Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Unless I misunderstand, you have 2 variables (different growing methods and different nutes) so it is harder to tell what is the cause of disparity.
A Tale of The Tape HPA vs 21st Century Flood and Drain
- Thread starter PetFlora
- Start date
sorry about the late respone im on it! and from what ive been reading some people dont like the 12/1 veg cycle they say it doenst allow enought time for photosyntheis and noticed a lighter yeild but let me know if youdo give it a shotHey DH. First can you do me a favor? I have tried to register with uk420 several times. I never get a confirmation notice. Tried reaching the mods, but it's the old catch 22: you have to be a member. My UN there is PhatNuggz
Now to your question. This grow is 14/10 in veg. When I got ready to flip I went 12/12 for ~ 5 days (thinking some acclimation is a good thing, though I have not seen any studies) then dropped to 11/13 where it will stay until the last week. Will then drop to 10-9.
TB I agree about mimicking mother nature (the best part, not the cloudy days, storms, droughts...), however, I would try the 12/1 cycle if I could find a reasonably priced programmable timer. It's one of things I want to investigate on uk420
Lighting Schedule
I tried 24/0 and 21/3. They work but I am not convinced of their value. As can be seen in the charts above, mj needs a longer dark period. With hydro at least, they continue to get fed; something you would not want to do with soil/media
What I find is my plants grow quite a bit during the dark period, both in veg and in flower (bigger buds over night). Some of this could be due to night feedings, which non automated systems cannot duplicate. Yet another reason to go hydro.
your right the way they get female seeds is by inducing a female plant to herm and polinate itself by using colidal silver it will throw out nanners thats also why female seeds have been knownm to herm cuase there origination is from a herm
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I can't believe it's only been 5 days since I took the last round of pics (post 107). Since then, pistil development has increased ~ 3 fold on the F & D plant. Calyxes are developing on the 2 in HPA, as well as the clone downstairs
Damn if I didn't drop my pH pen and break the probe glass. New tip ordered. The DM nutes feeding the hpa plants needs some pH adjusting but should be ok for 4-5 days. The big thing is, at this stage and feeding 1 sec/2:30 during lights on 1/3:30 lights off, I am still making 5g of fresh nutes every 3 days. The root balls are 'merican football size, and look amazing; every new root bone is covered in root hairs. Too bad both of these plants are expressing short Indica. Both look like forearm size colas.
I increased the feed cycles with the F & D from 60 minutes to 40 minutes. Could probably go 30, and might for a few days to see how much faster they fatten up. Just upped the ppm to ~ 800 for them
V & B nutes update: I am seeing a very small amount of precipitate, literally ~ 10 grains (3 tsps ~ 3g). A prefilter in a hpa rez would catch them. Other than that I am liking what I am seeing. I am going to increase ppm in hpa to ~ 800 to see if that helps fatten up the buds.
Still no approval from UK420
Trying my best to hold off until Friday for new pics. The difference from 7 days should be pretty dramatic, at least in the F & D rig
Light Update
I am ~ 3 -4 weeks from finished, so today I swapped out the Quantum Flower bulb for another Red Sun. Now have 3 Red Suns + 1 UVL 660 + 1 AquaSun + 2 ZooMed FloroSuns and 1 Coral Wave. This will remain through to finish
Damn if I didn't drop my pH pen and break the probe glass. New tip ordered. The DM nutes feeding the hpa plants needs some pH adjusting but should be ok for 4-5 days. The big thing is, at this stage and feeding 1 sec/2:30 during lights on 1/3:30 lights off, I am still making 5g of fresh nutes every 3 days. The root balls are 'merican football size, and look amazing; every new root bone is covered in root hairs. Too bad both of these plants are expressing short Indica. Both look like forearm size colas.
I increased the feed cycles with the F & D from 60 minutes to 40 minutes. Could probably go 30, and might for a few days to see how much faster they fatten up. Just upped the ppm to ~ 800 for them
V & B nutes update: I am seeing a very small amount of precipitate, literally ~ 10 grains (3 tsps ~ 3g). A prefilter in a hpa rez would catch them. Other than that I am liking what I am seeing. I am going to increase ppm in hpa to ~ 800 to see if that helps fatten up the buds.
Still no approval from UK420
Trying my best to hold off until Friday for new pics. The difference from 7 days should be pretty dramatic, at least in the F & D rig
Light Update
I am ~ 3 -4 weeks from finished, so today I swapped out the Quantum Flower bulb for another Red Sun. Now have 3 Red Suns + 1 UVL 660 + 1 AquaSun + 2 ZooMed FloroSuns and 1 Coral Wave. This will remain through to finish
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I continue to be impressed with the Veg & Bloom nutes; even my clone has perked up
Weekly Photo Update
HPA
Both of these are tightly packed with buds. They look like Thai Sticks. Big root ball is from shorter plant. So, big roots do not necessarily indicate big plants
F & D
Two days ago I started flooding every half hour during lights on. She seems to like it. Also nutes bumped up to ~ 800 ppms
Clone
It's crazy to see her responding to the Veg & Bloom nutes. She seemed almost done, but after 5 days of V & B she is having a bud growth spurt
Weekly Photo Update
HPA
Both of these are tightly packed with buds. They look like Thai Sticks. Big root ball is from shorter plant. So, big roots do not necessarily indicate big plants
F & D
Two days ago I started flooding every half hour during lights on. She seems to like it. Also nutes bumped up to ~ 800 ppms
Clone
It's crazy to see her responding to the Veg & Bloom nutes. She seemed almost done, but after 5 days of V & B she is having a bud growth spurt
Southtexasman87
Active Member
So whats u light times run? Veg /bloom?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Congrats on owning #420. I run 14/10 in veg and drop to 12/12 for a week to initiate flower (but that's not necessary. Just increasing veg nutes from 400 to 600 caused sexing without light change), then drop to 11/13 to the end, unless I feel a further drop to 10/14 is warranted. Ya hafta watch your plants and read the tea leaves
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Looks good. I think there is somewhat of truth to the fact that if the plant spends so much energy in overproducing roots, then the energy is taken from topside growth. That's why efficient roots would seem to be so important. Like your new "warm fuzzy"" avatar 
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
FYI, since taking the pics on Friday morning, the buds have fattened up considerably. Time to push it.
Instead of increasing ppms, increase the frequency of feed cycles. This follows optimizing human nutrition- lots of small meals throughout the day as opposed to 2-3 large ones.
This morning I decided to increase the number of feedings from 1/30 to 1/20 during lights on.
Instead of increasing ppms, increase the frequency of feed cycles. This follows optimizing human nutrition- lots of small meals throughout the day as opposed to 2-3 large ones.
This morning I decided to increase the number of feedings from 1/30 to 1/20 during lights on.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
STM87 I am still experimenting with light cycles for seedlings. I 'think' 24/0 for ~ 7 days is fine, but the light has to be well above the plants, after that 14/10 for veg
Vegging Clones 14/10
For flower I reduce to 12/12 for 7 days, then 11/13 until ~ the last week, at which point I drop to 10/14
Vegging Clones 14/10
For flower I reduce to 12/12 for 7 days, then 11/13 until ~ the last week, at which point I drop to 10/14
Redoctober
Well-Known Member
Looking good! It's difficult to tell from the pic, but in the HPA, what is holding the plants up so they don't flop over? I don't see any stakes or strings or anything.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
No strings attached, so far. I 'think' plants will self center to a point but they may become bud heavy on one side. I had to support the larger one after snapping the main stalk, as much to allow the break to heal as well as the balance being thrown off. The other one is so small it won't require support
These couplers come with a locking collar on the bottom which helps, but I should have something more substantial. I bought a couple of 6" net pots with the 12" lip designed for 5G buckets to use with some clones from the larger plant. I am sure these will be tasty, but it's way too much work for such a small yield. And even though it looks like I could put 6 in this pod, the root balls are too big for more than 2; 3 tops.
These couplers come with a locking collar on the bottom which helps, but I should have something more substantial. I bought a couple of 6" net pots with the 12" lip designed for 5G buckets to use with some clones from the larger plant. I am sure these will be tasty, but it's way too much work for such a small yield. And even though it looks like I could put 6 in this pod, the root balls are too big for more than 2; 3 tops.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Wow.
My experiment of switching from DM Gold to HR Vg + BLOOM is paying off already. I used a 4" magnifying glass to look closely at all 3 systems. Only the hpa is still getting DM Gold ONE Grow + Potash+.
Both getting V & B now have ~ 5% trics, whereas the hpa < 1%.
Now this could simply be a matter of not having added enough Potash+. I didn't want to over do it, so I just bumped the 5g rez with another 6mls of Potash+, and may need to bump again
Even if doing this jump starts the trics, V & B is so much easier all the way around.
My experiment of switching from DM Gold to HR Vg + BLOOM is paying off already. I used a 4" magnifying glass to look closely at all 3 systems. Only the hpa is still getting DM Gold ONE Grow + Potash+.
Both getting V & B now have ~ 5% trics, whereas the hpa < 1%.
Now this could simply be a matter of not having added enough Potash+. I didn't want to over do it, so I just bumped the 5g rez with another 6mls of Potash+, and may need to bump again
Even if doing this jump starts the trics, V & B is so much easier all the way around.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
I forget which medium you are using in this f/d? Obviously not rockwool as it tends to only need flooding 2-3 times/day and also this seems brand dependant as the different manufacturing processes employed seem to yield very different water retention properties.
yea in bodybuilding its 6 meals eaten every 2.5- 3 hours I think your plants will respond well to this type of feeding as well