My Girls are turning Yellow?

C

Clarktek

Member
First post I'm new here and this is my First grow,

So my Girls are turning yellow, I have 3 Clones from a mate "Tootie Fruity Strain" Ive had them for around 2 weeks. I grow in a tent 0.8 x 0.8 x 1.6cms the temperature is rather high as the current weather here is VERY hot, Trying to keep it below 36" c. I have a 6" Centrifugal Can Fan and Carbon filter and inline blowing fresher air in from inside the house. Note the tent is in the Garage under stairs confined space.

I'm using Canna Vega nutes 12ml to 6L and ph in the water is 5.8. I'm using Coco Coir and some perlite mixed in.

The leave are turning yellow from the bottom up, I have also noticed purple color on the stem. What am I doing wrong? Note enough Nute? Too much nute? pH wrong? Burning to a crisp?

I've looked at other sites and it sorta leading me to Nitrogen or Pottasium?
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
Clarktek said:
First post I'm new here and this is my First grow,

So my Girls are turning yellow, I have 3 Clones from a mate "Tootie Fruity Strain" Ive had them for around 2 weeks. I grow in a tent 0.8 x 0.8 x 1.6cms the temperature is rather high as the current weather here is VERY hot, Trying to keep it below 36" c. I have a 6" Centrifugal Can Fan and Carbon filter and inline blowing fresher air in from inside the house. Note the tent is in the Garage under stairs confined space.

I'm using Canna Vega nutes 12ml to 6L and ph in the water is 5.8. I'm using Coco Coir and some perlite mixed in.

The leave are turning yellow from the bottom up, I have also noticed purple color on the stem. What am I doing wrong? Note enough Nute? Too much nute? pH wrong? Burning to a crisp?

I've looked at other sites and it sorta leading me to Nitrogen or Pottasium?
Click to expand...
Pics and more info would help.

But 1) get some proper soil - you're not doing hydro, are you? 2) ph is too low at 5.8 so your plants can't access certain nutrients 3) how much water, how often and how big are the pots and plants? 4) when you put them in some proper soil, stop feeding them 5) are they just discoloured ro are they feeling dry, are leaves curling? pics pics pics and info -
 
Krondizzel

Krondizzel

New Member
Those should still be in dixi cups for one.

For two, looks like a PH issue to me. If your PH is out of whack, you'll have problems.
 
stonerpaddy

stonerpaddy

Active Member
Those Canna Vega nutes are meant for soil and I think they are very high in N. 2ml/L sounds high as well for the stage their at. Also, 36C is very hot for growing. You really should be aiming for around the 27C mark if you can. Spent a lot of this grow battling 5C myself.
pH of 5.8 is perfect in coco.
What brand of coco you using. There seems to be a big gap in quality among the different coco brands.
I would say it's a pH issue and probably best to flush. Gives you a good place to start from.
When flushing keep pH 5.8 and an EC of 0.6 if you have an EC meter.
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
stonerpaddy said:
Those Canna Vega nutes are meant for soil and I think they are very high in N. 2ml/L sounds high as well for the stage their at. Also, 36C is very hot for growing. You really should be aiming for around the 27C mark if you can. Spent a lot of this grow battling 5C myself.
pH of 5.8 is perfect in coco.
What brand of coco you using. There seems to be a big gap in quality among the different coco brands.
I would say it's a pH issue and probably best to flush. Gives you a good place to start from.
When flushing keep pH 5.8 and an EC of 0.6 if you have an EC meter.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to get into an argument over this, but 5.8 is roughly the ph of coir - coir is a product, like moss peat, that has no nutritional value - it's all about texture and water retention. You planted your plants in the wrong medium, it's that simple. If this was a hydro grow, which it isn't, then yes 5.8 would be pretty damn good, but this is a soil grow and 5.8 is way too low, 6.5 is optimum for soil growing, but if you put in in the right medium to begin with you wouldn't need to worry about that. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself just read post 4 again and get them in a proper soil growing medium and stop feeding them - or take the above advice, or carry on with what you're doing and watch them die.
 
stonerpaddy

stonerpaddy

Active Member
jackmac said:
I'm not going to get into an argument over this, but 5.8 is roughly the ph of coir - coir is a product, like moss peat, that has no nutritional value - it's all about texture and water retention. You planted your plants in the wrong medium, it's that simple. If this was a hydro grow, which it isn't, then yes 5.8 would be pretty damn good, but this is a soil grow and 5.8 is way too low, 6.5 is optimum for soil growing, but if you put in in the right medium to begin with you wouldn't need to worry about that. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself just read post 4 again and get them in a proper soil growing medium and stop feeding them - or take the above advice, or carry on with what you're doing and watch them die.
Click to expand...
Coco is a hydroponic growing medium and is being used by a lot of people for growing with exceptional results.
Loads of info on the site about it

https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/225396-official-canna-coco-nutrients-thread.html
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/163510-coco-growers-unite.html
 
cheechako

cheechako

Well-Known Member
jackmac said:
6.5 is optimum for soil growing
Click to expand...
Good to know... if he was doing a soil grow instead of an inert hydroponic substrate. I'm doing coco with a pH of around 5.8 or so, and things are going well. There are plenty of journals and examples of better coco grows than mine.

I'm not sure what the OP's problem is, although 36C (97F) is way too hot!
 
somebody1701

somebody1701

Well-Known Member
You have to get your temps down. Also, you may need to supplement calmag. Until you get your temps under control, it's going to be hard to tell what to do IMO.
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
As far as I know Coco should be used in a PASSIVE hydro medium. It will retain moisture(almost 8x it's water) and nutes more effectively as a PASSIVE medium than say an ACTIVE medium like Lava Rocks or rockwool that drains more readily and effectively. Personally, I'd either set up the coco on a passive wick system or ditch the coco and go with a full active hydro set up.

The rest of this post is from Advanced Nutrients own website and may help you alleviate your plant problems a little.
Numbers vary depending on who's reporting them, but in general, coco coir is known to have a nearly neutral pH balance (average of 6.0-6.7), making it ideal for hydroponic growing because it won't interfere with the balance of your choice of nutrient solutions and supplements.


If the nutrients you're using are not designed to be coco coir safe, you'll not only be missing out on the gigantic yields you could be getting using coco coir... you run the risk poisoning or starving your plants!
It's true that calcium and magnesium both occur naturally in coco coir. But the amounts of each aren't sufficient to feed your plants.
Not only that, but calcium and magnesium are both naturally attracted to bind to coco coir!
Which means only the highest quality, chelated forms of magnesium and calcium (like the kind used in Advanced Nutrients' products) are able to succeed in a growing environment that uses coco coir.
Lesser forms of either will bind to the coir and your plants will be left hungry!
And if your nutrients don't use chelated magnesium and calcium, you're missing out on better yields. (A lot of inferior brands will try to add dolomite lime as a quick-fix to solve this problem, but don't be fooled... it's not effective.)
That's why our calcium and magnesium supplement, Sensi-Cal, has performed so well. It was designed to operate in a less-than-ideal environment and bring everything up to speed.
It's also true that if a hydroponic nutrient or supplement doesn't account for the levels of potassium already present in coco coir, you risk potassium toxicity.With that in mind, it's very important you're sure the hydroponic nutrient products you're buying are coco-coir safe.



LOL! By the way, I am in NO way advertising for Advanced Nutes.. What I posted might help you understand the structure of coco a bit better, which will help you to compensate for the plant with your nutes. IT very well could be that the nutes you're feeding are messing with the calcium and magnesium intake, but, as was previously stated, you won't be able to know this for certain until you lower the temps.
 
somebody1701

somebody1701

Well-Known Member
BenFranklin said:
Not to jump in to the middle of an arguement here, but, please people, look at the differences between PASSIVE hydroponics and ACTIVE hydroponics.

Coco is a PASSIVE hydro medium. It will retain moisture(almost 8x it's water) and nutes more effectively as a PASSIVE medium than say an ACTIVE medium like Lava Rocks or rockwool.

The rest of this post is from Advanced Nutrients own website and may help you alleviate your plant problems a little.

If the nutrients you're using are not designed to be coco coir safe, you'll not only be missing out on the gigantic yields you could be getting using coco coir... you run the risk poisoning or starving your plants!
It's true that calcium and magnesium both occur naturally in coco coir. But the amounts of each aren't sufficient to feed your plants.
Not only that, but calcium and magnesium are both naturally attracted to bind to coco coir!
Which means only the highest quality, chelated forms of magnesium and calcium (like the kind used in Advanced Nutrients' products) are able to succeed in a growing environment that uses coco coir.
Lesser forms of either will bind to the coir and your plants will be left hungry!
And if your nutrients don't use chelated magnesium and calcium, you're missing out on better yields. (A lot of inferior brands will try to add dolomite lime as a quick-fix to solve this problem, but don't be fooled... it's not effective.)
That's why our calcium and magnesium supplement, Sensi-Cal, has performed so well. It was designed to operate in a less-than-ideal environment and bring everything up to speed.
It's also true that if a hydroponic nutrient or supplement doesn't account for the levels of potassium already present in coco coir, you risk potassium toxicity.With that in mind, it's very important you're sure the hydroponic nutrient products you're buying are coco-coir safe.
Click to expand...
In a nutshell, you may need to supplement calmag in coco depending on which nutes you are using.
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
Like I said. Get some proper soil and none of this would have happened. Either you're doing hydro or you're doing soil. For me, you've got a hydro medium, but you're treating it like a soil medium. Ph too low, unchelated minerals are not available or being made available because the medium is lacking the required organics - amino acids - to lock onto the minerals and make them available to the plant- so you have to provide it in chelated form (the mineral). I think the op is caught between two methods and the plants are suffering as a result. I still recommend proper soil and water and you wouldn't be here with a bunch of sick looking plants - it doesn't need to be that complicated. But hey - I don't know what I'm talking about.

And yes, it's too hot, obviously - but it doesn't look like that's what's showing on the plants - what's showing on the plants is that they're in the wrong medium, the ph is too low and there's incorrect treatment for the medium they're in.
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
jackmac wrote: Either you're doing hydro or you're doing soil.

OR you're doing "passive hydroponics" with a "wick system", which is really where the coco excels.. Passive hydro is that ever fine line between doing soil and hydro, and when you get it dialed in, it can be VERY effective. You can set your plants up for a month and walk away without worry.

Passive systems are great for truck drivers who are gone for a couple weeks at a time. (per. Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible. by Jorge Cervantes)


And I totally agree with you jack...

Personally, i'd get off the fence and go full hydro, but, we don't know all the circumstances around this grow so any suggestions would assume "liberal growing conditions'. (know what i mean?)
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
BenFranklin said:
As far as I know Coco should be used in a PASSIVE hydro medium. It will retain moisture(almost 8x it's water) and nutes more effectively as a PASSIVE medium than say an ACTIVE medium like Lava Rocks or rockwool that drains more readily and effectively. Personally, I'd either set up the coco on a passive wick system or ditch the coco and go with a full active hydro set up.

The rest of this post is from Advanced Nutrients own website and may help you alleviate your plant problems a little.
Numbers vary depending on who's reporting them, but in general, coco coir is known to have a nearly neutral pH balance (average of 6.0-6.7), making it ideal for hydroponic growing because it won't interfere with the balance of your choice of nutrient solutions and supplements.


If the nutrients you're using are not designed to be coco coir safe, you'll not only be missing out on the gigantic yields you could be getting using coco coir... you run the risk poisoning or starving your plants!
It's true that calcium and magnesium both occur naturally in coco coir. But the amounts of each aren't sufficient to feed your plants.
Not only that, but calcium and magnesium are both naturally attracted to bind to coco coir!
Which means only the highest quality, chelated forms of magnesium and calcium (like the kind used in Advanced Nutrients' products) are able to succeed in a growing environment that uses coco coir.
Lesser forms of either will bind to the coir and your plants will be left hungry!
And if your nutrients don't use chelated magnesium and calcium, you're missing out on better yields. (A lot of inferior brands will try to add dolomite lime as a quick-fix to solve this problem, but don't be fooled... it's not effective.)
That's why our calcium and magnesium supplement, Sensi-Cal, has performed so well. It was designed to operate in a less-than-ideal environment and bring everything up to speed.
It's also true that if a hydroponic nutrient or supplement doesn't account for the levels of potassium already present in coco coir, you risk potassium toxicity.With that in mind, it's very important you're sure the hydroponic nutrient products you're buying are coco-coir safe.



LOL! By the way, I am in NO way advertising for Advanced Nutes.. What I posted might help you understand the structure of coco a bit better, which will help you to compensate for the plant with your nutes. IT very well could be that the nutes you're feeding are messing with the calcium and magnesium intake, but, as was previously stated, you won't be able to know this for certain until you lower the temps.
Click to expand...

Hey Ben, think you're right on this - but your quote from Ad Nuts is well, nuts - this is half the problem with these things - just look at what they're saying and read between the lines - growing in coir is a fuckin pain in the arse. And, as a soiless medium it's pretty poor when compared to something that's been around a whole lot longer - sphagnum moss peat.
Add to that things like: Numbers vary depending on who's reporting them, but in general, coco coir is known to have a nearly neutral pH balance (average of 6.0-6.7), making it ideal for hydroponic growing because it won't interfere with the balance of your choice of nutrient solutions and supplements. And you know you've got a problem - that is a load of bollocks! Coconut coir has a ph range of 5.3 - 6.1, it's often full of sodium, so needs washing, and if the people who are supposed to know - people like Ad Nuts - are giving this kind of information then it's no wonder people are confused. And, if a ph of 6-6.7 is 'nearly neutral' - then I'm a fukin tea pot. Ph 6.7 is nearly neutral, 6.0 is most definitely not.
Coco coir can cause problems with your plant's ability to source calcium, potassium and magnesium. This can happen if you’ve bought cheap coco coir (a lot of sodium laid in it - must be pre-washed), or if you’re using most hydroponics nutrients. You’ll even see some manufacturers trying to sell you coir-specific nutrients…but they don’t often work well. The whole thing is a minefield and requires lots of money spent on bottles of this that and the other.
I could go on for a while, but I don't know what I'm talking about!
 
BenFranklin

BenFranklin

Well-Known Member
I knew there was a reason I didn't like coir and didn't use it... Just couldn't remember what it was that I was warned about to stay away from it.

It is the sodium...

Yeh Jack, it seems like it's a lot of messing around for something that doesn't need a lot of messing with...

If I was to set up another passive system.. I'd still opt for perlite and soil, 50|50 with wicks and stay away from the coir.. adding soil just for a bit of weight and an air stone in the reservoir. Which in the end you say to yourself... "Why not just eliminate the stupid soil|Perlite and go with lava rocks... and an air stone, get rid of the wicks".... LOL!
 
J

jackmac

Active Member
Right on.

The op is a first time grower - best advice is to keep it simple! Ben, you're clearly a hydro advocate - I speak for soil - but either way, the op needs to get off the fence and go one way or the other. For me, soil is more forgiving of any mistakes, and we learn more from our mistakes than we do successes because mistakes mean we need to find solutions...op, you've made a mistake (that's not a criticism, everyone makes them), you've got quite a few responses to your issue - so what's your solution going to be? You're the only one can make that decision - what do you think?
 
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