Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Ok so I own a shop now but what happens to my business when we change over to "Libertarian Socialism"?
Lets pretend Im the "electorate", sell me your philosophy.
Layoffs coming...
- Thread starter althor
- Start date
Lets pretend Im the "electorate", sell me your philosophy.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Probably nothing if you treat your employees well and compensate them fairly for their contributions and there continues to be demand for your wares.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
So your "libertarian socialism" is actually just the status quo?
Revolutionary, you truely are a higher thinker.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Ireland must be awesome.
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Yeah it's pretty fucking awesome, the gobshites that run it are the old conservative Christian types but hopefully they die off soon.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
ok,, so im a 5th generation farmer with 3000 acres of wheat under my plow,
i also have 200 acres of pasturage planted with white clover for 100 head of dairy cattle, and 150 acres of alfalfa and sourghum for winter feed
i keep several coops of laying hens a couple pens of hogs and some ducks and geese.
i produce all the food i need for me and my kin, with a surplus i sell in town for a tidy profit, in addition to my long standing contract with the local miller for my wheat.
in turn the miller sells my wheat (which is now HIS flour) to the baker who in turn transforms it into HIS bread (with a little help from my cows and my chickens who made HIS milk and HIS eggs which were MINE before i traded it for some of HIS gold...) and he sells HIS bread to everybody else.
how do you "obviate demand" for my products?
if contracts, transactions and sales are not binding (since you didnt build that) how do we decide who gets what?
does everybody start a farm?
does everybody simply slice off their "fair share" of my farm for themselves?
do my hands get together and vote themselves the right to pick my pocket?
does the government take my land and award it to my hands as "deferred compensation" based on the belief that i didnt pay them enough when they worked for me so i deserve to get fucked?
how small does my farm have to be to fall under the cutoff point for the label "Means of Production" and thus avoid "collectivization" ?
who decides where the cutoff point is, and can they move it around in the future?
how much of my former employee's shit belongs to me now that we are all part of the "collective"?
or do i get to keep my shit until i die and then its all divvied up by the "collective" instead of being passed to my kids and grandkids?
do i get to keep my shit, and pass it down, but any new farmer who works his ass off to start a farm will have to surrender it to the "collective"?
who gets to pick the leaders of the "collective"
what powers do the "collective's" leaders hold?
what keeps the leaders of the "collective from becoming a "government"?
what happens if the "collective's" leaders decide to declare themselves a new noble class and say fuck you "libertarian socialism" we are now all about Nationalist Feudalism?
what if i dont want to play?
what if i say fuck you, i am the overdog of this land,, and my hands and my kin take up arms to defend our little slice of pastoral heaven from the "revolutionary vanguard"?
your story is pretty thin.
i also have 200 acres of pasturage planted with white clover for 100 head of dairy cattle, and 150 acres of alfalfa and sourghum for winter feed
i keep several coops of laying hens a couple pens of hogs and some ducks and geese.
i produce all the food i need for me and my kin, with a surplus i sell in town for a tidy profit, in addition to my long standing contract with the local miller for my wheat.
in turn the miller sells my wheat (which is now HIS flour) to the baker who in turn transforms it into HIS bread (with a little help from my cows and my chickens who made HIS milk and HIS eggs which were MINE before i traded it for some of HIS gold...) and he sells HIS bread to everybody else.
how do you "obviate demand" for my products?
if contracts, transactions and sales are not binding (since you didnt build that) how do we decide who gets what?
does everybody start a farm?
does everybody simply slice off their "fair share" of my farm for themselves?
do my hands get together and vote themselves the right to pick my pocket?
does the government take my land and award it to my hands as "deferred compensation" based on the belief that i didnt pay them enough when they worked for me so i deserve to get fucked?
how small does my farm have to be to fall under the cutoff point for the label "Means of Production" and thus avoid "collectivization" ?
who decides where the cutoff point is, and can they move it around in the future?
how much of my former employee's shit belongs to me now that we are all part of the "collective"?
or do i get to keep my shit until i die and then its all divvied up by the "collective" instead of being passed to my kids and grandkids?
do i get to keep my shit, and pass it down, but any new farmer who works his ass off to start a farm will have to surrender it to the "collective"?
who gets to pick the leaders of the "collective"
what powers do the "collective's" leaders hold?
what keeps the leaders of the "collective from becoming a "government"?
what happens if the "collective's" leaders decide to declare themselves a new noble class and say fuck you "libertarian socialism" we are now all about Nationalist Feudalism?
what if i dont want to play?
what if i say fuck you, i am the overdog of this land,, and my hands and my kin take up arms to defend our little slice of pastoral heaven from the "revolutionary vanguard"?
your story is pretty thin.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Then you'll have power over those who do not have what you inherited.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Capitalism and altruism are incompatible; they are philosophical opposites; they cannot co-exist in the same man or in the same society.
Ayn Rand
Ayn Rand
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so the collective starves since i dont feed thieves and scoundrels.
the collective sure is weak and helpless, since it's dependent on my giving up all my shit at their demand.
anarchy must really suck, since it results in everybody being cold hungry and naked unless the people who HAVE shit just give it away for free.
cool story bro.
the truth:
youll attempt to take my farm by force,, and failing that youll murder the miller and the baker for not being properly "radiucalized" youll "collectivize" the mill and the bakery putting some hipsters in skinny jeans up as the new operators for the "collective" but without the miller's skill to operate and maintain the mill you cant make flour, without the skill of the baker you cant make bread, so the collective eats what bread was on hand in the dead baker's shop,, and when that runs out, it's boiled wheat porridge until the miller's stores of grain run out,, and then you all die if you cant make that final push to get past me and my kin and our rifles.
if by some chance you do overrun my farm,, you dont have the knowledge or skill to run it, so you'll kill and eat all the livestock and my farm will become a flop house for your roving bands of scavenging raiders, as you murder my few surviving neighbors for their last can of spam. nice plan dipshit.
as well thought out as any "anarcho-_____ist" plan ever developed.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
You know what would be worse than this ridiculous slippery slope you've created? Status quo.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
[h=2]"The mind arises and subsides in the mechanics of opportunities"[/h]Deepak Choprah
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Now we are back to where it started, you want to justify a system of socioeconomic stratification because you believe it is natural. I have exposed you for the social darwinist you are.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
yes.
how dare i sell wheat to the miller, how dare i sell meat and eggs and herbs to the grocer, since "i didnt invent that"
how dare the miller turn MY wheat into flour and not give me a piece of the action, since "he didnt grow that"
how dare the baker buy flour from the miller and turn it inot bread since "He didnt mill that"
how dare the grocer sell the baker's bread to me since "he didnt bake that"
how dare i use the miller's monies to buy clothing tools and sundries from other people since "i didnt mint that"
how dare merchants serve as the clearinghouses for the goods produced by others since "they didnt produce that"
how dare people get paid for their work and use those monies to buy what they need and want since "they didnt build that"
how dare anyone adhere to your ill-formed vacuous political brainfart of an ideology when you cannot even explain it sufficiently to sell the plan to the rubes since "you didnt describe that"
oh wait that last one actually kinda makes sense.
transactions and contracts makes the shit im selling into the shit the other guy bought. once it's his, i dont maintain any claim on it, and he holds no claim on what i buy from him.
if you dont like that system, go start a "libertarian socialist" society someplace. im sure youll be super successful
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
good times.
social stratification is the boogey man you fear since you dont have the skills,, knowledge or drive to become one of the productive members of society,, but you think you deserve a piece of their action because you eat,, excrete and can maintain homeostasis.
a fool who inherits great wealth invariably pisses it all away back into the economy, so non-fouls can take a slice of the pie the fool willingly surrenders for tiny handbags, rhinestone iPhone covers and injections of penicillin to combat the many venereal diseases they contract.
want to get rich and start a commune? corner the market on paris hilton's STD medications.
thats libertarian capitalism. it works 100% of the time for about 30% of the people.
unlike "libertarians socialism" which works 0% of the time for 100% of the people since its a fiction.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Actually, I have been a soldier for years, and now I grow cannabis. Those are both skill sets that are in high demand, only one of them is productive though.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Coming from the descendant of an anglo settler who took part in the annihilation of the inhabitants of a continent because they didn't like the system where they were and decided to go somewhere else... no, I think I'll just stay here and keep causing friction.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so you give away all your weed to everybody in need right?
you voluntarily "collectivized" your bedroom closet?
when somebody rips your buds you dont get upset since its like, all held in common dude...
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
ORLY?
you got my genealogy have you?
must be fascinating reading.
maternal line:
grandmother 100% cheyenne all the way back
grand father 100% irish all the way back since his parents left the old country in 1900's
paternal line:
grandfather 50% scots 50% irish since his parents left the old country in the early 1800's
grandmother german and dutch, from pennsylvania amish country after that its kinda fuzzy (yay rumspringa)
dont see much angle or saxony blood in there...
but hey. i guess you must be right, since you were there. every step of the way.
man your fictions get shakier every day.