Nonbelievers, how did you lose your religion?

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
You say talking snakes are crazy, but you didn't live in those times. Take such claims with grains of salt, but never claim to know the truth.

Folks who take everything literally are obviously misguided. Not everything is meant to be literal. I say God does exist, not just because I feel that way, but also because of some life experiences and a whole slew of things happening that just seemed to line up perfectly - like it was meant to be. But I realize this is just a belief. I prefer to make my religion sports, where it's less dangerous and people get less angry over disagreements. What I see from you is pointless insults to large groups of people that may have some difficult to justify beliefs, but also are beliefs that are just as difficult to hold in question for many of the same reasons you or I cannot say for certain the existence of God.

Most things we choose to belief are taken largely on faith. You have faith scientists are not misleading you and did not miss something, etc etc.
Believing in talking snakes is crazy. Think about it.. When was the last time you witnessed a talking snake?

Why do you say god exists? Have you ever seen him? Can you bring him/her over to my house so that I can believe?

I see large groups of people turning on each other over religion. Many times it leads to murder.. Yes murder. I think that's stupid. Understand that I'm insulting their beliefs and faith. I'm not insulting the person. Like I've said many times before, many religious followers are intelligent.. That doesn't mean that their beliefs aren't nonsense.

I don't need to believe or have faith in science since science only deals with facts.. I can disagree with science and say that gravity isn't real.. That wouldn't matter though since science would still be right. It requires no faith.. Religion on the other hand, well that requires HUGE leaps of faith.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Well, I will submit to you, that your position is absolutely no different than the guys position who vehemently beliefs in talking snakes existing thousands of years ago. Good luck with it.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Nothing unbelievable has been presented either. You are young, I suggest keeping an open mind about things. You cannot prove God does not exist. Just like a believer cannot prove he or she or it does.

You're right, I can't prove a god doesn't exist any more than a theist can prove one does. But why should we automatically believe unprovable claims? If you consider the implications, it would just be too difficult and too time consuming to automatically assume every claim is correct without testing it first, not to mention dangerous, wouldn't you agree?

Carl Sagan wrote about this in his book A Demon Haunted World;

http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm

He explains the implications much better than I could, give that a look to understand why the correct default to belief is none at all.

Well, when I was much younger I chose to believe that God wasn't real. Since then I have decided differently.

How did you 'choose' to believe something wasn't real?


Your dead wrong. I wish you where not but many well informed, intelligent people believe in the garbage. All types of investigative professions are full of critical thinkers that believe the stuff. Some scientist with IQ's in the 200+ believe in God. Sorry man but there are many very intelligent critical thinking believers, its a part of them like brushing your teeth only more hart felt. And no I don't believe for a second that you have any clue in hell what its like to grow up in an environment where people talk about what an honor it would be to die a martyr. Your opinion proves it.

I know many intelligent people, much more intelligent and educated than I am, who claim to have a belief in God. That doesn't mean anything. Are we to believe the smartest people we know have the best, most informed, up to date, beliefs of anyone? That's an obvious fallacy that shouldn't even need to be pointed out.

Isaac Newton, the motherfucker who came up with calculus, believed in alchemy. Christopher Columbus (and everyone else at the time) believed the world was flat. Smart people, simply put, can be misinformed, and believing they have all the answers at any given moment is a logical fallacy (argument from authority).

Consider Obama's stance on religion, the war on drugs, the middle east, most things...

Most things we choose to belief are taken largely on faith. You have faith scientists are not misleading you and did not miss something, etc etc.

True, but it's different from the faith organized religions require, you must admit..
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Can you name me one intelligent person with an IQ score of 200+ that believes there was a talking snake? How about one that believes there was a great flood? Sorry for mainly picking on christianity, but I'm sure you still understand my point.
I would challenge him to name one person with a verified IQ over 200, can't use google. He's making shit up, 200+ IQ is virtually unheard of. People like Newton and Maxwell were probably close but considering that there is no standardization for IQ tests, there may be some subjects that do test that high but would say that most modern persons with IQs over 200 probably are not believers.

rpgdude said:
Sorry man but there are many very intelligent critical thinking believers
Let's hear about them. "Many" is a relative term. How come there is a direct negative correlation that the more educated and intelligent a person, the less likely they will be a believer? Believers come in all sorts. The smarter one is, the less likely they are to believe in literal truths contained in religious books and the smartest people get away from believing in anything supernatural. An unprovable god concept is a very difficult harness for even smart people to give up considering how we generally grow up and the persistence in which this belief is perpetuated through society, yet many still do give it up.

OGE said:
Again, you are but a child. I read your post. You aren't being logical (nor did it seem you were being very logical all through your decision making process in that post but anyway...) here at all, sorry. You can't prove God doesn't exist
Considering how you seem to be critical of Hep because he is unwilling to believe in some unprovable thing makes me think you are the immature one, regardless of your actual age. Not being able to prove something does not exist is not a valid reason to accept it as even possible. You should brush up on your logic and fallacies before posting here. The number of times FSM and Russel's teapot has been discussed on this forum is pretty high so people are familiar with it and you won't be able to convince anyone by using this canard.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member

True, but it's different from the faith organized religions require, you must admit..
It not usually considered faith either but confidence. It's only called faith when believers attempt to make this particular equivocation. A tired an worn out game. They should get together and get a list of arguments that fail one the most basic logical levels. Of course, that would leave them with little to discuss.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
It not usually considered faith either but confidence. It's only called faith when believers attempt to make this particular equivocation. A tired an worn out game. They should get together and get a list of arguments that fail one the most basic logical levels. Of course, that would leave them with little to discuss.

Maybe somebody like us should do it. Ally ourselves with the creationist/religious movement, infiltrate their inner circle, inform them of what is actually going on. I know you are smart enough, the real challenge would be repressing the "OMFG!" meter, but I have faith in you! You have more experience on this Earth than I do, I'll play sidekick, I'll be the Riley to your Ben, you get in there and be like "REALITY!", they'll be like "awww..".

WIN.


:weed:
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
You say talking snakes are crazy, but you didn't live in those times. Take such claims with grains of salt, but never claim to know the truth.

Folks who take everything literally are obviously misguided. Not everything is meant to be literal. I say God does exist, not just because I feel that way, but also because of some life experiences and a whole slew of things happening that just seemed to line up perfectly - like it was meant to be. But I realize this is just a belief. I prefer to make my religion sports, where it's less dangerous and people get less angry over disagreements. What I see from you is pointless insults to large groups of people that may have some difficulty justifying their beliefs, but also are beliefs that are just as difficult to hold in question for many of the same reasons you or I cannot say for certain the existence of God.

Most things we choose to belief are taken largely on faith. You have faith scientists are not misleading you and did not miss something, etc etc.
I appreciate your genuine attempts at discussion, however you seem to be misinformed on a few things. I bring them up because you have used them as strong talking points.

Einstein did not believe in a personal supernatural god. As you can imagine this is something that comes up a lot around here. He believed in Spinoza's god, which is an acknowledgment of profound order and structure outside of humans.

Critical thinking is a process which follows rigid rules. These rules prevent the conclusion of God from being a critical conclusion, therefore if there are critical thinkers who believe in God, they aren't applying these critical thinking skills to the subject, or else they openly admit they have nothing but faith. IQ has nothing to do with it. If these rules are broken we no longer have critical thinking, we have pseudoscience. Critical thinking, like science, is completely transparent; the process is open for all to check the work, which means no faith is required in the scientists themselves to accept the scientific answers provided.

The burden of proof always falls on the person making the claim. It is completely irrelevant that I am unable to disprove god's existence, just as irrelevant as the fact that I can not disprove a giant unicorn living in the sun. Name for me one other area of serious knowledge in which we assume something exists for no other reason than we can't prove it doesn't. I don't understand why you feel the lack of disproof is anything to be glib about. And keep in mind that while we can not disprove a supernatural deity, we can disprove many of the human proposed incarnations of such a deity.

Lastly, you seem to confuse the various contextual meanings of the word faith. Having faith that the sun will rise tomorrow is very different than having faith in a supernatural father. The belief that the sun will rise is based on past performance, study, and understanding of it's patterns, IOW, evidence. Religious faith is never stronger than when we believe without any evidence at all, making it a completely different concept, and unfair to conflate the two during debate.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Since the sun has to rise for you, no one else matters, it is a matter faith if you will see it. Or not. But, that is just the moment to moment faith in the next breath.

As real as this seems folks, we could find this was all a dream. Not a puny dream-dream, but, the extra strength, somewhat measureable, Reality Dream. All my forum mates were no more real than everyone else of the so-called Real Actors in my Life.

So, no way to prove for ourselves that the Sun will rise tomorrow. So, in that sense everything is faith. We can't prove or dis-prove the concept of diety. We can object to any and all attempts for difinition. And we don't have to reject the idea of diety out of hand, either. No proof. And it is an ancient conjecture, made quite interesting by the practicallly univeral acceptance, and seemingly infinite strife of disagreeement in details.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
You say talking snakes are crazy, but you didn't live in those times. Take such claims with grains of salt, but never claim to know the truth.

Folks who take everything literally are obviously misguided. Not everything is meant to be literal. I say God does exist, not just because I feel that way, but also because of some life experiences and a whole slew of things happening that just seemed to line up perfectly - like it was meant to be. But I realize this is just a belief. I prefer to make my religion sports, where it's less dangerous and people get less angry over disagreements. What I see from you is pointless insults to large groups of people that may have some difficulty justifying their beliefs, but also are beliefs that are just as difficult to hold in question for many of the same reasons you or I cannot say for certain the existence of God.

Most things we choose to belief are taken largely on faith. You have faith scientists are not misleading you and did not miss something, etc etc.
I'll put in my 2¢ about the last sentence.

There is one basic difference between a traditional faith and a faith that scientists are not negligent andor misleading.
The entire body of science is open-source. Anyone can potentially rebuild the ladder of reason and observation that led from Start to a given scientific theory or principle. Often, people doing just that uncover a flaw or bring some other item of real value to the edifice.
None of this holds for any of the scriptural traditions, Abrahamic or otherwise. There's no internal check protocol. One is given a book and simply told "Read." cn
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Hey come over to TX.. I wanna take you on a magic dragon ride to the moon where I will give you $1,000,000.
What you don't believe me? Come on bro, what proof do you have against me? Just come on down.. Seriously. You can't prove I'm wrong so just have faith man.. Faith.
LOL Hep your fucking clown man, I love posts like this where the true dimwit comes out, its just a tab bit more funny than the posts where you try hard to act smart.
 

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Believing in talking snakes is crazy. Think about it.. When was the last time you witnessed a talking snake? Why do you say god exists? Have you ever seen him? Can you bring him/her over to my house so that I can believe? I see large groups of people turning on each other over religion. Many times it leads to murder.. Yes murder. I think that's stupid. Understand that I'm insulting their beliefs and faith. I'm not insulting the person. Like I've said many times before, many religious followers are intelligent.. That doesn't mean that their beliefs aren't nonsense. I don't need to believe or have faith in science since science only deals with facts.. I can disagree with science and say that gravity isn't real.. That wouldn't matter though since science would still be right. It requires no faith.. Religion on the other hand, well that requires HUGE leaps of faith.
Talking snakes exist! Remember how that slimy snake talked Eve into biting the apple of knowledge? It's in the very first chapter of the Bible, the Word of the Invisible Man in Sky and everything in that book is true because they say it is and just because no one has actually talked to a snake in 1000s of years it happened. :bigjoint:
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
LOL Hep your fucking clown man, I love posts like this where the true dimwit comes out, its just a tab bit more funny than the posts where you try hard to act smart.
Here let me seriously be smart now..

We are all gods. We are young ignorant gods. We will keep on growing more knowledge and wisdom throughout eternity. All science is a bunch of nonsense since it doesn't go along with my beliefs.

Now I'm smart.. Yay!!
 

Trolling

New Member
Explain yourself then, he does have a point. The bible just says stuff and so is he, only difference is it's past down from generation and he is just saying stuff to make an example, proof says alot.


Not sure why this god/faith discussion is still going, you either believe or you don't, move on already. People die because of stupid people, move on.


/end thread
 

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Since the sun has to rise for you, no one else matters, it is a matter faith if you will see it. Or not. But, that is just the moment to moment faith in the next breath.

As real as this seems folks, we could find this was all a dream. Not a puny dream-dream, but, the extra strength, somewhat measureable, Reality Dream. All my forum mates were no more real than everyone else of the so-called Real Actors in my Life.

So, no way to prove for ourselves that the Sun will rise tomorrow. So, in that sense everything is faith. We can't prove or dis-prove the concept of diety. We can object to any and all attempts for difinition. And we don't have to reject the idea of diety out of hand, either. No proof. And it is an ancient conjecture, made quite interesting by the practicallly univeral acceptance, and seemingly infinite strife of disagreeement in details.
Mos def told Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens that everyone has a religion (there's is not having one) so here would be mine: the church of Bill Hicks

All Matter is mearly energy condensed to one vibration - we are all one consciousness experiencing life subjectively;

Bill Hicks and I'm dead now. It’s time for a new philosophy, folks. One based on yes, the principles of Jesus, which were love your brother as yourself, because you know what? He is yourself. Literally. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! We are literally all one. OK. The body is an illusion, you see, cos God, doesn’t create things that can be destroyed…cos he’s God, dig it? We have miscreated this world. It’s a dream. What’s that old song - ‘Row, row, row, your boat, gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream’? See, we knew it as children. We forgot it since.
“
— Bill Hicks
 

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Explain yourself then, he does have a point. The bible just says stuff and so is he, only difference is it's past down from generation and he is just saying stuff to make an example, proof says alot.


Not sure why this god/faith discussion is still going, you either believe or you don't, move on already. People die because of stupid people, move on.


/end thread
Didn't you go and answer your own question? People die because of stupid people, move on.
 

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Really? Hes a great man but shame on him if those were his exact words, it sounded a lot like arrogant teenager that thinks hes a man and has life figured out lol.
I was gonna clap and say "clever", but you don't deserve it. That insult has been used sooo many times by so many different members that it kinda wore off. Got anything new for me?
 
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