1000w Coco Multi-strain Medicinal Grow

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EC (electrical conductivity) is the basic way of measuring the concentration of soluble nutrients in feed water. Absolutely pure water is not a particularly good conductor of electricity, and the more dissolved minerals contained in water, the better it conducts. Measurements like PPM, CF and TDS are based on the EC reading. EC is the measurement used for the plants that grow in the Museum.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Seedlings should start out with very low EC – 1.2 - 1.4[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Larger vegetating plants, rooted clones and mother plants can be given higher levels of feed – EC 1.4 -1.6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the first half of flowering, plants should start around EC 1.6 and be raised up to EC 1.7-1.8 by the middle of flowering.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]In the last weeks of flowering, Sativa hybrids will usually be fine with EC 1.8 -1.9; [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Indicas and Skunks can thrive with higher levels of nutrient – up to EC 2.0 - 2.2 (and generally need more nutrient in order to build their thicker buds). [/FONT]

Seems as though I have been running a little high on the nutes, thanks for the heads up Snow, I'll be cutting back slightly. Although there are no ill effects yet, I don't want to run into buildup problems in the end.

t0rn said:

Seems as though I have been running a little high on the nutes, thanks for the heads up Snow, I'll be cutting back slightly. Although there are no ill effects yet, I don't want to run into buildup problems in the end.

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hey t0rn - it's my first grow -but i have learned that when you fuck them up, they don't show the effects/shock right away.... it sometimes takes a few days or more to catch up to you.... so you're doing the right thing by backing down even though you don't see anything physically obvious yet. Good job man!

Yea, nute burn takes about a week to really show its head, the first signs being slight drooping (not associated with under or over-watering), and a leathery feel to the leaf. Just recently got a growing magazine (Urban Growing) that has an article showing over-ferting over a week. After doing some cloning and watching the plants eat themselves before rooting, I've got a good grasp on deficiencies as well. You can really see the Nitrogen and Iron colors and the Phosphorous purpling in the stems. Not showing any real signs of over ferting yet and I've been at ~1.7 EC.

Ladies about to turn on, be back in a bit.

Ok, using Snows excel spreadsheet I think I've come up with a battle plan.

Back of the bottle says to switch straight to Ripe in week 4, I'm going to use that week to use both Ripe and Bloom in order to keep a little nitrogen in the mix.

Week 4:
7ml Bloom, 8.5ml Ripe, 2ml Hydroplex - 771ppm/1.54ec

Week 5:
16ml Ripe, 2.25ml Hydroplex - 818ppm/1.63ec

Week 6:
16.5ml Ripe, 2.5ml Hydroplex - 845ppm/1.69ec

Week 7:
16ml Ripe, 3ml Hydroplex - 852ppm/1.7ec

Week 8:
Flush

It looks like I'm going to be watering 3 times a week as it's going now. I'll be feeding the full strength at the beginning of the week, half strength the second watering and a little pH'd water the 3rd to get to the beginning of the next week. I'll also be adding 1tbs molasses the second watering of the week.

These figures are based on going from 60-70% of the recommended dosage on the back of the bottle.

I think it is good to undershoot the level given the lack of a meter for you to measure it accurately. The actual levels are almost definitely going to be a bit higher. My Canna nutrients test around 15% higher then I predict. It would be wise to expect this compensating for maybe 10% to 20% higher than the spreadsheet predicts.

Seems like as long as you're between 1.0 and 1.8 you're within range. Heavier feeders like it around 2.0, while the lighter ones prefer the 1.0. Average is somewhere around 1.4 to 1.6 EC. Aiming for 1.2 to 1.6 on the spread sheet should keep you within a safe area and maybe provide a little insight into the levels you're using. There will always be a little extra in the bottle than on the label and you cannot forget to compensate for that some how. I think it'd be good to aim about 10% lower than you really want, just to be on the safe side.

The run off of my plants are all in excess of 2.0 and many of them are not taking it well. I have needed quite a bit of 0.8 EC solution through the worst plants (Sour Cream and a Bag Seed) run off to get the levels back under 1.8. I think that as long as there is 25% run off then you can run a solution up to a predicted 1.7 EC from weeks 2 to 5 of flowering without overfeeding most average plants. From the end of the high point I think it's good to just reduce the level in every feeding to a point where the EC should be around 1.0 to 0.8.

Having the calculator has also allowed me to dial in my nutrients much better, with a lot less crap. I'll be running:
Canna Coco A: 9ml
Canna Coco B: 9ml
Rhizotonic: 2ml
Liquid Karma: 5ml
KoolBloom: 3ml

These levels are a lot closer to what both Canna and Botanicare closely suggest. I think my mistake was passing on the Cannazym. At 0-2-1 it'd be great to have around on my shelf. Finally I get to ditch the Cal-Mag supplements. Too much "residual" in them that skew the NPK profile.

I could probably grow with just Cal-Mag Plus and SeaMag lol. A 2-0-0 with 3.0 Ca and 1.5 Mg and a 1-3-4 with 0 Ca and 1.5 Mg. It's like my very own A+B... lol... I hate myself for all the crap bottles I bought. I am glad I've figured out a way to use all the Canna A+B that I have so I can justify buying into the CNS 17 system.

Eventually I need to tune back the KoolBloom and the Canna A+B and run 10ml to 15ml of the AN Nirvana again to keep the K levels high enough during late flowering. Probably hover around 1.1EC in every feeding from weeks 6 to 8 with a good 30% run off to keep things balanced. I figure so long as I can measure my in and out levels and they are within reasonable ratios then I don't really need to scale back my feedings until the very end. Then I'll just water for the last week until I get run off below 0.5EC.

I hit day 21 on Monday and the trichomes are starting to form. I'll be keeping my levels around what you'd been doing and hoping for the best for us both!

Your idea seems pretty much in line with what Botanicare suggests and I like where the profile turns out. Keep an eye on your Calcium and Nitrogen levels, but I think it is a recipe for success for sure. Can't wait to see what your first plant harvests off of this.

Having so many different strains at different times in flowering... That's got to be a lot of work to manage. Props to you for all the gardening and picture time. I'd rep you if I could.

Snow Crash said:

I hit day 21 on Monday and the trichomes are starting to form. I'll be keeping my levels around what you'd been doing and hoping for the best for us both!

Your idea seems pretty much in line with what Botanicare suggests and I like where the profile turns out. Keep an eye on your Calcium and Nitrogen levels, but I think it is a recipe for success for sure. Can't wait to see what your first plant harvests off of this.

Having so many different strains at different times in flowering... That's got to be a lot of work to manage. Props to you for all the gardening and picture time. I'd rep you if I could.

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Thanks for the props man. It's actually pretty funny looking on the floor of the room. I'm using milk crates to keep the canopy somewhat level, although it is kind of a mess in there. The milk crates are cool because you get 3 different heights with them. Only 2 plants are actually on the ground, Poison and Panchota.

Here's a good tutorial on how to change your ip address to a remote proxy server, thought I would share since we're all a little paranoid:

[youtube]_mGUkddJM7k[/youtube]

Hopefully I will have a picture update tonight.

Had some Kali Mist, NYC Sour Diesel, OG kush, and Mars OG tonight, all some pretty fire stuff. The taste from the NYC Sour Diesel sticks out the most though.

All in all a good night, didn't end up going to the titty bar with some friends, oh well.

Picture update after this post, wanted it to be on the top of the page.

Ok, picture update, not doing height numbers until the end anymore. The only thing stretching a little bit at the moment is the seed plant that was un-topped (Panchota).

Panchota:


Poison:


The Hog:


Romulan:


Kryptonite:

nice update t0rn.... i love the purple on the panchota - everything looks great. Are these 8, 9 or 10 week flowering strains traditionally...??

that panchotta is sick bro...I take it must have came from something you got purple..too bad you don't know exactly but just thing it came from seed...good on you. I'd rep you but not this soon I don't think. I have good news over at my thread that I'll be posting in about an hour or so.

Snow Crash said:

Okay, I saved the spreadsheet as an .xls (to work in excel hopefully).
Uploaded it to Rapidshare, just click on the free download button.

http://rapidshare.com/files/442223750/TDS_calc_by_snowcrash.xls

To use the spreadsheet there are a few things you'll need to input.
Start with an estimation of your tap water starting point. This helps the formula's calculate your water hardness value and applies it to the Ca ppm level. Other tap water contaminants, from bromine to chloride, are taken into account but their ~ppm levels are not displayed.

Once you enter the starting ppm level you can then change the name from "Nutrient A" to whatever nutrient you are using.
Under the "label" column insert the element levels listed on the bottle. You only need to fill in the P2O4 and K2O boxes. The Phosphorus and Potassium boxes will fill themselves in.
Phosphorus and Potassium levels represent the elemental concentration in ppm of those elements, and not their oxide compounds which are listed on the bottle.
Some bottles will list Molybdenum at 0.0005%, which even at 20ml per gallon doesn't add up to a single ppm, and I've decided to omit that element from my analysis, as well as a few other trace elements not usually provided in any high amount.
Change the ml/gallon level to represent what you are adding. You cannot put a Zero as your used level (working that out) so for the time being just use "0.00001" in place of a Zero.

If you flip to sheet 2 you'll see some (older) tables that I have filled in with my own levels.

I recommend you copy the table from the first sheet, and paste it to the second or third sheet, and work on it there. Preserving the "master table" for you to make changes to later on.

Pretty unreal how accurate it is for several items all mixed together.
I forgot to add back in the ppm total for the finished mix, you'll need to do that. It's pretty easy.

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Hey Crash..this works great.if you don't mind I'd like to shoot it to my buddy so he can fine tune his calc..like I said I know why his isn't working I belive..just hard to get ahold of him he's active duty and has a wife..hardly any time to program.

Two quick questions on yours though...when you say "add back in the ppm how and where should I be adding it too..also anyway you can fit in some formula for muric acid?

Kiki007 said:

nice update t0rn.... i love the purple on the panchota - everything looks great. Are these 8, 9 or 10 week flowering strains traditionally...??

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Panchota was a seed I found in some Root Beer Kush. The shit was fire and DID taste a bit like root beer. For the life of me I can't find any information on Root Beer Kush, and the seed I popped must be a different pheno than the one we smoked because it smells nothing like root beer. The smell is more like an astringent than anything, pretty intimidating. It smells like rubbing alcohol/rocket fuel/acrid flowers, and the buds are MUCH darker than the bud we got the seed from.

To answer your question about the flowering times, they should all be roughly 8 week strains. Romulan and Kryptonite are listed as 7-8 week strains and do look slightly ahead of the others. Poison and Panchota look like they're going to be true 8 week strains and The Hog seems slightly behind the others. T.H. Seeds lists their The Hog at 55-60 (late 7th - mid 8th week) days flowering here: http://www.thseeds.com/pages/hog.html

420Marine said:

Hey Crash..this works great.if you don't mind I'd like to shoot it to my buddy so he can fine tune his calc..like I said I know why his isn't working I belive..just hard to get ahold of him he's active duty and has a wife..hardly any time to program.

Two quick questions on yours though...when you say "add back in the ppm how and where should I be adding it too..also anyway you can fit in some formula for muric acid?

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Go ahead.

I have no idea what muric acid is but I can probably figure it out. I'll give it a go.

This spread sheet is just the beginning of things to come. I have another thread going where we are going to test our nutrients in a water and get a baseline of where they come in. That way I can create a full blown calculator for each nutrient system. It doesn't do much other than provide a little insight into what you're adding. I think where it really comes into play is for people without a meter who'd like to understand what EC to run.

t0rn is doing such a beautiful job with his girls I'd hate to change anything in the garden. Even after 3 coco grows I'm still aching for what he's pulling off. Those drain pans make a world of difference.

You know, the sad thing is that after this grow I'm probably going back to organics after all this. I considered building an NFT or Aero system but I'm just too fucking lazy. Mixing nutrients, feeding, and managing the run off is costing me hours of time every week. Mix up some coco with some worm castings, composted stuff, little micro-mix, and of course perlite... Then just water when required. But the key is a good mix... so that's a whole new science to whip up.

Hmmm defantiely somethign to digest..I was thinking of going coco in a future grow (maybe after a year or so once I get where/what I want/need out of soil) I"m not entirely sure what Muric acid is either other than it's listed as the only thing in "ancient amber" in the Aura Roots Organics line.

Got some White Widow seeds from a friend the other day, 5 to be exact. They're from Nirvana and he had a friend that grew a male in his room (for seeds I'm guessing). I didn't see the phenotype the male or the female that was used and hopefully these beans will sprout out some decent buds. I have 2 germing right now in some bottled water on top of the cable box for warmth.

Snow Crash said:

You know, the sad thing is that after this grow I'm probably going back to organics after all this. I considered building an NFT or Aero system but I'm just too fucking lazy. Mixing nutrients, feeding, and managing the run off is costing me hours of time every week. Mix up some coco with some worm castings, composted stuff, little micro-mix, and of course perlite... Then just water when required. But the key is a good mix... so that's a whole new science to whip up.

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I've been tossing an idea around my head similar to what you're thinking. I was just going to put a top layer of organics on the pots and water it through. Worm castings for veg and some sea bird shit for flower (have no idea what I'm talking about really). Basically whatever bloom or veg specific animal shit at the right times. I thought it would help out the rhizosphere and give the bennies something to munch on as they don't really like the synthetic nutes. Using molasses now for the same reason, just to feed the bennies, although the micro nutrients in molasses are kinda nice too.

Stumbled onto someone else using CalCarb yesterday and remembered that it's about time that I re-apply it to the ladies. It's been about 3 weeks now since battling the borg (they lost miserably to Floramite), and the Safer Soap/Floramite smell is gone. Re-appyling the CalCarb was a double edged sword and I made a slight mistake using it, oh well it's my first grow. Now don't get me wrong, everything out there is looking tip top. When I turned the light on this morning there was the expected residue on the leaves from the spray and the plants were all looking GREAT. They are all doing the Y from YMCA, leaves pointing to the sky. One bad thing though (my mistake) is that the pistils took it pretty bad. They're not fried and shriveled up so to speak but they did frazzle a little bit. Oh well, live and learn, I won't be using that product 3-4 weeks into flower.

It's a little past the half way point for the ladies now (day 31) and they're just chugging right along. The buds are starting to connect and the tops look like almost one solid nug now.

live and learn my friend update tomorrow..I"m suffering from the horrible Jets win over the Pats tonight..but the girls are doing good and I've taken clones...pics, height, and all around update tomorrow..stay tuned..