamppictures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/P1000196s.jpg
http://www.picturenation.co.uk/image/view/preview/140145/container-haulage-transport
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikebaird/3898801499/
those are packed with goods. so that solves your crying about 2 ft of dirt on top of you storage container
You don't have to let dirt touch your container... if you want to have it last for generations
http://thumb1.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/62246/62246,1182931644,1/stock-photo-stack-of-sea-container-in-the-port-of-hamburg-it-is-the-central-hub-for-trade-with-eastern-and-3617224.jpg
http://headlamppictures.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/P1000196s.jpg
http://www.picturenation.co.uk/image/view/preview/140145/container-haulage-transport
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikebaird/3898801499/
those are packed with goods. so that solves your crying about 2 ft of dirt on top of you storage container
You don't have to let dirt touch your container... if you want to have it last for generations
Stonetech
Well-Known Member
I'd just like to say that I've been renting a shipping container for a few years to store my tools/equipment in a storage park and those things are solid as fuck. They might be thin in some spots but there heavily reinforced and ribbed throughout so they can carry thousands of pounds and be stacked on top of eachother. Not to mention how heavy the doors are it is like a vault. You could EASILY bury them under just about anything, I can't even begin to think of something better or stronger for such a purpose. Not for the same price anyway($1500-2000 CAN where I live).
Also, as I am in construction, I would like to weigh in on some of the other variables.
First off I'm going to assume that the property is an acreage or something because no one in their right mind would attempt this in a heavily populated area.
Locating the utilities. I have to do this alot as I work mostly in residential. In Canada its a free service, you call the 1-800-number and ask them to come locate your utilities, thats it. No one asks any questions. Almost always the utilities are coming from the house and going towards the road/street.
I personally would use a bobcat to excavate the hole (which is only about $200-300/ day to rent). The bobcat is a much more versatile machine and requires less skill to operate than a hoe. You could use the bobcat to excavate, backfill, load any earth to haul out/spread out, depending on how big the property was. You could probably even be able to get the sea can in the hole with one bobcat, otherwise you will need a second. I myself have helped someone pick up and move a container with two machines.
Also you would definitely need a sump system for the container otherwise it would fill with water. this would definitely be easier with a hoe, just a minihoe ($300-400/day. The system itself would cost about $1000 for materials.
So all in all it would run you about $4000 and be a 2-4 day job depending on experience. Keep in mind this is just to bury the container and nothing else. I don't know enough about growing to estimate the cost of the rest of the setup.
Is it worth it? FUCK YEAH. It seems like a small price to pay for a massive secret underground growshow, if you got the cash. There's guys lighting up rental properties that cost almost that much a month.
Stonetech
Well-Known Member
Oops, i forgot about the corrosion. It would probaly take about five years for this to become a factor but there are things you could do to slow it down even further. I would probably backfill the container with clear/washed rock so they're wouldn't be much moisture against the outer walls. In addition to a sump that would probably add 10 years to its life.
tafbang
Well-Known Member
along with that you could also reinforce cement, clay, or whatever to surround/thicken. I don't know much about what products to use as I'm no construction expert. but you can definitely hold off corrosion for decades with a few minor things. maybe some paste? either way. the guy mentioned before with an underground garden and house inside of dirt. you could easily just make a underground cave like he did and put the container in there... I mean come on. this guy had an underground home of 10acres that he dug up himself
mike bloomberg
Member
What about just calling some professionals to build you a normal bomb shelter?
tafbang
Well-Known Member
probably the best idea. we are all thinking overboard. bombshelters usually have running water and all that built in. at least the one in the movie with Brendan Frazier
budlover13
King Tut
I just saw a documentary about bomb shelters and their resurgence in America today. The company they were showing makes everything from small, 2 man shelters all the way up to shelters that can keep 300 people alive, underground, for a year. Included, a gymnasium, weightroom, and lap pool. Just the fact that a lot of people are buying them and they come with a built-in cover story is almost enough to say just go with that. Some of the shelters they were building were better than most modern tract homes you find today!
budlover13
King Tut
Although, I guess you could use that cover story while using a shipping container as well. To make it believable though, you would need to encase it in concrete as a normal bomb shelter would be.
budlover13
King Tut
Well, most shelters are designed to survive a nuclear blast set off within 1 mile so you might have a chance against the meteor depending on how close it struck. As for flooding, you better have one hell of a tall intake vent! I think the hardest part would be trying to pull things back together and survive the adter effects. I think "out there" sometimes too, I just justify it by pointing to men like Albert Einstein who many considered a nut. There is a FINE line between brilliance and insanity!
Jefferstone
Well-Known Member
How can you read that entire post and miss the part where the guy says "No"? They are built to stack. They are built to be as light as possible while withstanding stacking. They aren't built to withstand the pressures necessary to be a buried grow room. Sure you could pour concrete around them, reinforce them with extra steel, you could gold plate them if you like, but what is the fucking point? It isn't a feasible solution.
budlover13
King Tut
Google a Candian Grow Bust with Shipping containers. It WAS done. 20 of them hooked together. Physics says it can be done too. And arch is the most stable option, but the containers will work just fine. I plan on using containers, but since I'm an MMJ patient in Cali, I won't bother burying them(2 or 3). When one considers gravity and the forces of, the majority of the load comes from above, not the sides. I would say that a container would be fine underground. Don't think I'd push my luck with a pool, but underground is fine. Throw some steel beams along the side if you're worried about collapse. Why not get a legal permit to guild a detatched garage our out-building and either put the containers in that once inspected and approve, or put it underground below it and have a stealth access?
budlover13
King Tut
You are correct that they are made to stack, vertical, as gravity dictates(unless you get into large land surveys where you must consider the curvature of the earth and therefor the affects). NO engineer that I have EVER heard of has yet to dispute the fact than with normal atmospheric pressure, on the surface(or within 20 ft of it), gravity acts as a downward force. Not a surrounding pressure that would compress from the side(as in the depths of the ocean).