Are any of you here a Sensitive?

[Padawanbater2]

Lol you got nothing Pad! All you have is a personal grudge and an attitude. Theres plenty of things out there that suggest theres most likely a spirit world with souls and gods, and you desperately try to bring those things back to your perspective and claim it is the only way to view them when in reality its just you being stubborn and clinging on to a belief.

Extremists are going to be extremists I guess. If any of these guys were Muslim they would be a terrorist, if they were Christian then they would be like the Westboro Baptist Church. No matter what belief, even yours Pad, extremists create war and destruction, and you are an extremist.

"There's plenty of things, let me just not list any of them, ever, you should just trust me and take my word for it!"

Science isn't a belief, nice try though. Golf clap.

As if we needed any more proof you don't understand what you're saying.

 

[mindphuk]

LOL I pissed off the professor, what are you going to do ask me to leave the auditorium? I know people like that and they are pathetic. do you know how many of you teacher/professor douchebags I have been in the class with in which you simply CANNOT have an opinion?

Who says you can't have an opinion? Completely misrepresenting what modern science has been able to put together is not an opinion, it is a diversion. BTW, I never said I'm a professor but if you ever go to grad school, which you will if you are studying to be a genetic engineer (yeah, right..), you will have students. Way to jump to conclusions...

I have yet to see any real proof from you either and i predicted that as well.

How many times do we need to ask? What fucking proof do you want? Do you understand that nothing is ever proven to the satisfaction you seem to want? You said, " Only at the point that we can read our entire genome like a book along with the junk DNA can we truly come upon the conclusion that we have evolved 100% naturally."
Completely untrue. It is the person making the claim that we have not evolved naturally that must provide the evidence. Your ability to understand the burden of proof (among other things) is quite sad for someone claiming to be studying advanced science.

You got me on the monkey explanation, not my best argument since I was under the impression that I was dealing with a "fuckin' lingerer" rather than with a beloved genetics teacher. I ment to shine the light on our differences however.

The problem is that you claimed to be well versed in evolutionary theory. The only people that make idiotic comments like that are those that are trying to dismiss evolution as an answer for our origins. That leaves me believing you are one of those people. You give lip service to accepting evolution then you say shit like that along with your meddling DNA bullshit from a crackpot that has a deformed human skull. If these are the people you listen to then your career in science is going to be short lived.

Let's examine us and primates. Of course, they have what we consider intelligence, but do you think it's in any way as complex or spiritual as ours is? The main difference between us, we live our life with the awareness of duration (time) and we are even unveiling that time is as malleable as matter or even space is. It's a very probable scenario that we went from that just by mere conicidence but I refuse to accept (but still hold the thought) that it's a coincidence since it is not coinciding within anyone but us for whatever reason. I Know the question of WHY DID THIS HAPPEN TO US is not enough of a reason but I WANT AN ANSWER beyond the one modern physical science or biology provides seeing as how they are both incomplete studies that fail to incorporate the undeniable phenomenon many experience.

Right, you don't like the answers science gives us because you think they are incomplete (as is every subject that is the the subject of current research), yet instead of recognizing that it is a puzzle that needs to be put together a small piece at a time, you get impatient and make fantastical claims that are not supported by the data but make you feel good and think you know something the stoopid scientists don't.

I want you to share your insight on the evolutionary timeline with me. I am asking you for this much to see if we are on the same page with our timeline. I want to know when you are claiming the

...?

p.s. you offended me first. i never have a hard time passing anything so quit insinuating someone who doesn't agree with you is a failure.

I criticized your approach to science and pointed out how your 'hypotheses' fail basic inquiry. I never said you were a failure, I never called you names. Calling someone an asshole is not even on the same level as pointing out someone's logical fail.

Are you familiar with the fact that quantum mechanics suggests consciousness is based outside of what we call the five senses but the experience of it seems like it is within? We're not talking some bullshit pseudoscience here; Michio Kaku, Albert Einstein, Steven Hawking and many physicists have all agreed with this. Genetics will never explain the link between patterns of similarity (Ask me if you don't know what i'm talking baout) amongst every spiritual being because the human genome (AND ALL "PHYSICAL SCIENCE") is based only in the physical world (5 Senses). "Science" is the study of everything.

Yea, I don't think you know what the hell you are trying to say here. Reality is more than our 5 senses. No one has claimed otherwise. We don't understand consciousness yet. QM doesn't suggest anything about consciousness, it is only interested in how particles behave, however the study of neurobiology does suggest that QM plays a role in how our brains work. Maybe that's what you meant. But so what? It says nothing about spirituality, which you seem to continue to neglect to define, because as has been pointed out, there is no universal definition so in order to understand each other, you must give a definition of ambiguous terms.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

"There's plenty of things, let me just not list any of them, ever, you should just trust me and take my word for it!"

Science isn't a belief, nice try though. Golf clap.

As if we needed any more proof you don't understand what you're saying.

We had this discussion before, probably multiple times. Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, NDE's and OBE's, psychedelics, alien and ghost sightings, the billions of profound experiences reported throughout history, ALL of them are things you desperately try to bring back down to your reality and force a materialistic explanation to, and it is sad that you side with your materialistic explanation for all of them. You are just clinging to a belief Pad. So much so that no matter what the explanation, even if something happened in front of your own eyes, you would not budge because you have such a personal attachment to your delusions. Its funny when you said if some astonishing thing happened to you like a godly being taking you to visit dead relatives, you still wouldnt believe in 'god'. Yet you dont hold the same standards when looking at a dead body and believing in atheism. No ones buying your agnostic-atheist act btw.

 

[ganja man23]

"There's plenty of things, let me just not list any of them, ever, you should just trust me and take my word for it!"

Science isn't a belief, nice try though. Golf clap.

As if we needed any more proof you don't understand what you're saying.

Hey pad did you watch my video? That can help you relate to the concept of string theory which is what chief is talking about. We strive to teach the concept of infinity (directly related to string theory) because it is vital to the process of choice in the universe. Let the idea ponder in your head, proof is on the way but not here just yet. They told neuton he was crazy when he thought of an invisible force called gravity too. Just be patient and when it comes it will be a lot of a smoother transition for your ego. I'm not asking you to change your beliefs, just that the key is to take in as much as possible no matter how bizarre. You don't have to believe it by changing your life, you are just expanding NOT CHANGING your perspective.

P.s. read my post to that biology feller, the second half was for you.

 

[greenswag]

I originally posted this, but decided against it and deleted it before anyone saw and was able to respond. If you want you can disregard it, just think of me as playing devils advocate in this. I personally believe everyone is correct in this, and I'm really just a spectator watching all of this going down but I'll throw in my own thoughts. Thank you CWE for the encouragement to post it.

Belief that god exist is a dangerous belief, as proven by the crusades and other things. This same danger follows every belief, which we can all agree on. We can also agree, that almost every time these beliefs end up dangerous, it is by an extremist individual or group. This leaves the belief itself, not guilty, but undisciplined, or over-disciplined believers of the belief. We can also agree that things to do with religions have had positive impact. Meditation for example, has been proven time and again by science, to have positive effects on the body and mind. I look at meditation as a spiritual thing, but respect what science has to say about too. You can look at meditation as a therapeutic thing backed by science..but can you respect it's spiritual aspect? I am on neither side of this argument. I have my own blend of spirituality and science that I find works best for me. Which would be completely agreeing with everything science says, and then peppering in my own little spiritual twist on top here and there.

Without respect for the other side, there is no possible way to find an agreement or make progress. Let's also not forget, that the lack of belief, is a belief itself. You all know I'm not christian, but I just use it because it's the easiest example. Say someone doesn't believe in god. Well, they don't simply, not believe in god, they believe that god does not exist. Therefore, they too have a belief, which like all beliefs, can be dangerous. Can you imagine an atheist, or scientologist or whatever else is out there. Out of frustration that people do not believe what they believe (the lack of any kind of god or spiritual things) and shooting up a church or temple or whatever. I can. Because it is the same danger in holding the belief that there is no god, as the danger of believing there is one, and attacking those who don't believe in the god. Using the danger of a belief is a viable point in saying that we should drop religions. But it is a double edged sword, and there are extremist in every group, like it or not. Just like a pro-lifer killing the doctor who performs abortions. Slightly Hypocritical.

I am NOT someone claiming 2+2=5. I very readily accept everyone's views with respect. I am a very rational person, and like I said before if someday they were to prove the benefits of what I believe to be non existent or wrong, I would happily drop what I believe, but it is yet to happen. Please do not try to throw me into the flames for holding a different view than both sides, this is not a 'your with me or against me' scenario, there is some kind of middle ground and I'm in that middle ground, dodging bullets from both sides. Not being christian I've still gone to church once in a blue moon with a friend, and still enjoy the morals of not stealing, killing etc. I still smile and thank them with respect when they bless me or say they will include me in their prayers. I don't think that there is anyone up there they are praying to, even though they believe it, but I still thank them for it. This is not a hard concept. I completely understand that if I hold a belief I should be ready for someone to question it, and I am. What I struggle to grasp is why someone would have such a hard time with me having my belief, when I'm not harming myself or anyone else, quite the opposite actually. When I volunteer, would it really matter if I do it because I enjoy it, and think it would bring good karma (if you do something good only for the sake of good karma, I believe it gives no karma at all) or because I think the people generally need help? Whether it has any attachment to a religious belief or not, you're still doing good. Hate the harmful extremist, not those who are rational, and choose to follow for other reasons that can bring good to them and those around them. Every religion has people who are helpful to society, and appreciate science too.

I think that if we were all together in person talking this out, we are all I think rational people, and we would be able to quickly find things from both sides that we can agree on, and the discussion would be over in like an hour. From there we would go out and grab a bite to eat all smiles and friendly. So why is it so hard to do that on here? Alright my horse is three stories and I'm leaving scuff marks on this soap box. I'm just hoping everyone can understand what I'm saying.

Like I said I was struggling, and still am, with whether or not I should post this. So many of you are so great at arguing your points like pad, that I guess I just have a fear of being shut down. But this is the internet, and I said above that I am willing to hear others views on the subject and that is true. Agree or disagree with my views, but don't let it change your overall view of me as a person.

 

[ganja man23]

Who says you can't have an opinion? Completely misrepresenting what modern science has been able to put together is not an opinion, it is a diversion. BTW, I never said I'm a professor but if you ever go to grad school, which you will if you are studying to be a genetic engineer (yeah, right..), you will have students. Way to jump to conclusions...

How many times do we need to ask? What fucking proof do you want? Do you understand that nothing is ever proven to the satisfaction you seem to want? You said, " Only at the point that we can read our entire genome like a book along with the junk DNA can we truly come upon the conclusion that we have evolved 100% naturally."
Completely untrue. It is the person making the claim that we have not evolved naturally that must provide the evidence. Your ability to understand the burden of proof (among other things) is quite sad for someone claiming to be studying advanced science.

The problem is that you claimed to be well versed in evolutionary theory. The only people that make idiotic comments like that are those that are trying to dismiss evolution as an answer for our origins. That leaves me believing you are one of those people. You give lip service to accepting evolution then you say shit like that along with your meddling DNA bullshit from a crackpot that has a deformed human skull. If these are the people you listen to then your career in science is going to be short lived.
Right, you don't like the answers science gives us because you think they are incomplete (as is every subject that is the the subject of current research), yet instead of recognizing that it is a puzzle that needs to be put together a small piece at a time, you get impatient and make fantastical claims that are not supported by the data but make you feel good and think you know something the stoopid scientists don't.
...?
I criticized your approach to science and pointed out how your 'hypotheses' fail basic inquiry. I never said you were a failure, I never called you names. Calling someone an asshole is not even on the same level as pointing out someone's logical fail.
Yea, I don't think you know what the hell you are trying to say here. Reality is more than our 5 senses. No one has claimed otherwise. We don't understand consciousness yet. QM doesn't suggest anything about consciousness, it is only interested in how particles behave, however the study of neurobiology does suggest that QM plays a role in how our brains work. Maybe that's what you meant. But so what? It says nothing about spirituality, which you seem to continue to neglect to define, because as has been pointed out, there is no universal definition so in order to understand each other, you must give a definition of ambiguous terms.

So much bullshit, bye bye professor!

 

[Padawanbater2]

We had this discussion before, probably multiple times. Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, NDE's and OBE's, psychedelics, alien and ghost sightings, the billions of profound experiences reported throughout history, ALL of them are things you desperately try to bring back down to your reality and force a materialistic explanation to, and it is sad that you side with your materialistic explanation for all of them. You are just clinging to a belief Pad. So much so that no matter what the explanation, even if something happened in front of your own eyes, you would not budge because you have such a personal attachment to your delusions. Its funny when you said if some astonishing thing happened to you like a godly being taking you to visit dead relatives, you still wouldnt believe in 'god'. Yet you dont hold the same standards when looking at a dead body and believing in atheism. No ones buying you agnostic-atheist act btw.

So now you're telling ME what I believe? Brilliant.

Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, psychedelics - all chemical reactions inside the brain. You don't understand it, so it must be pseudoscience.

NDE's - same thing. You take these peoples word for it, we've all told you a dozen times how that isn't science. Why it's wrong. How it's wrong... You refuse to accept it and apply an unscientific explanation to it, even without any proof or evidence. Again, brilliant.

OBE's?

Alien and ghost sightings - We've demonstrated how and why these happen, still, you present no proof or evidence, all you say is "science can't explain it!". Yet you fail to realize YOU can't explain it either. Must be real!

 

[mindphuk]

So much bullshit, bye bye professor!

Aww, can't stand it that someone saw through your lies?

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

So now you're telling ME what I believe? Brilliant.

Dreams, lucid dreams, astral projection, psychedelics - all chemical reactions inside the brain. You don't understand it, so it must be pseudoscience.

NDE's - same thing. You take these peoples word for it, we've all told you a dozen times how that isn't science. Why it's wrong. How it's wrong... You refuse to accept it and apply an unscientific explanation to it, even without any proof or evidence. Again, brilliant.

OBE's?

Alien and ghost sightings - We've demonstrated how and why these happen, still, you present no proof or evidence, all you say is "science can't explain it!". Yet you fail to realize YOU can't explain it either. Must be real!

Oh really? These things are no longer mysteries? Here I was thinking that we know more about the moon and the ocean than we do about our own brains, damn those scientists that lead me to that belief.

Chemicals play a part, yes, but chemical reactions dont come close to explaining all the happenings in our brains. Our brain is still one of the biggest mysteries in the universe, and the chemical explanation is just science dipping its toe into the subject.

I didnt claim NDE's have to do with science, its above science. All you can do is stomp your feet and say "Nuh uhh! you dont know that!" and then I laugh lol.

OBE's - outer body experiences like astral projection. Theres one OBE experience that was under scientific observation by Dr. Strassman. Two individuals were under the influence of DMT and they were experiencing the same trip and talking to the same godly being (now is where you list another desperate explanation) and that kind of experience happened many more times without the observation of science, have you not heard such stories?

You demonstrated how and why they might be apart of the fallible mind, which is an unconvincing argument. You want everyone to be explained by a fallible mind.

This is exactly what I was talking about Pad. Desperately taking these real experiences and trying to force a materialistic explanation to them. You got nothing man, no matter how much you explain these 'certainties' that delude you.

Haters gunna hate. Extremists gunna extreme lol.

 

[Heisenberg]

I gave reasons, but you guys did not agree with those reasons and tried desperately to pull my explanations back down to physical reality and force some materialistic purpose to them. Dreams, lucid dreams, NDE's and OBE's, psychedelics, etc, all things you desperately try to bring back to your world. Plus, its not my purpose to prove god to you guys, that is impossible, I just want to discuss with like minded people. It is you who does the preaching and attacking because you dont like that the majority of the world thinks you guys are full of shit, it is a grudge. Even a non biased educated agnostic (greenswag) agrees with me, why hasnt he sided with you if your judgments are so right? He looks are one side of the argument and thinks "good point" looks at the other side of the argument and thinks "Oh, another good point". Is his thinking flawed as well because it conflicts with yours? Im sure there must be something flawed there, because you always have to be right, no room for improvement in your mentality. It seems this sheltered bigot has life figured out!

No Heis, it is still you guys doing the stomping and preaching, it is always the opposition doing the stomping and preaching. It is so sad that you are convinced you have everything figured out here.

Having you figured out and being able to deconstruct pseudoscience is in no way indication that I have everything figured out. This is another strawman, which is what you spend the majority of your time debating. You like to assign positions to me and others that are easy to call out because you can not converse on a level that is necessary in true discourse. You often attempt to bring others in the debate attempting to deflect from your shortcomings, but I think greenswag can speak for himself if he finds error in my thinking. You have yet to show anything that suggests that NDE, OBE, or psychedelics is not of the material world, and the fact that you refer to it as my world shows your 'me vs them' mentality. You consider critics to be the enemy and seek to have them take the same view. To you this is a battle of will and you constantly try to characterize everyone else's response to be in the same framework.

You pretend to talk about spirituality, but what you talk about is pseudoscience, which is demonstrably wrong. When other's demonstrate it, you fall back to the only tactics your limited view of the world can muster. You are entitled to get things wrong, as am I, what you are not entitled to is arrogance.

 

[Heisenberg]

Lol you got nothing Pad! All you have is a personal grudge and an attitude. Theres plenty of things out there that suggest theres most likely a spirit world with souls and gods, and you desperately try to bring those things back to your perspective and claim it is the only way to view them when in reality its just you being stubborn and clinging on to a belief.

Extremists are going to be extremists I guess. If any of these guys were Muslim they would be a terrorist, if they were Christian then they would be like the Westboro Baptist Church. No matter what belief, even yours Pad, extremists create war and destruction, and you are an extremist.

“We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.”― Sam Harris

I see a lot of conversation here, no extreme behavior Defending science and reason through words is a peaceful approach, and the only one I have ever seen anyone one here attempt or support. Who has endorsed terrorism? Who has rallied behind Westboro? More strawman positions.

 

[ganja man23]

Aww, can't stand it that someone saw through your lies?

Nope, can't stand it when people lie to me. You claim biology is more than a hobby yet you haven't even demonstrated you know anything at all about biology. You claim to be advanced in genetics and have shown less (none whatsoever) evidence for your arguments than I have. I'm glad I was able to irritate you enough that you start offending me, that is usually a sign of insecurity for the unknown. For such a long reply filled with so much failed promises, it was quite easy for me to realize you are a waste of my time and anyone who probably is within talking distance of you can smell bullshit too. Not a single link to back up your horseshit, only closed, narrow minded and linear perception. If you feel the same about what i say than please shut the fuck up and stop replying to me. Namaste professor.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Having you figured out and being able to deconstruct pseudoscience is in no way indication that I have everything figured out. This is another strawman, which is what you spend the majority of your time debating. You like to assign positions to me and others that are easy to call out because you can not converse on a level that is necessary in true discourse. You often attempt to bring others in the debate attempting to deflect from your shortcomings, but I think greenswag can speak for himself if he finds error in my thinking. You have yet to show anything that suggests that NDE, OBE, or psychedelics is not of the material world, and the fact that you refer to it as my world shows your 'me vs them' mentality. You consider critics to be the enemy and seek to have them take the same view. To you this is a battle of will and you constantly try to characterize everyone else's response to be in the same framework.

You pretend to talk about spirituality, but what you talk about is pseudoscience, which is demonstrably wrong. When other's demonstrate it, you fall back to the only tactics your limited view of the world can muster. You are entitled to get things wrong, as am I, what you are not entitled to is arrogance.

Heis, no matter how much you repeat these things, it doesnt make them correct. I did let greenswag speak for himself, those were quotes from him that I used. He also just posted a good opinion about what is going on, one that you will surely disagree with.

I have done more than enough to demonstrate my points, its just that you dont agree with them, but instead of agreeing to disagree, you assign certainty to your side of the argument and continue to shove it into peoples faces like it is the truth. You hardly ever speak like you are expressing opinions, you speak like you are preaching the word of knowledge and only your word and those that relate to it should be taken seriously. There is no discussing with you because you stay away from the middle ground and must desperately twist everything so it appears that you are right. You are a fanatical extremist. Though I might be a bit fanatical, I do not care if you agree or disagree with me, I dont try to force anything on to people like you are doing. It is you who drags people into this pointless game of "prove it!". Engage me all you want, but you will keep getting the same responses no matter how much you bicker.

 

[Heisenberg]

Oh really? These things are no longer mysteries? Here I was thinking that we know more about the moon and the ocean than we do about our own brains, damn those scientists that lead me to that belief.

Chemicals play a part, yes, but chemical reactions dont come close to explaining all the happenings in our brains. Our brain is still one of the biggest mysteries in the universe, and the chemical explanation is just science dipping its toe into the subject.

I didnt claim NDE's have to do with science, its above science. All you can do is stomp your feet and say "Nuh uhh! you dont know that!" and then I laugh lol.

OBE's - outer body experiences like astral projection. Theres one OBE experience that was under scientific observation by Dr. Strassman. Two individuals were under the influence of DMT and they were experiencing the same trip and talking to the same godly being (now is where you list another desperate explanation) and that kind of experience happened many more times without the observation of science, have you not heard such stories?

You demonstrated how and why they might be apart of the fallible mind, which is an unconvincing argument. You want everyone to be explained by a fallible mind.

This is exactly what I was talking about Pad. Desperately taking these real experiences and trying to force a materialistic explanation to them. You got nothing man, no matter how much you explain these 'certainties' that delude you.

Haters gunna hate. Extremists gunna extreme lol.

I only see one side using language like this. What sort of mindset must you be in to point at someone and say "You got nothing man"? That sounds pretty desperate to me. Meanwhile I see no hint of desperation in Pad's view, just someone exasperated by arguing with someone who responds as a child. Offering wordily explanations which are backed by evidence and reasoning is the proper thing to do in any field of research or academics. Show me one bit of knowledge that was obtained by ignoring worldly explanations in favor of wild speculation. Explaining how science, reason and logic work, and where hypothesis fail has nothing to do with belief. These things are as clear cut as math, yet no one would say that insisting 2+2=4 is holding onto a belief. It can be demonstrated; the work can be shown. This is how we chose to think, and we chose to express our opinions based on how we think. You are the one who seems to have a problem with the way others think. You want to have a conversation without having to be exposed to our thinking, yet you chose to converse in a public place. Each time you are presented with scientific skepticism you go on a tirade and rehash all your tired, well refuted jabs. The truth has no need to stomp it's feet, it has no need to point to others and exclaim they have nothing! The truth can be demonstrated, and will continue to be despite your contrived caterwaul.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

<br>
<br><div>&#8220;We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.&#8221;</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>&#8213; Sam Harris<br><br>I see a lot of conversation here, no extreme&nbsp;behavior&nbsp; &nbsp;Defending science and reason through words is a peaceful approach, and the only one I have ever seen anyone one here attempt or support. &nbsp;Who has endorsed terrorism? &nbsp;Who has rallied behind Westboro? &nbsp;More strawman positions.</div>

drbrr> you fall back on the word @sdfk "strawman" <div/durrkadurr> because you have no argument against what I have to &dbs say... <br>....lol

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

I originally posted this, but decided against it and deleted it before anyone saw and was able to respond. If you want you can disregard it, just think of me as playing devils advocate in this. I personally believe everyone is correct in this, and I'm really just a spectator watching all of this going down but I'll throw in my own thoughts. Thank you CWE for the encouragement to post it.

Belief that god exist is a dangerous belief, as proven by the crusades and other things. This same danger follows every belief, which we can all agree on. We can also agree, that almost every time these beliefs end up dangerous, it is by an extremist individual or group. This leaves the belief itself, not guilty, but undisciplined, or over-disciplined believers of the belief. We can also agree that things to do with religions have had positive impact. Meditation for example, has been proven time and again by science, to have positive effects on the body and mind. I look at meditation as a spiritual thing, but respect what science has to say about too. You can look at meditation as a therapeutic thing backed by science..but can you respect it's spiritual aspect? I am on neither side of this argument. I have my own blend of spirituality and science that I find works best for me. Which would be completely agreeing with everything science says, and then peppering in my own little spiritual twist on top here and there.

Without respect for the other side, there is no possible way to find an agreement or make progress. Let's also not forget, that the lack of belief, is a belief itself. You all know I'm not christian, but I just use it because it's the easiest example. Say someone doesn't believe in god. Well, they don't simply, not believe in god, they believe that god does not exist. Therefore, they too have a belief, which like all beliefs, can be dangerous. Can you imagine an atheist, or scientologist or whatever else is out there. Out of frustration that people do not believe what they believe (the lack of any kind of god or spiritual things) and shooting up a church or temple or whatever. I can. Because it is the same danger in holding the belief that there is no god, as the danger of believing there is one, and attacking those who don't believe in the god. Using the danger of a belief is a viable point in saying that we should drop religions. But it is a double edged sword, and there are extremist in every group, like it or not. Just like a pro-lifer killing the doctor who performs abortions. Slightly Hypocritical.

I am NOT someone claiming 2+2=5. I very readily accept everyone's views with respect. I am a very rational person, and like I said before if someday they were to prove the benefits of what I believe to be non existent or wrong, I would happily drop what I believe, but it is yet to happen. Please do not try to throw me into the flames for holding a different view than both sides, this is not a 'your with me or against me' scenario, there is some kind of middle ground and I'm in that middle ground, dodging bullets from both sides. Not being christian I've still gone to church once in a blue moon with a friend, and still enjoy the morals of not stealing, killing etc. I still smile and thank them with respect when they bless me or say they will include me in their prayers. I don't think that there is anyone up there they are praying to, even though they believe it, but I still thank them for it. This is not a hard concept. I completely understand that if I hold a belief I should be ready for someone to question it, and I am. What I struggle to grasp is why someone would have such a hard time with me having my belief, when I'm not harming myself or anyone else, quite the opposite actually. When I volunteer, would it really matter if I do it because I enjoy it, and think it would bring good karma (if you do something good only for the sake of good karma, I believe it gives no karma at all) or because I think the people generally need help? Whether it has any attachment to a religious belief or not, you're still doing good. Hate the harmful extremist, not those who are rational, and choose to follow for other reasons that can bring good to them and those around them. Every religion has people who are helpful to society, and appreciate science too.

I think that if we were all together in person talking this out, we are all I think rational people, and we would be able to quickly find things from both sides that we can agree on, and the discussion would be over in like an hour. From there we would go out and grab a bite to eat all smiles and friendly. So why is it so hard to do that on here? Alright my horse is three stories and I'm leaving scuff marks on this soap box. I'm just hoping everyone can understand what I'm saying.

Like I said I was struggling, and still am, with whether or not I should post this. So many of you are so great at arguing your points like pad, that I guess I just have a fear of being shut down. But this is the internet, and I said above that I am willing to hear others views on the subject and that is true. Agree or disagree with my views, but don't let it change your overall view of me as a person.

Just so this doesnt get overlooked...

 

[Heisenberg]

drbrr> you fall back on the word @sdfk "strawman" <div/durrkadurr> because you have no argument against what I have to &dbs say... <br>....lol

I dunno what the formatting code was there for, I cleaned it up.

My argument against what you said preceded my use of the word strawman.

 

[Heisenberg]

Just so this doesnt get overlooked...

I'm curious, which part of his post do you suppose I disagree with?

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

I dunno what the formatting code was there for, I cleaned it up.

My argument against what you said preceded my use of the word strawman.

You are extremely devoted to your world view and want others to understand and accept it by seeking those that disagree.You are an extremist, like it or not. That is not a strawman statement. Read greenswags take on it, he put it in much better words.

 

[dbkick]

[video=youtube;3AfHSv-8XIM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AfHSv-8XIM[/video]