there was no false statement, there was editing, again, the media is given a lot of leeway with how they present stories.... what harm did it cause?? that he was charged with a crime based on the evidence found? really?? he wasn't charged b/c of the NBC story, he was charged because he chased down a teenager and shot him...
Zimmerman sues NBC
- Thread starter desert dude
- Start date
desert dude
Well-Known Member
He was not charged until after the community was stirred into a frenzy. NBC collaborated in the stirring, although I tend to agree that NBC is not solely responsible for the frenzy. I'd say two million ought to do the trick for NBC.
"there was no false statement,"... "he chased down a teenager and shot him..." Clearly, you don't recognize a false statement even while you type it.
on the phone call he's asked, "are you following him" he responds "yes"... if that's not chasing somebody down i don't know what is....
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Well, the pictures I've seen of Zimmerman weren't exactly flattering.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
The pictures that I've seen don't allow me to conclude or even consider it likely that Trayvon was stronger than Zimmy. But as we're both looking at pictures, I for one will also admit that the pics don't allow for profound or compelling analysis. cn
I agree with the first sentence. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop or whatever, this is part of the training. He went out and followed someone he didn't recognize in a gated community that had recent home invasions. His suspect ran, then came back and jumped him. He got the upper hand on him and was beating his head into the ground and punching him. Zimmerman shot him. At no point would Zimmerman of thought "Oh, he is just a kid." Nor should we have expected him to. If your neighborhood was getting robbed and shot up, would you do something about? Would you depend on the cops?
Why would a CHILD be out walking around alone at night? The simple fact is that Martin was a 17 year old thug except in the pictures they released of when he was 12.
Note: I don't know that the boy in the picture above is actually Trayvon.
Note the tattoos on the CHILD.
Did you read his twitter posts? It is all about shooting bitches and fucking hoes. I mean, come on. If you act like a ghetto thug, you are going to get treated like a ghetto thug.
What the fuck kind of parents let their CHILD out at night in the rain when he is suspended for having drugs at school? One that approves of his sons actions or really just doesn't give a fuck.
This CHILD was old enough to join the military and be handed a machine gun but not old enough to know better than beat some guys ass in the middle of the night instead of going home like he should of.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the photos do not make this clear. However, Martin WAS able to force Zimmerman to the ground and inflict multiple injuries upon him. This proves that Martin was indeed more physically fit than Zimmerman
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I've never read it proven that Martin overwhelmed Zimmerman. There were no trustworthy witnesses iirc. I take each "Martin beat or kicked Zimm" story as not established. cn
It also proves that he thought he could do it or he would not have attacked Zimmerman. It doesn't change the fact that Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman shot Martin because of it. Martin attacking Zimmerman was a felony. Zimmerman was at that point allowed to respond and protect himself. If Zimmerman would not have shot him, Martin would be in jail.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Zimmerman had multiple, visible, and photographed injuries. If you deny physical evidence and give weight to the proven distortions broadcast by the likes of NBC, then don't try to pretend you're being unbiased or logical.
desert dude
Well-Known Member
You don't recall correctly. There were two witnesses who stated that Martin was on top of Z beating him "MMA style".
The only injury on Martin was a single bullet hole in his chest, and skinned knuckles. Multiple photos of Zimm speak for themselves, not to mention the police statement and the EMT statements. If you look at the medical reports on Z and Martin, I don't understand how you can conclude that "Martin beat Zimm" is not established. Seriously, CN, how can you doubt these plain facts?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I only saw one photographed injury (a minimal scalp wound), and it did not have the look of having been earned in any sort of vigorous fight. As I don't get TV programming of any kind, I cannot comment on NBC's presentations. But I don't consider those "multiple injuries" as established in the info we the public get to see. I'm not saying "not possible". I am saying "possibly not"*, and more importantly I don't see as much established fact as you do. cn
*which to a jury is the same thing.
desert dude
Well-Known Member
Here are a couple of photos. Try Google: "photos of Zimmerman's injuries "
"EMT Kevin O'Rourke testified during Zimmerman's bond hearing this morning that "45 percent" of Zimmerman's head had blood on it and that the lacerations on Zimmerman's head "would probably need stitches.""
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-dad-testifies-voice-howling-son/story?id=16672554
"
ABC News Exclusive: Zimmerman Medical Report Shows Broken Nose, Lacerations After Trayvon Martin Shooting"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532
"An autopsy of Trayvon Martin, the black unarmed teenager who was fatally shot by a Florida neighborhood watch volunteer, shows that his body had injuries to the knuckles, while a medical report on the shooter, George Zimmerman, shows that he suffered a broken nose, two black eyes, and cuts on the back of his head, according to a Florida TV news channel and ABC News."
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/16/nation/la-na-nn-injuries-martin-zimmerman-20120516
Nobody in the internet age can plead ignorance except those who want to be ignorant.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
You do know that even minimal scalp injuries bleed like the proverbial stuck pig, right? If you believe this list, the injuries were few and minor. cn
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532
desert dude
Well-Known Member
From your link:
"A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation. "
They don't sound so minor to me. I suppose you invite teenagers over to break your nose, beat your MMA style, and bash your head against the sidewalk just for fun but a fair number of reasonable people, me for example, might consider such an attack to be life threatening.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
So you now admit that Zimmerman's injuries do exist, but claim they are not serious enough for Zimmerman to respond? Should he have waited until Martin had killed him before responding? Your reasoning escapes me.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I otoh consider it completely reasonable defense against an unauthorized jerk chasing me into a corner. It's worth remembering that nobody alive saw the fight except Zimmy himself. Yes, I maintain that those were minor injuries that could have been avoided by simply not confronting Trayvon. cn
In your opinion, what are the established facts in the case?
Here is mine:
1) Two minorities had an altercation and one got fatally shot.
2) The living one has cuts, bruises, and bleeding.
As far as I can tell there is no evidence to the contrary of what Zimmerman says, just wild guesses as to alternatives. I think the absolute best case scenario for the prosecution is that there is a couple black or anti gun people on the jury and they end up with a mistrial. There is no way you are going to get 12 fair people to vote guilty on this. You might get one to vote guilty each time. I guess the question becomes how many times will the state try Zimmerman for a crime they could never hope to convict him for before they get bored or he gets a 'innocent' verdict?
Red1966
Well-Known Member
What corner? Don't pretend Martin had no choice except to attack. All Zimmerman did was ask him a quesstion. Martin wasn't "defending" himself, he was attacking. And there were witnesses to at least some of the fight. And the physical evidence collaborates Zimmerman's statements. To demand crucifixion to satisfy your notion of "Social Justice" is just plain wrong. That you believe attempted murder is justified in this situation clearly disqualifies you to judge anybody.
Zimmerman:
Weve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and theres a real suspicious guy. Its Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like hes up to no good or hes on drugs or something. Its raining and hes just walking around looking about. [00:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. Hes here now hes just staring. [00:42]
911 dispatcher:
Hes just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now hes staring at me. [00:48]
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said thats 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
Thats the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
Hes near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now hes coming toward me. Hes got his hands in his waist band.
And hes a black male.[1:03]
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
Hes got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Somethings wrong with him. Yep, hes coming to check me out.
Hes got something in his hands. I dont know what his deal is. [01:20]
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
911 dispatcher:
Weve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]
911 dispatcher:
OK, so its on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, dont turn and make a left.
Hes running. [2:08]
911 dispatcher:
Hes running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that hes headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We dont need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:
George. He ran.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, whats your last name?
Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher:
Whats the phone number youre calling from?
Zimmerman:
407-435-2400
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes youll see my truck. [3:10]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Zimmerman:
Um, I dont know. Its a cut-through so I dont know the address. [3:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
911 dispatcher:
OK, whats your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
Its a home. Its 1950 oh, crap, I dont want to give it out I dont know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, thats fine. [3:43]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, Ill let them know youll meet them at
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and Ill tell them where Im at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, thats no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number youve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, Ive got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. Ill let them know to call you when theyre in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
Youre welcome.
Call ends 4:07
Key:
A The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B Community mailboxes.
C Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D Brandy Greens Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G Eyewitness Johns townhouse.
Lets take a look at how events unfolded during the original 911 call Zimmerman made to report Trayvon as a suspicious person.
We can match things up on the map with the 911 call pretty much step-by-step.
[a video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg&feature=player_embedded[/video]
0:15 The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 Hes just staring at the houses. Now hes staring at me.
1:00 Hes coming towards me.
1:20 Hes coming to check me out.
2:08 Shit, hes running.
2:14 Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 Hes heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 He ran Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 Call ends.
Heres an estimate of Trayvons route back to Brandy Greens townhouse with 911 call times included:
Martin is initially reported as hanging out near the clubhouse, looking at houses and acting suspiciously. Then he walks by Zimmermans truck at around 1:30 on the 911 call and proceeds east.
At 2:08, Trayvon starts running. Six seconds later, we hear Zimmerman leave his truck to see where he went.
While Trayvon runs south towards Brandy Greens townhouse, Zimmerman continues east, and remains on the line with the 911 dispatcher.
At a slow jogging pace, Trayvon is estimated to have arrived back at Brandy Greens townhouse at around 2:40 on the 911 call.
Trayvon may have gone inside the townhouse, but it seems more likely that he remained outside to see if Zimmerman was still following him and just continued talking to his girlfriend over the next few minutes.
After a few minutes, Trayvon seems to have walked north, back up the sidewalk to confront Zimmerman about why he was followed.
Heres an estimate of Zimmermans route to the main road with 911 call times included:
George Zimmerman leaves his truck at 2:14 and reaches Retreat View Circle just over thirty seconds later at 2:45.
He agrees to stop pursuit at the dispatchers request. After the 911 call is complete, Zimmerman begins to head back to his truck to meet the police. At this point, he claims he was confronted by Trayvon, and walks a few steps down the sidewalk south to respond to him.
As we can see, it appears unlikely that Zimmerman ever chased down Martin. Zimmerman only pursued long enough to maintain visual contact to see what direction Trayvon was going.
Zimmerman traveled his entire route in around 30 seconds, he only went a very short distance and did so specifically to tell the 911 dispatcher where Trayvon had gone.
It wasnt until several minutes later that their altercation took place, when Martin apparently doubled back to confront Zimmerman.
John, the eyewitness who lives in [G], picks up the account from there.
John's eyewitness account:
The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, Help, help. I told him to stop, I was calling 911, John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was laying in the grass. And I believe he was dead at that point, the eyewitness claimed.
Weve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and theres a real suspicious guy. Its Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like hes up to no good or hes on drugs or something. Its raining and hes just walking around looking about. [00:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman:
He looks black.
911 dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. Hes here now hes just staring. [00:42]
911 dispatcher:
Hes just walking around the area, the houses? OK.
Zimmerman:
Now hes staring at me. [00:48]
911 dispatcher:
OK, you said thats 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Zimmerman:
Thats the clubhouse.
911 dispatcher:
Hes near the clubhouse now?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, now hes coming toward me. Hes got his hands in his waist band.
And hes a black male.[1:03]
911 dispatcher:
How old would you say he is?
Zimmerman:
Hes got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.
911 dispatcher:
Late teens?
Zimmerman:
Uh, huh.
Somethings wrong with him. Yep, hes coming to check me out.
Hes got something in his hands. I dont know what his deal is. [01:20]
911 dispatcher:
Let me know if he does anything, OK?
Zimmerman:
OK.
911 dispatcher:
Weve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman:
OK.
These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]
911 dispatcher:
OK, so its on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
Zimmerman:
Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, dont turn and make a left.
Hes running. [2:08]
911 dispatcher:
Hes running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
911 dispatcher:
OK, which entrance is that hes headed towards?
Zimmerman:
The back entrance.
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We dont need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
Zimmerman:
George. He ran.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, whats your last name?
Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.
911 dispatcher:
Whats the phone number youre calling from?
Zimmerman:
407-435-2400
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman:
Yeah.
911 dispatcher:
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes youll see my truck. [3:10]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Zimmerman:
Um, I dont know. Its a cut-through so I dont know the address. [3:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
911 dispatcher:
OK, whats your apartment number?
Zimmerman:
Its a home. Its 1950 oh, crap, I dont want to give it out I dont know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
911 dispatcher:
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Zimmerman:
Yeah, thats fine. [3:43]
911 dispatcher:
Alright, George, Ill let them know youll meet them at
Zimmerman:
Could you have them call me and Ill tell them where Im at? [3:49]
911 dispatcher:
OK, thats no problem.
Zimmerman:
My number youve got it?
911 dispatcher:
Yeah, Ive got it. 435-2400?
Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.
911 dispatcher:
OK, no problem. Ill let them know to call you when theyre in the area. [4:02]
Zimmerman:
Thanks.
911 dispatcher:
Youre welcome.
Call ends 4:07
Key:
A The Clubhouse for Retreat at Twin Lakes.
B Community mailboxes.
C Where George Zimmerman parked his truck.
D Brandy Greens Townhouse, where Trayvon was staying.
E Zimmerman stopped and completed his 911 call for approximately eighty seconds.
F The fight and shooting took place in this area.
G Eyewitness Johns townhouse.
Lets take a look at how events unfolded during the original 911 call Zimmerman made to report Trayvon as a suspicious person.
We can match things up on the map with the 911 call pretty much step-by-step.
[a video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQYg&feature=player_embedded[/video]
0:15 The best address I can give you is the clubhouse. [A]
0:45 Hes just staring at the houses. Now hes staring at me.
1:00 Hes coming towards me.
1:20 Hes coming to check me out.
2:08 Shit, hes running.
2:14 Sound of truck door being closed. [C]
2:20 Hes heading towards the back entrance. [referring to E]
2:25 Are you following him? Yep.
2:45 He ran Zimmerman stops and completes the 911 call. [E]
4:05 Call ends.
Heres an estimate of Trayvons route back to Brandy Greens townhouse with 911 call times included:
Martin is initially reported as hanging out near the clubhouse, looking at houses and acting suspiciously. Then he walks by Zimmermans truck at around 1:30 on the 911 call and proceeds east.
At 2:08, Trayvon starts running. Six seconds later, we hear Zimmerman leave his truck to see where he went.
While Trayvon runs south towards Brandy Greens townhouse, Zimmerman continues east, and remains on the line with the 911 dispatcher.
At a slow jogging pace, Trayvon is estimated to have arrived back at Brandy Greens townhouse at around 2:40 on the 911 call.
Trayvon may have gone inside the townhouse, but it seems more likely that he remained outside to see if Zimmerman was still following him and just continued talking to his girlfriend over the next few minutes.
After a few minutes, Trayvon seems to have walked north, back up the sidewalk to confront Zimmerman about why he was followed.
Heres an estimate of Zimmermans route to the main road with 911 call times included:
George Zimmerman leaves his truck at 2:14 and reaches Retreat View Circle just over thirty seconds later at 2:45.
He agrees to stop pursuit at the dispatchers request. After the 911 call is complete, Zimmerman begins to head back to his truck to meet the police. At this point, he claims he was confronted by Trayvon, and walks a few steps down the sidewalk south to respond to him.
As we can see, it appears unlikely that Zimmerman ever chased down Martin. Zimmerman only pursued long enough to maintain visual contact to see what direction Trayvon was going.
Zimmerman traveled his entire route in around 30 seconds, he only went a very short distance and did so specifically to tell the 911 dispatcher where Trayvon had gone.
It wasnt until several minutes later that their altercation took place, when Martin apparently doubled back to confront Zimmerman.
John, the eyewitness who lives in [G], picks up the account from there.
John's eyewitness account:
The guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, Help, help. I told him to stop, I was calling 911, John told the TV station. Zimmerman was wearing red.
When I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was laying in the grass. And I believe he was dead at that point, the eyewitness claimed.