first thread here hope i don't get criticised too bad. got a question about builing my grow box. I have a pretty good idea as to how to put it together.., nothing fancy, as a matter of fact it's pretty cheap. I'm going to use CFL's..and I'm wondering if I should paint the inside flat white..., or I was thinking of lining it with White freezer paper. Question is, If i use the freezer paper...should i go with shiney side out or dull side out! Thanks!!
Shiney side or Dull side
- Thread starter Gabuzo
- Start date
SiliconeBud
Active Member
I'm not sure what freezer paper is but I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and suggest using the shiny side. Reason, you're using CFL bulbs and anything to help with reflecting the light back to the plant can't hurt.
Cheers
- SB -
Cheers
- SB -
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
...skip the paper and just paint man, paper, water and electricity isn't a good combo to begin with and even if nothing else happens the paper won't hold up for shit in a semi-damp grow-room environment.
peace, bozo
btw, here is some info that should help you make your decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foylon:
A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomeric paint (info by furun) (this is my personal favorite and i dilute it down with flat white paint)
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ Lowe's Home Improvement: Buy Kitchen Cabinets, Paint, Appliances & Flooring
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or dont want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenters nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
peace, bozo
btw, here is some info that should help you make your decision.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foylon:
A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.
A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.
A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.
Mylar:
A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.
C3 anti-detection film:
A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.
Flat white paint:
Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.
Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.
Elastomeric paint (info by furun) (this is my personal favorite and i dilute it down with flat white paint)
A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.
Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)
Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ Lowe's Home Improvement: Buy Kitchen Cabinets, Paint, Appliances & Flooring
White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):
"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or dont want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.
The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.
If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenters nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.
Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):
This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.
It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.
Emergency Blankets:
These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.
It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.
The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.
Aluminum Foil:
Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
falonvanderwall
Member
Get back/white poly, get your hydro store to cut it so you dont have to buy a roll, likely cheaper then paint
LadyJane420
Member
For around $150 you can buy a nice grow tent with reflective material. The Secret Jardin tents are real nice.
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
falonvanderwall
Member
Right, actually i did read it many times, am i missing something? Just because i didnt tell you to use what you wanted to use, i gave you new ideas, better also, maybe you should read my posts and not throw names out there, whatcha think? Since you say your new and this is my career, im guessing you shouod atleast consider what i suggest, if you dont want suggestions, perhaps dont ask,so paint away, excited to see how it goes
falonvanderwall
Member
Ha, you werent throwing names its your name, im sorry, now im embarrassed, but still, use poly, paper is not good and paint is messy
falonvanderwall
Member
I also now see that that wasnt the op, i just read your post it was great, sorry about that people, i thought the op was calling me a bozo and basically calling me an idiot, i guess i smoked to much, lol anyways....nice to meet you bozo, again i appologize, great post
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
yeah man, i'm not new, the original poster is and while you seem enamored with the panda plastic, paint is way more permanent and way easier to keep clean, ...and at $15.00 a gallon the Elastomeric paint is also cheaper than panda while at the same time being mildew resistant AND waterproof.
...i posted the article to provide information and if you actually do read it you'll see the Elastomeric paint is also more reflective than the panda.
i have a hundred foot roll of the panda, 10feet x 100feet, and i still say the paint is the better choice.
bozo
...i posted the article to provide information and if you actually do read it you'll see the Elastomeric paint is also more reflective than the panda.
i have a hundred foot roll of the panda, 10feet x 100feet, and i still say the paint is the better choice.
bozo
falonvanderwall
Member
I will say that i do also at 15 a gallon, im not sure where you live, but if its 15 here il be getting some, i must ask, as one location is a rental, could it pass off as normal paint afterwards? Or will it be noticeable? 15 a gallon is an incredible price, scratch the poly lol
falonvanderwall
Member
I guess i just liked the poly as its easy to replace if things get ungly, but the paint sounds washable and mold resistant so i would rather not hang poly every crop if not needed, i use poly on my tables aswell so it was just easy, however with the paint id save considerably over time as poly in rolls isnt the cheapest, i just fiquired for a small little area if the hydro store will cut it as mine will it would be a few dollars
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
if you look in the roofing department of Lowes or Home Depot you'll find the elastomeric paint as it is sold as a roofing leak patch, for trailers and such, and i just bought a gallon about 4 months ago and it was still only $15.00 a gallon.
...it's a little thick to work with straight which is why i like to cut it down a bit with flat white paint but it's water based so you can thin it with just a little water if you want.
peace, bozo
btw, Lowes carries the Koolseal stuff and another brand called Black Jack so just make sure whatever one you get that it's elastomeric aka rubberized and that it's white.
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
...here's a link to my motherbox build from about 4 years ago and if you read it you'll see i painted the whole interior with the Koolseal i think, ...it's been a long time, lol, ...anyway, that box has been going strong, 24/7 with that paint for all of this time and still no leaks.
justanother DIY, T5, stealth, micro-cab, bozo style!
peace, bozo
justanother DIY, T5, stealth, micro-cab, bozo style!
peace, bozo
falonvanderwall
Member
Whoa! Thats awesome, ive never seen anything like it, it just looks like an old dresser lol thats a really good idea if one needs to be stealth, or lives in the us
justanotherbozo
Well-Known Member
...lol, yeah man, that's me, i live in the US and so i needed stealth, here's a look at my first budding chamber and a link to that build too.
justanother stealth, DIY, 2x 150 HPS bud box, ...bozo style!
...the original build was with 2x 150HPS.
...the upgrade was to a 400CMH, that's why the light is a different color.
peace, bozo
falonvanderwall
Member
I love it, you cant even see wires coming out of it! Beats the hell out of those flimsy tents they sell, not to mention a tent is pretty heatscore lol im amazed atthe stealtness you have there, did you do okay? And much better after the upgrade?
falonvanderwall
Member
I need one! The size of a house