common sense gun control, a solution looking for a problem

[NoDrama]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...rained-citizens-bad-idea&WT.mc_id=SA_Facebook


Great article by Michael Shermer.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 31,672 people died by guns in 2010 (the most recent year for which U.S. figures are available), a staggering number that is orders of magnitude higher than that of comparable Western democracies. What can we do about it? National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre believes he knows: “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” If LaPierre means professionally trained police and military who routinely practice shooting at ranges, this observation would at least be partially true. If he means armed private citizens with little to no training, he could not be more wrong.

Consider a 1998 study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery that found that “every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.” Pistol owners' fantasy of blowing away home-invading bad guys or street toughs holding up liquor stores is a myth debunked by the data showing that a gun is 22 times more likely to be used in a criminal assault, an accidental death or injury, a suicide attempt or a homicide than it is for self-defense. I harbored this belief for the 20 years I owned a Ruger .357 Magnum with hollow-point bullets designed to shred the body of anyone who dared to break into my home, but when I learned about these statistics, I got rid of the gun.

More insights can be found in a 2013 book from Johns Hopkins University Press entitled Reducing Gun Violence in America: Informing Policy with Evidence and Analysis, edited by Daniel W. Webster and Jon S. Vernick, both professors in health policy and management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. In addition to the 31,672 people killed by guns in 2010, another 73,505 were treated in hospital emergency rooms for nonfatal bullet wounds, and 337,960 nonfatal violent crimes were committed with guns. Of those 31,672 dead, 61 percent were suicides, and the vast majority of the rest were homicides by people who knew one another.

For example, of the 1,082 women and 267 men killed in 2010 by their intimate partners, 54 percent were shot by guns. Over the past quarter of a century, guns were involved in greater number of intimate partner homicides than all other causes combined. When a woman is murdered, it is most likely by her intimate partner with a gun. Regardless of what really caused Olympic track star Oscar Pistorius to shoot his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp (whether he mistook her for an intruder or he snapped in a lover's quarrel), her death is only the latest such headline. Recall, too, the fate of Nancy Lanza, killed by her own gun in her own home in Connecticut by her son, Adam Lanza, before he went to Sandy Hook Elementary School to murder some two dozen children and adults. As an alternative to arming women against violent men, legislation can help: data show that in states that prohibit gun ownership by men who have received a domestic violence restraining order, gun-caused homicides of intimate female partners have been reduced by 25 percent.

Another myth to fall to the facts is that gun-control laws disarm good people and leave the crooks with weapons. Not so, say the Johns Hopkins authors: “Strong regulation and oversight of licensed gun dealers—defined as having a state law that required state or local licensing of retail firearm sellers, mandatory record keeping by those sellers, law enforcement access to records for inspection, regular inspections of gun dealers, and mandated reporting of theft of loss of firearms—was associated with 64 percent less diversion of guns to criminals by in-state gun dealers.”

Finally, before we concede civilization and arm everyone to the teeth pace the NRA, consider the primary cause of the centuries-long decline of violence as documented by Steven Pinker in his 2011 book The Better Angels of Our Nature: the rule of law by states that turned over settlement of disputes to judicial courts and curtailed private self-help justice through legitimate use of force by police and military trained in the proper use of weapons.

80% of all your gun statistics are SUICIDES!!!

Suicide is already illegal, but it doesn't seem to matter that suicide by gun is THE MOST POPULAR CHOICE! WHY? Quick, easy and Painless.

Whose to say what those depressed people might have done with no access to guns. Step in front of a bus, jump off a building, kill others first, become a terrorist, learn how to make bombs??? The list of horrors is endless.

If it weren't for guns that depressed guy from the office who killed himself might have decided everyone else was to blame and committed heinous acts of atrocious terrorism.

Guns lead the way in removing these almost terrorists and mass murderers from the general population.

 

[NoDrama]

Common sense gun control is finger off trigger and safety on.

Just IMO.

yep,

it's also pointing the gun in a safe direction except when engaging targets. By doing that you eliminate all accidents.

Safeties are a crutch, shoot yourself in the foot with a Colt SAA and you learn to keep that 6th chamber empty and the hammer down on it.

Safeties are for people who cannot learn this maxim.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

2 percent?

doesn't sound like they are exactly "in common use", meaning that a ban on them would be consistent with the second as per the heller decision.

is there any reason why a civilian needs military style firepower?

Civilians don't generally have military style firepower. It's prohibitively expensive and illegal in most places. The police? That's another story.

 

[UncleBuck]

... people that buy them legally and are able to handle them safely never hurt anyone unless confronted in a life or death situation...

well, that's just not true.

the AR15 used in the oregon mall shooting was purchased legally and handled as safe as the law required, then the dude's friend took it and went and shot up people at the mall here.

the AR15 used in the newtown massacre was purchased legally and handled as safe as the law required, then the chick's son took it and went and put a whoie bunch of bullet holes in some kindergarteners.

the AR15 used in the aurora massacre was purchased legally and james holmes sure knew how to handle it safely, but he chose to unload on a theater full of moviegoers instead.

the rest of what you said was too reasonable for me to want to address.

 

[UncleBuck]

Civilians don't generally have military style firepower. It's prohibitively expensive and illegal in most places. The police? That's another story.

and after that display of force, anyone who says that their AR15 is gonna keep the gubbmint at bay is just gonna seem even more wicked retahded.

 

[UncleBuck]

Jared Loughner shooting up classrooms of kindergarteners? Really? When and where did this happen?

Lay off the booze and whores, Buck. Jared Loughner did not shoot anybody in a class room.

my bad, what with all the very well equipped mass murderers we have nowadays, a man can get confused. and i do believe someone spiked my tobacco last night, it looked green and orange and crystalline and made me behave in lethargic and food-driven ways.*

very odd.

anyhoo, you are right. jared loughner was the one who took his semi automatic pistol with high capacity mags to go massacre people, including kids, in a safeway parking lot, only to be stopped not by the good guy with a gun, but by the act of trying to change the high capacity mag.

it was adam lanza who made sure to have a new high capacity mag between each classroom as he went about slaughtering kindergarteners and their teachers.

thanks you for correcting me.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

and after that display of force, anyone who says that their AR15 is gonna keep the gubbmint at bay is just gonna seem even more wicked retahded.

Or you're ignorant to reality.

Know when most regimes crumble? When troops refuse to follow orders. Troops aren't gonna be too likely to fire on Americans if they start to realize their government is on the wrong side of the equation.

If they meet armed resistance they will start to question why this is happening. If they don't, they will be significantly more likely to blindly follow orders as long as they continue to be paid and relatively well taken care of. Not unlike every other tyrannical regime in history.

Also, for their lack of weaponry, there was serious resistance and still is wherever the United States military has decided to aggressively occupy.

 

[UncleBuck]

Historical evidence from the time of the formation of the Bill of Rights says that is exactly what it is for.

and are we still using cannon balls and muskets?

times change.

Better luck next time, indeed.

"greese" is misspelled on purpose, that is how nontheist spelled it. he claims to install the things for a living, but he can't spell them.

and "dark triad" is used as a verb. nontheist claims to have a "dark triad" personality, part of which entails lowering his standards to the availability of potential mates. undoubtedly, this has served him well when there was only a mule around, or perhaps a jar of peanut butter and a dog.

 

[Harrekin]

yep,

it's also pointing the gun in a safe direction except when engaging targets. By doing that you eliminate all accidents.

Safeties are a crutch, shoot yourself in the foot with a Colt SAA and you learn to keep that 6th chamber empty and the hammer down on it.

Safeties are for people who cannot learn this maxim.

Yeah, but I was talking more on-range, not strolling around for a chat.

 

[UncleBuck]

Or you're ignorant to reality.

Know when most regimes crumble? When troops refuse to follow orders. Troops aren't gonna be too likely to fire on Americans if they start to realize their government is on the wrong side of the equation.

If they meet armed resistance they will start to question why this is happening. If they don't, they will be significantly more likely to blindly follow orders as long as they continue to be paid and relatively well taken care of. Not unlike every other tyrannical regime in history.

Also, for their lack of weaponry, there was serious resistance and still is wherever the United States military has decided to aggressively occupy.

we just saw how a city could be militarized and a massive urban area swept door to door, house to house in a matter of hours, not days.

yet i am the one who needs a reality check?

please proceed.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

Worth noting that it's come out that Obama's new litmus test for his high ranking officers according to Jim Garrow who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 is whether or not they'd fire on American civilians (who said he was informed by a former military leader).

 

[UncleBuck]

Worth noting that it's come out that Obama's new litmus test for his high ranking officers according to Jim Garrow who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 is whether or not they'd fire on American civilians (who said he was informed by a former military leader).

obama hates me, this i know, an angry old conservative white male told me so...

 

[OGEvilgenius]

we just saw how a city could be militarized and a massive urban area swept door to door, house to house in a matter of hours, not days.

yet i am the one who needs a reality check?

please proceed.

History always shows that giving up your guns in a police state results in good things.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

obama hates me, this i know, an angry old conservative white male told me so...

You can ignore all the warning signs if you want to. It's not like your people haven't been through this.

My Jewish Great Grandaunt (not blood related) who lived through and met her husband during WW2 (who is still alive and very sharp) has called what is happening the United States extremely disturbing and directly comparable to what happened under Hitler. But, don't worry.

Obama is not a sock puppet AND he's a good dude looking out for you as evidenced by absolutely nothing at all.

 

[Kite High]

it was adam lanza who made sure to have a new high capacity mag between each classroom as he went about slaughtering kindergarteners and their teachers.

thanks you for correcting me.

Lanza did NOT kill a single kindergartner nor a single kindergarten teacher. No wonder you are so delusional. You can't get a single fact straight. Blame on weed if ya want. It is much simpler than that.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT

 

[Kite High]

we just saw how a city could be militarized and a massive urban area swept door to door, house to house in a matter of hours, not days.

yet i am the one who needs a reality check?

please proceed.

And never did find the suspect....a civilian did...great point...as it shows we need to retain our rights to ALL guns and not depend on your precious police that even when UNLAWFULLY searching for a suspect can't find it still....please continue

 

[UncleBuck]

History always shows that giving up your guns in a police state results in good things.

no one is talking about gun confiscation, take that wet dream of persecution elsewhere.

 

[UncleBuck]

You can ignore all the warning signs if you want to. It's not like your people haven't been through this.

My Jewish Great Grandaunt (not blood related) who lived through and met her husband during WW2 (who is still alive and very sharp) has called what is happening the United States extremely disturbing and directly comparable to what happened under Hitler. But, don't worry.

Obama is not a sock puppet AND he's a good dude looking out for you as evidenced by absolutely nothing at all.

well, if your grandaunt said so, it must be true despite all lack of reasonable comparison.

 

[UncleBuck]

Lanza did NOT kill a single kindergartner nor a single kindergarten teacher. No wonder you are so delusional. You can't get a single fact straight. Blame on weed if ya want. It is much simpler than that.

YOU'RE AN IDIOT

oh, so those 20 six year olds he slaughtered were in first grade?

that makes it so much better.

 

[UncleBuck]

And never did find the suspect....a civilian did...great point...as it shows we need to retain our rights to ALL guns and not depend on your precious police that even when UNLAWFULLY searching for a suspect can't find it still....please continue

there was nothing unlawful about their search.