Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Does that fall under first amendment rights or anything like that? What would be the biggest obstacle to getting legislation proposed making what she does illegal?
Legality of proposing legislation against psychic's like Sylvia Browne?
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
What legislation?
ricky1lung
Well-Known Member
I find that story to be really, really funny.
Sylvia Browne is a "psychic". A self professed person
who can "see" things. There is no concrete evidence proving
her claims are indeed factual and should be given any
validity at all.
If a person believes a psychic's claims as absolute fact, they are at fault.
It most certainly is not the person who found someone to pay for the
"vision" they apparently had.
Sylvia Browne is a "psychic". A self professed person
who can "see" things. There is no concrete evidence proving
her claims are indeed factual and should be given any
validity at all.
If a person believes a psychic's claims as absolute fact, they are at fault.
It most certainly is not the person who found someone to pay for the
"vision" they apparently had.
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
If they make psychic readings illegal, they should then move on to the plethora of herbal supplements that don't do anything for you as well. Seriously, let fools pay for they want.
ricky1lung
Well-Known Member
And wrestling because some people think it is real too....
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Hey Pad. Even if we could bring litigation against her, she'd probably just have to add a phrase to her marketing/shows such as, 'All material presented is for entertainment purposes only'. I've seen this kind of thing before with some astrology services, similar to specious nutrients bottles that have to say, 'these claims have not been evaluated by the FDA' and, "This product is not intended to cure, treat, or prevent any disease." These disclaimers seem to allow all these fraudulent things to exist legally, without effectively dissuading the folks prone to believing these things. Religious places of worship should have such a disclaimer, but we know that's not going to happen. It seems our legal system isn't meant to keep together fools and their money...
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Could she be sued for anything? She essentially took a womans money and didn't give her what she paid for because the information she gave her was incorrect, so how is that any different from me walking into a grocery store to buy a gallon of milk, paying for it, then having the cashier hand me a jar of mayonnaise instead?
Does anyone study/practice law on RIU?
Does anyone study/practice law on RIU?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily disagree, but people stricken with grief are never on their best defense. There is a reason she targets the desperate. Buyer beware does not excuse fraud.
However, education is the best answer. There is no perfect legislation that would preserve free speech and also limit fraud. The best way to protect people is not to take away freedom, it's to make them less gullible.
Rancho Cucamonga
Active Member
Sylvia Browne should be shot in the fucking head, same could be said about the suckers that believe in psychics.
As for legislation it would be tough because she doesn't call her scam a service or business. I imagine she uses words like "donations" and "contributions" so she is working some loophole to avoid lawsuits and probably taxes.
I agree with ricky, the people that believe her claims are mostly at fault.
As for legislation it would be tough because she doesn't call her scam a service or business. I imagine she uses words like "donations" and "contributions" so she is working some loophole to avoid lawsuits and probably taxes.
I agree with ricky, the people that believe her claims are mostly at fault.
Rancho Cucamonga
Active Member
We speak English here, but if Latin makes you feel superior more power to you.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be great if we could sue all those who give us false information? That would be a long list, indeed: churches, synagogues, mosques (and all of their clergy individually), psychics, mediums, fortune tellers, homeopathic doctors, alternative medical practitioners, all politicians, sales people... The list goes on and on...
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
We also don't act like dicks for no reason. If someone using a common latin phrase makes you feel inferior, that's all on you. I'm going to post how I feel like it and you are free to ignore my posts.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
All con men choose soft targets.
She absolutely should be treated like all other criminals. She should go to prison after paying restitution to everyone she ever took a dime from. She can be sued for fraud if the criminal justice system can't figure out how to charge her.
People need to be educated on all forms of confidence games. However, not everyone will listen. The people that pay these psychics when they should know better, when they have been warned, they deserve some blame.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Browne reminds me of Lilliman in V for Vendetta
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
No doubt what she is doing is fraud, and free speech does not extend to fraud. I have no problem with her being treated as a criminal. I was speaking of legislation which would cover all forms of fortune telling. It would be difficult to cover the spectrum from outright frauds to those who are self deluded into thinking they have genuine powers. It would be hard for me to agree with making palm readings illegal, for example. In a situation where someone is hired for a party to do palmistry and their clients are happy, Id rather see education used as a remedy than legislation. Still, if a clear demarcation could be described between scam and expression then I am okay with making laws, but I think it would have to come down to individual claims and cases. I don't think there is a perfect law that would effectively eliminate fraud and still preserve liberty. I think education is the best answer because it doesn't offer a conflict with liberties, however, I don't think it is the only thing worth trying, or that Sylvia shouldn't be sued.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What would you consider a 'clear demarcation of scam to expression'?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
That's what I am unsure about. If someone says "give me $1000 and i'll use my psychic powers to find your missing child", and they fail to do so, it's would seem to be easy to show damages. But if someone says "give me $1000 and i'll tell you the feelings and describe the visions my powers give me", then it gets harder to legislate, even though there is clearly still fraud involved. I don't know how to clearly distinguish without knowing the details of specific cases, so I doubt that we could make truly effective laws. I am certainly willing to listen to ideas.
generally dont chime into this shit
but ima go ahead, Personally there are a lot of people who take advantage of those in complete suffering, a lot of people would give up their 1000$, my aunt's husband was killed and some "physic" lady tool her she could connect with the dead blahb lah anywho the lady took off with over 25 grand of my aunts. granted its was a stupid decision by my aunt but her husband was just brutally killed after he served in the US military and she was left alone in america all alone with her 2 little children (we are canadian so no family to help her in her time of need right away) .
But than I see people like this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_and_Terry_Jamison and I get confused and believe there really might be people who can see/help predict or be physic
well thats just my little story sorry to get sidetracked
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Ahh the psychic twins. Their claim to fame is the 911 prediction, which was "We are seeing various terrorist attacks on federal government and also the New York Trade Center, the World Trade Center", which is a prediction pretty much anyone could make back in 1999.
http://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/2010-psychic-predictions-roundup-audience-and-professionals-on-coast-to-coast-am-majorly-fail/
The pair that I thought were most full of themselves were the “psychic twins,” Terry and Linda Jamison. They started the interview by claiming that everything they predicted for 2009 had come true, and when they were on later in 2010, they claimed that everything they had predicted in January would still come true.
On November 2, 1999, they claimed AIDS would be cured by 2002, “breast cancer drug break-through by 2003,” “a cancer cure, especially for breast cancer by 2007,” 60% of cancer cured by 2008, a cloning of body parts “in the not too distant future … in diagnostic chambers,” and people with cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, MS, and spinal cord injuries will be walking “within the decade.” Yeah …. didn’t quite happen. And by my tally, they only had one hit for 2010, and it was incredibly vague but I gave it to them. They had some monstrous fails, such as shiitake mushrooms as a prevention for breast cancer and hurricanes devastating Florida. They even failed on some actual statistically likely hits, like a major storm hitting the gulf.
http://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/2010-psychic-predictions-roundup-audience-and-professionals-on-coast-to-coast-am-majorly-fail/
The pair that I thought were most full of themselves were the “psychic twins,” Terry and Linda Jamison. They started the interview by claiming that everything they predicted for 2009 had come true, and when they were on later in 2010, they claimed that everything they had predicted in January would still come true.
On November 2, 1999, they claimed AIDS would be cured by 2002, “breast cancer drug break-through by 2003,” “a cancer cure, especially for breast cancer by 2007,” 60% of cancer cured by 2008, a cloning of body parts “in the not too distant future … in diagnostic chambers,” and people with cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, MS, and spinal cord injuries will be walking “within the decade.” Yeah …. didn’t quite happen. And by my tally, they only had one hit for 2010, and it was incredibly vague but I gave it to them. They had some monstrous fails, such as shiitake mushrooms as a prevention for breast cancer and hurricanes devastating Florida. They even failed on some actual statistically likely hits, like a major storm hitting the gulf.