Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

[PJ Diaz]

Things sure we're a lot more peaceful during the past week when Uncle Ben wasn't around. Dude sure does like to pick fights. Pretty lame imo.

We all already know how you feel, Uncle Ben. Your rude remarks don't make anyone want to embrace your knowledge with open arms. In fact it's just the opposite. If you want respect you need to show respect. It's quite simple really.

This coming from a hypocritical nutjob who hijacked one of my threads (he trolls them all), ran up 4 pages of troll posts with his dysfunctional misfit friends...... which induced potroast to close it. The last FOUR pages tell it all. https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/570037-so-you-noobs-hooked-cannabis-18.html


Hope that helps,
UB

I want to be your personal penguin. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[joe blow greenthumb]

really? ignorant arguing?? show me the ignorant arguing that made me miss it please

Sorry but I'm not biting. Have a great day all!

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

Sorry but I'm not biting. Have a great day all!

yup, just as I thought... next!!

 

[bde0001]

UB, you're gonna be proud of me when you see my baby finished. I used your topping technique. I have 4 main tops. Vegging the shit outta her in a 10 gal pot and will have her and only her under my 400 watt hps come flowering time. I expect to have thick buds.

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

to all the noobs out there, I'm putting this out there just to set the record straight... UB didn't create the topping technique. it's been around forever. UB is just a dude who shared the topping technique on the internet, that is all


knowledge is power

 

[Uncle Ben]

UB, you're gonna be proud of me when you see my baby finished. I used your topping technique. I have 4 main tops. Vegging the shit outta her in a 10 gal pot and will have her and only her under my 400 watt hps come flowering time. I expect to have thick buds.

Just don't do anything funny like push bloom foods which always results in loss of leaves. Keep the leaves green and healthy until harvest even if it means giving them a high N food until harvest. I had a really good yield on outdoor plants last year. They got a slow release 18-4-8 with micros from start to finish. I played with a few hits of a bloom food (low N) and they let me know quickly they didn't like it.

Read your plants.

Love your dog. Is that a Skipperke?

Good luck,
UB

 

[Uncle Ben]

to all the noobs out there, I'm putting this out there just to set the record straight... UB didn't create the topping technique. it's been around forever. UB is just a dude who shared the topping technique on the internet, that is all

knowledge is power

The only thing you set straight is your need to discredit me.

FAIL

I created the 4 cola topping method for cannabis described in my pinned thread. Until then everyone was doing one main cola, or 8 little colas by topping too high, SCROG, FIM (Fuck I Missed) and such. I taught my topping technique before current day internet service on a newsgroup called ADPC. I also taught the cloning technique called air layering, a practice unknown and not practiced by cannabis growers. There have been many others....

Training methods known as "topping" have been around forever. It takes on many forms depending on the plant material, and no, that's not new.

UB

 

[keebo3000]

UB, you're gonna be proud of me when you see my baby finished. I used your topping technique. I have 4 main tops. Vegging the shit outta her in a 10 gal pot and will have her and only her under my 400 watt hps come flowering time. I expect to have thick buds.

where can i find the scientific documentation on topping and FIMimg? oh i forgot they came along from experimenting.

 

[Uncle Ben]

I still experiment. What's your point?

 

[Sincerely420]

I like how some loosely throw around the word "energy". What in the hell is that? Cosmc energy? "Energy" you get from pyramids, crystals, and the alignment of the stars?

Maybe "horsepower" would be better. Yeah, that's it! My plants have more horsepower because I don't screw around with their engines!

UB

Personally.....This just me....Notice I started this with personally....

I recognize that my grow is my art. I don't care if you harvest more or have grown more plants or have a better set up or WHATEVER. I don't give one....
But my grow is my art...Not yours...What I wanna do with my leaves has nothing to do with you.

You don't like what I have to say....State why..You wanna argue the other side of my argument...Be my guests...Just do it.
Do so knowing your feelings don't involve me.

What I meant with that statement was I HAD lots of smaller leaves and flower sites under my canopy that I figured wouldn't grow into anything, so I took em out.
I did it so that the plant can focus its energy on the already established flower sites...
I'm using CFLs and a couple of 150w HPS's.....For my own personal stash...Ain't cash cropping.
Based on what I've seen AND READ, those leaves that aren't getting adequate light due to my setup, or lack thereof, die off.
Those leaves under the canopy that aren't gonna do anything useful for me....They had to go. IMO "they're just sapping enerygy".

Reading in between the lines of what anyone types won't do you any good.
I didn't mean to portray myself tossing around the word energy...Wasn't aware that I did.

BUT if YOUR plants have MORE "horsepower" because you don't screw with their "engines".....
Sounds like you wanna say FAN LEAVES ARE PRODUCERS and DEFINITELY NOT LIGHT BLOCKERS.

At this point i'm set on them being a both producers and light blockers so that's that..
And whoever chimed in...I've learned that light passes thru leaves, but not to what degree, so I do what I do..
Again, it is my art. As well as my opinion.

Are fan leaves producers or light blockers?
-state what you think and why.

 

[Thundercat]

Lol I stumbled across this thread this morning and was reading some of the begining, and it quickly turned into a bitch fest. Now I'm not takeing any sides or even gonna anem names because anyone involved knows it. I'm just saying that this thread should have died or been killed about 80 pages ago, and I can't believe that the same people are here still bitching and fighting about the same stuff.

Now I have talked to most of you guys over the years, and consider myself a friend of all but the trolls. So considering the love our plants all need, and that the whole marijuana movement needs to embrace, I leave you with this.....Can't we all just smoke a bong. Its not original, but it would make the whole world a better place.

 

[Sincerely420]

Haha this thread is POPPING!


SO WHAT ARE FAN LEAVES?!

 

[keebo3000]

I still experiment. What's your point?

no point. but you get really peeved when newbies experiment, when you ran your experiments did you have a lot of naysayers saying nay? do you agree that experience, whether good or bad is the best teacher?

 

[PJ Diaz]

to all the noobs out there, I'm putting this out there just to set the record straight... UB didn't create the topping technique. it's been around forever. UB is just a dude who shared the topping technique on the internet, that is all

knowledge is power

The only thing you set straight is your need to discredit me.

FAIL

I created the 4 cola topping method for cannabis described in my pinned thread. Until then everyone was doing one main cola, or 8 little colas by topping too high, SCROG, FIM (Fuck I Missed) and such. I taught my topping technique before current day internet service on a newsgroup called ADPC. I also taught the cloning technique called air layering, a practice unknown and not practiced by cannabis growers. There have been many others....

Training methods known as "topping" have been around forever. It takes on many forms depending on the plant material, and no, that's not new.

UB

I topped my first ganja plant over 20 years ago. There's no way you invented that technique. You're fooling yourself into inventing that technique.

 

[Sincerely420]

Damn LOL! Now that everyones been irked haha!

How do we feel about fan leaves???? Hahaha

Any opinions??

*haha and it's funny ppl can give there two cents about the "bitch fight" but not about fan leaves and leaves in general...
Thundercat.

 

[Thundercat]

really... that caused you an issue?

Well my opinion on fan leaves is that they are producers if they have light getting to them.
That they are storage containers if they do not have light getting to them.
And that they are a waste of energy and space and I usually trim gradually if:
1. They are damaged in almost any way.
2. They are not getting light and are causing and airflow issues, especially in cases of scrogs or cabinet grows.
or
3. They are huge and are shading LOTS of bud sites, given that the plant has plenty of other foliage.

I grow in prolly one of the least natural ways possible. I grow single cola plants in hydro, with stone medium, and chemical nutes. I usually lollipop my girls, but I don't do it all at once, I'll take the bottom 30-40 % of my plants off gradually over a few weeks. Even with my 1000w, I've noticed the differance in how the plants preform, and I get much nicer good dense single colas if I do lollipop. Typically I yeild between 20-30g with each of them, I'm ok with that and the smoke is top notch. I have tried running smaller plants that I have topped, and have gotten similar overall results. When I lollipop I do try to leave as many healthy leaves as possible as long as they are getting light, I just take off the branchs.

Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is different strokes for different folks. I think one of the biggest differences to look at here is I grow indoor hydro. My plants don't take nutes from the soil, and they shouldn't have to pull them from the storage leaves that aren't getting light. They should have all the possible food they need between the 1kw 14" away and the waterings.

What else would you like input on It seemed like both opinions had been discussed, I suppose mine is somewhere in the middle. I often find that I like the best of both worlds

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

im sure your right, assuming your friend was a drooling idiot (birds of a feather etc,,,etc)
but as im sure you've seen on this thread there are those whom have and continue to do with great success, i know , i know anyone who dosent agree with is an idiot right? here is a medical grower who defoliates... look closely... well past all his thriving plants to see drool.. it's gotta be there [video=youtube_share;alRSi2BwUT8]http://youtu.be/alRSi2BwUT8[/video]

there is nothing wrong with not knowing and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to find out for yourself, there, however is something wrong with insulting those that do want to find out for themselves. "ignorance is bliss" so i guess i don't have to tell you to have a good day. my bet is you always have them

When you take leaves off you decrease photosynthesis. When you decrease photosynthesis, you decrease carbohydrate production. When you decrease carbohydrate production, you decrease yield. You can't take energy from the plant and increase growth. Energy and growth are not mutually exclusive. Your whole premise is based on Beavis and Butthead ignorance. There are many, many scientific studies that document the relationship between defoliation and the accompanying decreases in yield.

"A study on sunflower (Helianthus annus) demons-trated that defoliation could not affect stem diameter and
plant height, but disk flower diameter, filled grains
percentage, one thousand seed weight, harvesting index
and grain yield affected by the every defoliation treat-
ments. Middle leaves of the stem have most important
role than the other leaves because of greater surface and
active participation in the photosynthesis. 100 percent
defoliation was lead to minimum yield of seeds comp-
ared to control because of decrease in grain weight and
filled grain percent (Abbaspour et al., 2001). Results of
many studies about effects of defoliation on seed yield of
sunflower showed that increase of defoliation intensity
and defoliation near flowering stage was lead to decrease
in seed yield because of decreasing in the photosynthetic
surface"

"Defoliation decreases yield by reduction of plantphotosynthesis, reduced light interception, reduction of stored dry matter caused by leaf area loss and
reduction of the filling period (Hinson et al., 1978; Ingram et al., 1981)."


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:SArSiVd8eesJ:www.cropj.com/sedaghat_4_1_2010_9_15.pdf+defoliation+decreases+yield&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj4eYgXnrOvwxFvf2TvpnHjR3rGjyrafFIppGSnStOWkNpsOhPkuUrwYgZUDRIrMOp-0e8hp7pB0bbUkBKFYRMlXrSat4vTXKwe9aH8ULIFZW5GTiW-OnNf5knNdcuV5GtPu5Y7&sig=AHIEtbTNXfsjKc8RSKyUESuwYVwf8HJwsw

There are endless scientific studies on this subject going back decades. Every scientific study comes to the same conclusion. Decreasing foliage decreases yield.

Decrease the energy going into the plant and you decrease the growth of the plant. It's simple math. 5 - 2 does not equal 6. It equals 4.

 

[Sincerely420]

really... that caused you an issue?

Well my opinion on fan leaves is that they are producers if they have light getting to them.
That they are storage containers if they do not have light getting to them.
And that they are a waste of energy and space and I usually trim gradually if:
1. They are damaged in almost any way.
2. They are not getting light and are causing and airflow issues, especially in cases of scrogs or cabinet grows.
or
3. They are huge and are shading LOTS of bud sites, given that the plant has plenty of other foliage.

I grow in prolly one of the least natural ways possible. I grow single cola plants in hydro, with stone medium, and chemical nutes. I usually lollipop my girls, but I don't do it all at once, I'll take the bottom 30-40 % of my plants off gradually over a few weeks. Even with my 1000w, I've noticed the differance in how the plants preform, and I get much nicer good dense single colas if I do lollipop. Typically I yeild between 20-30g with each of them, I'm ok with that and the smoke is top notch. I have tried running smaller plants that I have topped, and have gotten similar overall results. When I lollipop I do try to leave as many healthy leaves as possible as long as they are getting light, I just take off the branchs.

Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is different strokes for different folks. I think one of the biggest differences to look at here is I grow indoor hydro. My plants don't take nutes from the soil, and they shouldn't have to pull them from the storage leaves that aren't getting light. They should have all the possible food they need between the 1kw 14" away and the waterings.

What else would you like input on It seemed like both opinions had been discussed, I suppose mine is somewhere in the middle. I often find that I like the best of both worlds

Nada...Nailed it...Appreciate ya

 

[PJ Diaz]

im sure your right, assuming your friend was a drooling idiot (birds of a feather etc,,,etc)
but as im sure you've seen on this thread there are those whom have and continue to do with great success, i know , i know anyone who dosent agree with is an idiot right? here is a medical grower who defoliates... look closely... well past all his thriving plants to see drool.. it's gotta be there [video=youtube_share;alRSi2BwUT8]http://youtu.be/alRSi2BwUT8[/video]

there is nothing wrong with not knowing and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to find out for yourself, there, however is something wrong with insulting those that do want to find out for themselves. "ignorance is bliss" so i guess i don't have to tell you to have a good day. my bet is you always have them

When you take leaves off you decrease photosynthesis. When you decrease photosynthesis, you decrease carbohydrate production. When you decrease carbohydrate production, you decrease yield. You can't take energy from the plant and increase growth. Energy and growth are not mutually exclusive. Your whole premise is based on Beavis and Butthead ignorance. There are many, many scientific studies that document the relationship between defoliation and the accompanying decreases in yield.

"A study on sunflower (Helianthus annus) demons-trated that defoliation could not affect stem diameter and
plant height, but disk flower diameter, filled grains
percentage, one thousand seed weight, harvesting index
and grain yield affected by the every defoliation treat-
ments. Middle leaves of the stem have most important
role than the other leaves because of greater surface and
active participation in the photosynthesis. 100 percent
defoliation was lead to minimum yield of seeds comp-
ared to control because of decrease in grain weight and
filled grain percent (Abbaspour et al., 2001). Results of
many studies about effects of defoliation on seed yield of
sunflower showed that increase of defoliation intensity
and defoliation near flowering stage was lead to decrease
in seed yield because of decreasing in the photosynthetic
surface"

"Defoliation decreases yield by reduction of plantphotosynthesis, reduced light interception, reduction of stored dry matter caused by leaf area loss and
reduction of the filling period (Hinson et al., 1978; Ingram et al., 1981)."


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:SArSiVd8eesJ:www.cropj.com/sedaghat_4_1_2010_9_15.pdf+defoliation+decreases+yield&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj4eYgXnrOvwxFvf2TvpnHjR3rGjyrafFIppGSnStOWkNpsOhPkuUrwYgZUDRIrMOp-0e8hp7pB0bbUkBKFYRMlXrSat4vTXKwe9aH8ULIFZW5GTiW-OnNf5knNdcuV5GtPu5Y7&sig=AHIEtbTNXfsjKc8RSKyUESuwYVwf8HJwsw

There are endless scientific studies on this subject going back decades. Every scientific study comes to the same conclusion. Decreasing foliage decreases yield.

Decrease the energy going into the plant and you decrease the growth of the plant. It's simple math. 5 - 2 does not equal 6. It equals 4.

Believe it or not, some scientific studies have shown the opposite. Links to those studies have already been posted in this thread.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Are fan leaves producers or light blockers?
-state what you think and why.

I did. Recommend you read the thread and the Lollipopping one.

UB