A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain
- Thread starter PetFlora
- Start date
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Yes, I kinda figured the streetlight was a personal issue
. If your variables are well controlled sometimes it is just fickle genetics.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
PS: No worries. I took 4 clones off the bigger female, plus have 2 others that are showing different genetics to consider cloning
Hey, here's a cheap UFO 90- $145!
If I didn't already own a UFO 90 dual band (paid Fn $360 2 years ago ARRRRRRG), I would get one of these for clones/seedlings
Good for 2 x 2 x ? closet grow
http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=524
They have lots of cool stuff on sale
Hey, here's a cheap UFO 90- $145!
If I didn't already own a UFO 90 dual band (paid Fn $360 2 years ago ARRRRRRG), I would get one of these for clones/seedlings
Good for 2 x 2 x ? closet grow
http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=524
They have lots of cool stuff on sale
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Good things are happening in the hpa- root hairs! Still dialing in the cycle but seeing some root hairs at 1/1:30, however, in hopes of more RHs I just reduced to 1 sec/1:25. Once it's obvious enough to take a pic I will.
The 2 HPA plants now have lots of small cribs developing. I have pollen from the true male to recross a couple branches on my BK1 + Indica cross.
My F & D keeps humming along.
So today, all is well in the grow room
FYI www.ledwholesale.com has lots of 'sale' goodies like 2 X 2 tents @ $79, similar pricing on 4 X 4 and 4 X 5. I am ordering a 2 X 2 to replace the too small wooden closet that I was gifted 2 years ago
The 2 HPA plants now have lots of small cribs developing. I have pollen from the true male to recross a couple branches on my BK1 + Indica cross.
My F & D keeps humming along.
So today, all is well in the grow room
FYI www.ledwholesale.com has lots of 'sale' goodies like 2 X 2 tents @ $79, similar pricing on 4 X 4 and 4 X 5. I am ordering a 2 X 2 to replace the too small wooden closet that I was gifted 2 years ago
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Here's a simple explanation of plant physiology. Link provided by TB 
Oxygen is the most important root requirement because the roots need oxygen to convert sugar to energy. The more oxygen available to the roots, the more energy they can transfer to the plant.
Oxygen is the most important root requirement because the roots need oxygen to convert sugar to energy. The more oxygen available to the roots, the more energy they can transfer to the plant.
Temperature also affects root growth and function. The roots do a great deal of their storage developing at night when the green sections of the plant are not being pressured by the light to produce and distribute the day's excess sugar to the roots. Roots function more efficiently when they are warm, so roots in warm dark period develop better structures than those grown in cool dark period. As an illustration, a cycle of warm dark 77°F (25°C) and day 59°F (15°C) would develop better roots than a cycle of cool dark 59°F (15°C) and day 77°F (25°C). In essence, plants will grow better with a high average 24-hour root temperature that is constant rather than fluctuating.
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/hydroponic-plant-parts.php
At the bottom of this page you can link to other articles. Reading this Cloning article now
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/hydroponic-cloning.php
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/hydroponic-plant-parts.php
At the bottom of this page you can link to other articles. Reading this Cloning article now
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/hydroponic-cloning.php
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
^^^^^great links Pet........So how's nute buildup on the lava rocks in your FD?, wondering due to it's porous nature, no issues(ph/lockouts)?.......
Yeah I've been a dirt(for my personal meds) guy for a long time due to the taste(debatable) and have been bubbling(O2) my water cans since I learned this technique from one of my Profs
Yeah I've been a dirt(for my personal meds) guy for a long time due to the taste(debatable) and have been bubbling(O2) my water cans since I learned this technique from one of my Profs
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Salt build up/lockout is primarily due to high ppms. I am seeing proof that even in F & D you don't need more than 400 in veg and 800 in full on bloom.
One can also easily flood a long cycle with 10% nute water to clean the rocks. Simply plug the drain and let it sit for ~ 10 minutes before draining.
My set up allows for easy swapping of rez. I simply disconnect the pvc going to the table replace it with a short length pvc + elbow to divert nutes to an empty pail
Oh, I run Oxystone in my rezes too
One can also easily flood a long cycle with 10% nute water to clean the rocks. Simply plug the drain and let it sit for ~ 10 minutes before draining.
My set up allows for easy swapping of rez. I simply disconnect the pvc going to the table replace it with a short length pvc + elbow to divert nutes to an empty pail
Oh, I run Oxystone in my rezes too
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
cfls work fine for cloning. That covers the cheap side of the equation. Understand if you want more for veg, but might wanna try a few for that and see if you can get away with it too? I grew one about 3x2 in a trashcan lined with tinfoil once while living in NY with only 2 cfl's and the stretch wasn't so bad actually all things considered that I used them from start to finish.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Yeah i've been lurking that site for some time/ great diy kits with top led bins.......win win.............
I always wondered what a couple of those all white par bulbs(easy install/cheap) would do for a veg/clone light........but I just bought a new toy and funds are tight atm.....any pics on your girls progression???
be safe and happy growing
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
It was you who turned me on to them! I'm leaning this way (assuming the heat sink is predrilled) http://www.rapidled.com/plug-and-play-biocube-14-retrofit-kit-with-two-dimmable-drivers/ or http://www.rapidled.com/plug-and-play-biocube-14-retrofit-kit-with-two-dimmable-drivers/ here I would replace most of the Blues with Cree Warm White
I don't think the fans are needed for us. It does require a hanging hook set, which they offer. They also sell pre-drilled heat sinks of various lengths
Plants Update:
HPA: I wish I had a macro lens to show off all the new purdy white roots & root hairs. Both plants are expressing the male Indica side; squat < 20". Lots of short side branches, mostly down low.
F & D: This one is expressing her mothers sat heritage; ~ 3ft tall X ~ 2ft 5" in diameter. Very long side branches many already 1ft+
Look for new pics by Friday
Hey check out the prices on these tents a 2 X 4 is only $78! http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=87
I don't think the fans are needed for us. It does require a hanging hook set, which they offer. They also sell pre-drilled heat sinks of various lengths
Plants Update:
HPA: I wish I had a macro lens to show off all the new purdy white roots & root hairs. Both plants are expressing the male Indica side; squat < 20". Lots of short side branches, mostly down low.
F & D: This one is expressing her mothers sat heritage; ~ 3ft tall X ~ 2ft 5" in diameter. Very long side branches many already 1ft+
Look for new pics by Friday
Hey check out the prices on these tents a 2 X 4 is only $78! http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=87
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Although I had planned to wait until Friday, one of the crosses is growing so fast (>30") that I had to snap her to keep the light level with the next tallest plant (20").
Below are pics of all 3 plants (from same mother/father) showing 3 distinct expressions of the same cross. 3 & 4 are the cross that most looks like the mother (although I can see the Indica being expressed via the barrel shape; pic 4 shows where I snapped her (20"), but the snap is in the background, barely visible.
In pic #1 the plant on the right (20") has 4-5" branches, whereas the branches on the left are < 3". Also, of the 3 crosses, only the 20" has 9 leaf blades, the other two are 7 blade.
Here are the roots from the small 2, in hpa. Since I don't have a macro lens the root hairs are hard to see.
OK, I cropped and enlarged to show off the root hairs
Below are pics of all 3 plants (from same mother/father) showing 3 distinct expressions of the same cross. 3 & 4 are the cross that most looks like the mother (although I can see the Indica being expressed via the barrel shape; pic 4 shows where I snapped her (20"), but the snap is in the background, barely visible.
In pic #1 the plant on the right (20") has 4-5" branches, whereas the branches on the left are < 3". Also, of the 3 crosses, only the 20" has 9 leaf blades, the other two are 7 blade.
Here are the roots from the small 2, in hpa. Since I don't have a macro lens the root hairs are hard to see.
OK, I cropped and enlarged to show off the root hairs
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I would rather snap than top, especially with this strain. Last grow I snapped the mother at about the same place; she grew another 3 ft after the snap! All of that was within 4" of the bulbs 
Unfortunately, that was when my pH meter started giving false readings resulting in me way over adjusting down. I burned half of her up from the inside out 
before getting a replacement pH meter that worked. However, I have a 20" clone of her in late flower now
Unfortunately, that was when my pH meter started giving false readings resulting in me way over adjusting down. I burned half of her up from the inside out before getting a replacement pH meter that worked. However, I have a 20" clone of her in late flower now
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Over the years I see light and nutrient questions answered by people who regurgitate bad intel (411).
Lighting schedules, much like NPK ratios are full of disinfo. Those who are followers do so without bothering to do their own research, so they get what they deserve- less than great results
Lighting Schedules
18/6 & 12/12 light schedules, which are old wives tales based on...who the fuck knows? Plants can only utilize ~ 14 hours of light energy per day. To give them more is simply a waste of electricity ($$$);
12/12 is confusing to the plant as it needs more dark period during flower. Will it flower? Of course, but is it ideal? NO! I drop from 14/10 to 12/12 for ~ 5 days, then drop to 11/13 to finish. I plan to add IR on a separate timer to give them ~ 10- 30 minutes (wattage dependent) immediately at lights off. This fools the plant to continue growing without wasting electricity/ bulb life.
NPK
First, people use way more nutes than plants require. Bloom boosters are just another way to rob uneducated growers of their hard earned cash. Yes plants require 'more' PK during flower, BUT not from boosters, and nowhere near the ridiculous amounts of booster products.
Rule of thumb for hydro/aero is < 400ppms during veg. I bumped this to ~600 once the plants hit 12"; without changing to flower nutes or changing the light schedule; within 7 days the plants began sexing!, so I dropped back < 400 and sexing stopped
What was different? The percentage of PK was increased (~ 30%), but in proportion to N requirements. Plus it can't be emphasized enough, mj does not need higher P than N. Doing so sets up the possibility of nutrient lock out. How often have you seen cries for help "What's wrong with my plants? Especially in RDWC
i recently found out about a dry mix on an RIU thread to use for both Veg and Flower. The science he uses is the science I learned in the last 2 years from studying/researching DIY nutes. www.hydro-research.com.
Both of these will save you money and improve on your plants health/yield.
Lighting schedules, much like NPK ratios are full of disinfo. Those who are followers do so without bothering to do their own research, so they get what they deserve- less than great results
Lighting Schedules
18/6 & 12/12 light schedules, which are old wives tales based on...who the fuck knows? Plants can only utilize ~ 14 hours of light energy per day. To give them more is simply a waste of electricity ($$$);
12/12 is confusing to the plant as it needs more dark period during flower. Will it flower? Of course, but is it ideal? NO! I drop from 14/10 to 12/12 for ~ 5 days, then drop to 11/13 to finish. I plan to add IR on a separate timer to give them ~ 10- 30 minutes (wattage dependent) immediately at lights off. This fools the plant to continue growing without wasting electricity/ bulb life.
NPK
First, people use way more nutes than plants require. Bloom boosters are just another way to rob uneducated growers of their hard earned cash. Yes plants require 'more' PK during flower, BUT not from boosters, and nowhere near the ridiculous amounts of booster products.
Rule of thumb for hydro/aero is < 400ppms during veg. I bumped this to ~600 once the plants hit 12"; without changing to flower nutes or changing the light schedule; within 7 days the plants began sexing!, so I dropped back < 400 and sexing stopped
What was different? The percentage of PK was increased (~ 30%), but in proportion to N requirements. Plus it can't be emphasized enough, mj does not need higher P than N. Doing so sets up the possibility of nutrient lock out. How often have you seen cries for help "What's wrong with my plants? Especially in RDWC
i recently found out about a dry mix on an RIU thread to use for both Veg and Flower. The science he uses is the science I learned in the last 2 years from studying/researching DIY nutes. www.hydro-research.com.
Both of these will save you money and improve on your plants health/yield.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^Great info Pet..........less is always more/ biggest mistakes I always see with new growers they try to hard(overnute/overwater).......I've done it too/ I should know better ha
I gotta disagree about plants only needing 14 hrs a day veg(max)........Basically most crop size records in the US where attained in Alaskan summer seasons(last I checked)
Also check garden's cure/ greenpinelane......couple growers ran 18/6 vs 24/0 and their was significant increase(worth the extra electrical cost according to them) in the peppers/ tomatoes under 24/0..............happy growing
..........less is always more/ biggest mistakes I always see with new growers they try to hard(overnute/overwater).......I've done it too/ I should know better haI gotta disagree about plants only needing 14 hrs a day veg(max)........Basically most crop size records in the US where attained in Alaskan summer seasons(last I checked
)Also check garden's cure/ greenpinelane......couple growers ran 18/6 vs 24/0 and their was significant increase(worth the extra electrical cost according to them) in the peppers/ tomatoes under 24/0..............happy growing
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I long used 18/6 and tried 24/0 for mj, not tomatoes or peppers. This grow is 14/10 from the git go, and now 11/13 in flower. Th e 14/10 also came from TL.^^^^^^^Great info Pet
I gotta disagree about plants only needing 14 hrs a day veg(max)........Basically most crop size records in the US where attained in Alaskan summer seasons(last I checked
Also check garden's cure/ greenpinelane......couple growers ran 18/6 vs 24/0 and their was significant increase(worth the extra electrical cost according to them) in the peppers/ tomatoes under 24/0..............happy growing
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
This argument stems from misinfo provided by early LED mgfs, who basically sold mj growers a bill of goods. Once we learn something that is later proven to be untrue, it is hard for many to unlearn the falsehood. This goes for religion, politics... too
This is copied from a website called SkunkSkool. Are you ready to unlearn?
Just over 50% of green light is reflected.
The rest is used by the plant to aid in photosynthesis.
Positive Effects of Green Light on Cannabis Photosynthesis It has been discovered that plants do respond to green light, particularly during vegetation.
During the pre vegetation stage (before seed casing pops off) green light will negate all the negative effects of blue and red irradiation. With stems maturing quicker and stronger.
Indeed if green light is used throughout the entire vegetation cycle your plants will mature quicker and be much stronger than had you used red and blue on their own.
This may be a little 'out there' but it has also been surmised that cannabis could adapt and grow in a pure green spectrum environment.
food for thought
(I highlighted the last sentences of each paragraph):
During the transition from darkness to light, the rate of hypocotyl elongation is determined from the integration of light signals sensed through the phototropin, cryptochrome, and phytochrome signalling pathways. In all light conditions studied, from UV to far-red, early hypocotyl growth is rapidly and robustly suppressed within minutes of illumination in a manner dependent upon light quality and quantity. In this study, it is shown that green light (GL) irradiation leads to a rapid increase in the growth rate of etiolated Arabidopsis seedlings. GL-mediated growth promotion was detected in response to constant irradiation or a short, single pulse of light with a similar time course. The response has a threshold between 10?1 and 100 ?mol m?2, is saturated before 102 ?mol m?2 and obeys reciprocity. Genetic analyses indicate that the cryptochrome or phototropin photoreceptors do not participate in the response. The major phytochrome receptors influence the normal amplitude and timing of the GL response, yet the GL response is normal in seedlings grown for hours under constant dim-red light. Therefore, phytochrome activation enhances, but is not required for, the GL response. Seedlings grown under green, red, and blue light together are longer than those grown under red and blue alone. These data indicate that a novel GL-activated light sensor promotes early stem elongation that antagonizes growth inhibition. [/B]
Monochromatic green light (GL) has been shown to act as a signal in regulating specific facets of plant physiology, inhibiting seedling mass, plant cell culture growth, and light-induced gravitropic root elongating. Recently it has been shown that GL can reverse blue light-induced stomatal opening. The GL response is mediated through a yet-to-be-defined photosensor, and genetic analyses suggest the response to be zeaxanthin based. Plant responses to GL may be initiated through known light sensors. Phytochromes and cryptochromes absorb GL and possibly influence light-induced events. However, the action/response spectra for GL-induced responses exhibit a peak between 540 to 550 nm and thus are incongruous with the absorption spectra for phytochromes, cryptochromes, and phototropins and the action spectra for the responses they govern. GL signals may also be a consequence of low-level coactivation of multiple sensory systems that together guide atypical physiological outcomes.[/b] The entire article is very long, but you can read it here: http://www.drskunk.com/GREENLds.htm
This is copied from a website called SkunkSkool. Are you ready to unlearn?
Just over 50% of green light is reflected.
The rest is used by the plant to aid in photosynthesis.
Positive Effects of Green Light on Cannabis Photosynthesis It has been discovered that plants do respond to green light, particularly during vegetation.
During the pre vegetation stage (before seed casing pops off) green light will negate all the negative effects of blue and red irradiation. With stems maturing quicker and stronger.
Indeed if green light is used throughout the entire vegetation cycle your plants will mature quicker and be much stronger than had you used red and blue on their own.
This may be a little 'out there' but it has also been surmised that cannabis could adapt and grow in a pure green spectrum environment.
food for thought
(I highlighted the last sentences of each paragraph):
During the transition from darkness to light, the rate of hypocotyl elongation is determined from the integration of light signals sensed through the phototropin, cryptochrome, and phytochrome signalling pathways. In all light conditions studied, from UV to far-red, early hypocotyl growth is rapidly and robustly suppressed within minutes of illumination in a manner dependent upon light quality and quantity. In this study, it is shown that green light (GL) irradiation leads to a rapid increase in the growth rate of etiolated Arabidopsis seedlings. GL-mediated growth promotion was detected in response to constant irradiation or a short, single pulse of light with a similar time course. The response has a threshold between 10?1 and 100 ?mol m?2, is saturated before 102 ?mol m?2 and obeys reciprocity. Genetic analyses indicate that the cryptochrome or phototropin photoreceptors do not participate in the response. The major phytochrome receptors influence the normal amplitude and timing of the GL response, yet the GL response is normal in seedlings grown for hours under constant dim-red light. Therefore, phytochrome activation enhances, but is not required for, the GL response. Seedlings grown under green, red, and blue light together are longer than those grown under red and blue alone. These data indicate that a novel GL-activated light sensor promotes early stem elongation that antagonizes growth inhibition. [/B]
Monochromatic green light (GL) has been shown to act as a signal in regulating specific facets of plant physiology, inhibiting seedling mass, plant cell culture growth, and light-induced gravitropic root elongating. Recently it has been shown that GL can reverse blue light-induced stomatal opening. The GL response is mediated through a yet-to-be-defined photosensor, and genetic analyses suggest the response to be zeaxanthin based. Plant responses to GL may be initiated through known light sensors. Phytochromes and cryptochromes absorb GL and possibly influence light-induced events. However, the action/response spectra for GL-induced responses exhibit a peak between 540 to 550 nm and thus are incongruous with the absorption spectra for phytochromes, cryptochromes, and phototropins and the action spectra for the responses they govern. GL signals may also be a consequence of low-level coactivation of multiple sensory systems that together guide atypical physiological outcomes.[/b] The entire article is very long, but you can read it here: http://www.drskunk.com/GREENLds.htm