Question My Beliefs, But Be Prepared To Answer For Yours :)

[olylifter420]

i believe in living life as simple as possible. Making life to complicated to me just slows everything down and makes you blind to what is really going on around you.

 

[Heisenberg]

i think it is in most cultures because its a part of being human. when we believe in karma/luck, we tend to concentrate on the positive. we remember the outcomes that worked in our favor(supposedly coming from our own actions), and forget the ones that dont. with the ones that dont work in our favor, we tend to dismiss it for one reason or another. so maybe that belief in karma overrides the logical connection between two events.

This is the answer I was looking for. You are describing two different errors here. The first is confirmation bias, which as you said causes us to remember the hits and dismiss the misses. The second is apophenia, which is the human tendency to see patterns in random data. Apophenia leads to a common fallacy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc; Latin for 'after this therefore because of this'. Good job!

 

[Luger187]

This is the answer I was looking for. You are describing two different errors here. The first is confirmation bias, which as you said causes us to remember the hits and dismiss the misses. The second is apophenia, which is the human tendency to see patterns in random data. Apophenia leads to a common fallacy known as post hoc ergo propter hoc; Latin for 'after this therefore because of this'. Good job!

wooh! gold star for me!
i didnt know about that apophenia

i learned a ton about the brains decision making processes from this book. i learned about it from someone on this site, idk who though. its good shit
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-we-decide-jonah-lehrer/1100042900?ean=9780594012108&itm=1&usri=how+we+decide

 

[karri0n]

What does it mean to question the beliefs you hold most true?

This is a difficult question to quantify - the beliefs I hold most true are things like the fact that the sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening. If we're talking strictly spiritual beliefs here(which I don't think we are, since as an atheist you would hold few if any "spiritual" beliefs), Then to me questioning is the backbone of my beliefs. How are we to learn more if we never aks questions? I always question, always seek to learn and improve. I also deeply enjoy finding synchronicities between various belief systems, to compare and take note of how it is that multiple cultures approach something from drastically different directions and end up with similar answers.

How do you do it? Are there guidelines to follow? Is there a right or wrong way?

Everything should be approached with skepticism, and sources should be verified. If one source says something, and thought experiments, critical thinking, and other evidence(if available) show otherwise, then the problem needs to be researched further, and the claim must be put aside.

Why do you believe the things you do?

Based on training, education, research, and my own experiences.

How do you know they're true?

Nothing can be proven, but for me personally, the exact process by which things are evaluated to be true or false is based on quite a large number of variables. Evaluation of evidence is one way to put it simply, but that process in itself is quite complex, as is the criteria for what counts as "evidence".

If they weren't true, how would it change your life?

I would be compelled to seek the truth, although I like to keep on the up and up, and it would be quite disconcerting to me if I found myself in a position of having zero understanding of the working of the world and laws of nature.

Would you be willing to change what you believe to be true for what actually is true, even if it meant it would shatter that which you held to be most true your whole life?

I'm not sure "willing to change what I believe" would be the right way to put this.... I don't feel that a person can "choose" what they believe(which has been covered and beaten to death in a previous thread). If I discovered something that was true, I wouldn't have a choice but to believe it. If it is in contrast with something that I have preconceptions of, it would be uncomfortable for me during the period between which the preconception was disproven and the new idea was established and proven, as I like to know what's going on.

What's more important to you, the truth, or your comfort and peace of mind?

I'm most comfortable and at peace if I know the truth.

There is no hidden agenda, no alterior motive.. None of that. This is just a thread from a guy who, dispite having a difficult time understanding, is interested in these things. Can't we have one of these conversations, just one time, where nobody argues or insults someone else? Can this thread prove it? I'd like to say it can be done, but my experience says otherwise, and I'm not saying I'm innocent of this either, but come on people, keep your composure, stay calm, relax, think. This stuff is not personal, don't make it personal. None of us know each other, what do you have to get upset about?

I'd +rep if it let me


So this is how we do this, I'm going to be score keeper, everytime someone bitches, moans, whines, cries or complains about something unjustly, the topic of the thread at the time will be paused, it'll be pointed out, and we will take a vote, if 5 people agree the bitching/moaning/whining/crying/complaining is unwarranted, the other side will get a point. There are two sides, believers, nonbelievers. This doesn't make us advasaries, it makes us partners, working together, to answer the same questions.

I'm in.

I think this will be an interesting little addition to the normal stuff, so lets make it happen, do it the right way, follow the instructions, and if you have any more questions you are genuinely curious about, ASK THEM!


[/QUOTE]

Cool thread idea.

 

[karri0n]

You mischaracterize the OP, you misuse and misunderstand the word bias, you are a complainer and a whiner and have added nothing of substance to this discussion. I think the only reason you are posting is to create these red herrings in order to derail this thread that you dislike. Forget about what Pad said, I think you are unteachable and I would prefer if you GTFO. Obviously you can stay if you want, it's just my preference as I rather have this conversation with people that actually reads and comprehends what others are posting.

+1

Oly, I'm not an atheist. I do believe belief in god as well as Jesus' actual teachings(as long as the other 90% of the bible is not heeded, or is at least approached realistically) are a good thing to live by.

However, I have spent the past hour reading this thread, and What I see is this:

The Atheists following the rules and trying their hardest(commendably I might add) to have a decent conversation with you, and

You becoming both defensive and agressive, all the while complaining about a bias which, while it does reside in the hearts and minds of many of the people you are trashing in this thread, is neither inherent in the OP, the game the OP has presented, or even the replies which you have been given. I haven't once seen anyone in this thread defame your beliefs in any way, or even attempt to disprove your belief in god.

What I HAVE noticed is that I'm needing to skip over large chunks of the thread as 90% of them are either by you or directed at you, and all consist of argumentation and are not at all helpful to the discussion.

Please Oly, I implore you. When posting in threads such as this, do not bring up things such as "you had an attitude in this other thread I saw once". Instead, please just answer the questions in a non-argumentative fashion, and don't say things like "the question is biased".

I am interested in hearing your actual answers to the questions being posed, such as how you examine beliefs and what leads you to conclusions that you make.

 

[karri0n]

when you take a shit, do you look at the paper after wiping?

I do. Are you not supposed to? How do you know you are clean if you do not?

 

[Luger187]

I do. Are you not supposed to? How do you know you are clean if you do not?

have a friend check for you?

 

[Heisenberg]

What I HAVE noticed is that I'm needing to skip over large chunks of the thread as 90% of them are either by you or directed at you, and all consist of argumentation and are not at all helpful to the discussion.

I do not disagree with you, but I did notice that, until you came along, this discussion lost it's momentum as the antagonist stopped posting. It seems conflict is what drives these discussions.

 

[Luger187]

I do not disagree with you, but I did notice that, until you came along, this discussion lost it's momentum as the antagonist stopped posting. It seems conflict is what drives these discussions.

yeah lol after the arguing stopped this thread went dead for like 2 days.

i thought of this earlier. what is with the human fascination with clothes? are we genetically 'programmed'(bad word) to want clothes on? maybe we feel uncomfortable being naked in public because back in the day we would die without any. over time, this made us inherently want clothes on.
actually kids we tend to want to be naked. so maybe it is a learned social behavior.

thoughts?

 

[wiseguy316]

Another jewish fairy tale book thread....lol....really

 

[Luger187]

Another jewish fairy tale book thread....lol....really

oly was the one who brought religion into this. its about beliefs in general, not just religion

 

[mexiblunt]

I do not disagree with you, but I did notice that, until you came along, this discussion lost it's momentum as the antagonist stopped posting. It seems conflict is what drives these discussions.

I does. But it also doesn't have to. Momentum is picking back up. I too had a post all typed up and mis-clicked something poof gone, I have gained alot from this thread, been thinking bout some of this stuff all week. I too am a poker player with some supertitions. Def less now than than last week.(only play on the weekends lately) It is a small example, but on that point, thinking about beliefs and the questions in the op takes time to digest sometimes. I always seem to go thru periods of understanding then re-evaluating over a number of weeks. Sometimes life happens and one doesn't always have time to just sit and reflect. And at the same time that very reflection helps life happen better. Not going anywhere and looking forward to add more to this thread.

The train keeps rolling....

 

[wiseguy316]

oly was the one who brought religion into this. its about beliefs in general, not just religion

good that works much better for me. thanks for the heads up.

 

[Heisenberg]

yeah lol after the arguing stopped this thread went dead for like 2 days.

i thought of this earlier. what is with the human fascination with clothes? are we genetically 'programmed'(bad word) to want clothes on? maybe we feel uncomfortable being naked in public because back in the day we would die without any. over time, this made us inherently want clothes on.
actually kids we tend to want to be naked. so maybe it is a learned social behavior.

thoughts?

Hrmm well I don't think fascination with clothes is inherit to the human experience. Some tribes don't seem to pay much attention to clothing, and Tarzan sure didn't put a lot of thought into fashion. Many people take a practical approach to clothes. They wear them for warmth, or even just for something to protect the dangley parts. Fashion is mostly about expression and status; one being genuine and the other pretentious. But I don't think the inclination to cover nudity in public stems from anything other than learned courtesy and/or shame.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I can't understand how some people could believe a creature like bigfoot exists. Wouldn't we have some kind of skeleton from a dead bigfoot by now?

 

[Luger187]

I can't understand how some people could believe a creature like bigfoot exists. Wouldn't we have some kind of skeleton from a dead bigfoot by now?

yeah i would think so. unless they bury their dead!

i also think the loch ness monster is crazy too. theres a lot of people that have supposedly seen it, and the myth goes back in history for a long time. i think i remember hearing there are caves underwater in that loch. not sure if its true. that body of water is huge too. that would be crazy if it really did exist, just like bigfoot. somehow theyve been hiding all this time lol

 

[Padawanbater2]

I think the only things we haven't seen on Earth are small animals you'd find in rainforests or sea caves, shit like that..

 

[RawBudzski]

& microbial life deep within the planet of course. <3

I think the only things we haven't seen on Earth are small animals you'd find in rainforests or sea caves, shit like that..

but you are correct.. deep sea & deep forest creatures.. (bigfoot included *thats for you pada) are probably all that has eluded us. ^_^

 

[Padawanbater2]

Know what I just thought of?

So do creationists believe the animals we discover each year, somewhere along the lines of 300-500, completely new species', have actually been around since the beginning of creation and man is just coming across them now? They don't believe new species' can emerge in the animal kingdom, right? And they don't believe we've witnessed one species change into another species (flies), right?

So what's going on here? How do most of us think it's acceptable to just straight up be like "I don't agree with reality because of my religious belief"?

 

[RawBudzski]

Boggles my mind sometimes. I asked a very closed minded friend once why we can see the moon & why it shines @ night.. His reply was "because it's a star". from that point on, I realized everyone is not equal.

Know what I just thought of?

So do creationists believe the animals we discover each year, somewhere along the lines of 300-500, completely new species', have actually been around since the beginning of creation and man is just coming across them now? They don't believe new species' can emerge in the animal kingdom, right? And they don't believe we've witnessed one species change into another species (flies), right?

So what's going on here? How do most of us think it's acceptable to just straight up be like "I don't agree with reality because of my religious belief"?