advanced nutrients vs. fox farm

Okay, so here are some pics of my plants 3 weeks into flowering on the Advanced Nutrients line. Vegged for a month and a week. Maybe I am a noob, but I've done a lot of research online and have had good results. I do appreciate Uncle Ben's advice immensely and hope to be able to mix up my own ferts for cheap someday, but AN is a little more than snake oil. Sure, their advertisements and product names are a little corny, but hey, when you find out the proper ratios, they do work alright.
 

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laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Okay, so here are some pics of my plants 3 weeks into flowering on the Advanced Nutrients line. Vegged for a month and a week. Maybe I am a noob, but I've done a lot of research online and have had good results. I do appreciate Uncle Ben's advice immensely and hope to be able to mix up my own ferts for cheap someday, but AN is a little more than snake oil. Sure, their advertisements and product names are a little corny, but hey, when you find out the proper ratios, they do work alright.
They work better than alright, that's why the only nay sayers are the people that admittedly haven't used the product. They will claim they don't need it, or it's garbage, but the fact is there are very fewer AN detractors that were once customers, but have since switched to mixing their own vats of various bird and vermon shit.
 

Mark5:9

New Member
It's really telling and funny that the people that are the most against AN and FF have never used them "and never will".

Well, please next time you come across a thread that asked about any food you don't use and never will, just pass it up. Move on to something you do know about.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Showing pictures from 1995 doesn't really impress me either.
I'll save my 2010 pix jest fer you. ;)

I see you having the same sort of problems that Roseman did with people not accepting your style. I just hope you don't leave the way Roseman did because of all the harshness you get.
I try to stick to the facts. People make this an emotional issue which I have explained. It's human nature.

My advice to other newbies like me, read all you can now and appreciate the advice he's giving out, face it, the price for the info is right! You never know how long it will last. You don't have to agree with him, but you do need to pay attention, increase your overall education. The more you learn the more you can help yourself when you run into trouble.
I have dissected the cannabis industry every which but Sunday, and having seen it develop for the last 15 years, I've come to the conclusion that it's all about the money. Target group? - Those without little to no gardening experience and lacking in knowledge about what makes a plant tick.


I'll guarantee you one thing, the experienced, educated growers we have here will only put up with shit for so long, I know I wouldn't take it for long. The assholes will be here forever, there's one guy still bitching at Roseman and throwing around all sorts of accusations 2 weeks after he left! Appreciate what you've got while it's here. Uncle Ben, you are a great resource, thanks for your time. I'm paying close attention.
Roseman is indeed a master gardener, always willing to help. The fact that he and I try to set the noobs straight speaks for itself.

UB would u mind telling all of us what products u DO use/approve of ?
Done it a million times. ANY non-cannabis specific company that is used by the atypcal nurseryman, horticulturist, greenhouse manager, etc. You're looking for answer in all the wrong places mah man.

so far i have gathered the following products but what else do u use? and do you follow directions on the label?

Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro
Blossom Booster
wal mart 4.95 plant food.
spin out
Don't follow the labels religiously. There is no black and white when it comes to gardening. I also use Plant Products, Stern's products and others I can't think of now, they are on a bench in my shop. Look at orchid supply houses. There you will find high quality foods at a fair price. Here's one great source: http://www.tropicalplantproducts.com/

And for the record, such firms were selling, and I was using, coir aka coco while most of you guys were still messin' in your drawers. :mrgreen: Want a great medium? Try osmunda fiber, much better than coco fiber.

I see the same type of discussions in the gym all the time. Guys think they need to load up on protein despite the fact that the Average American consumes several times the protein that the body can use. The same goes with most other vitamins and all the other snake oil you see in the health food stores.
Yep, as a former weight lifting addict, I have seen the hype in that industry too. It's all about the money. Aint nothing better than a couple of eggs and sausage for protein for breakfast or a steak and potato for dinner. Yummy!

Plants need the macro-nutrients N-P-K in quality form. They also need a number of micro-nutrients. This really isn't that complicated and I would think many fertilizers with good reputations and proven track records would know how to accomplish this.
Absolutely. Do you see any vitamins and other crap in any of these foods? Of course not. This is the food I mainly use now based on availability, price, quality, free delivery..... http://msds.plantprod.com/product/search?query=Fertilizer

Wanna GREAT encapsulate food? http://msds.plantprod.com/document/853

As far as I know, there are no plant steroids or miracle foods. It is a simple matter of the right stuff in the right proportions. Just like good Human nutrition is a simple matter of eating the right foods.
You got it.

Hey Uncle Ben

LOVE your advice, and have read all your threads

I learned from you to read gardening forums and that's where I got my soil mix

I learned from you about Jacks Classic (the only nutes I'm using) $4.99 for an 8oz tub

The plant in the photo is 3 weeks into flowering and has had only one feeding with Jacks Bloom

Thank you Uncle Ben for spreading "the TRUTH" in the face of adversity
You're welcome. Plants are lookin' good!

They work better than alright, that's why the only nay sayers are the people that admittedly haven't used the product. They will claim they don't need it, or it's garbage, but the fact is there are very fewer AN detractors that were once customers, but have since switched to mixing their own vats of various bird and vermon shit.
Don't forget to add a little Eye of Newt extract.

BonusAgricola, it's you guys that are doing the mixing with parts A-Z, base and supplements....... I just scoop out a tsp. of fertilizer, dump into a gallon jug, fill with water and be done with it.

UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
It's really telling and funny that the people that are the most against AN and FF have never used them "and never will".
It's telling and funny that you have never shown one of your plants or a garden, "and never will". Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'll be most happy to pass judgment regarding real world evidence.

UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Okay, so here are some pics of my plants 3 weeks into flowering on the Advanced Nutrients line. Vegged for a month and a week. Maybe I am a noob, but I've done a lot of research online and have had good results. I do appreciate Uncle Ben's advice immensely and hope to be able to mix up my own ferts for cheap someday, but AN is a little more than snake oil. Sure, their advertisements and product names are a little corny, but hey, when you find out the proper ratios, they do work alright.
It's not really an issue of "they work". It's more an issue of truth in advertising. For example, plants don't need chlorophyll or carotene blah blah blah...... they don't uptake it thru their roots, they manufacture it on their own, just like they do proteins, enyzmes, vitamins, etc. To think you'll get any benefit from a root application of such stuff is baloney. It is another marketing ploy aimed at your internalized dreams, a misrepresentation of plant requirements (essential versus beneficial) to sell snake oil. Having said that.....gonna make a few comments. They are not a put-down, perhaps they will help. Plants look very nice, but.......

This plant is suffering from some kind of moisture stress and doesn't look like it has been given enough N, as the foliage is not thick and lush. That could be due to many factors (i.e. genetics), but it would be interesting to know what NPK values they have been receiving.



UB
 

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Interesting logic in this thread.

Just because AN produces good results doesn't prove other cheaper mixes will not produce equal or better results. And you can't argue that a guy doesn't know because he hasn't used AN. I could also say you have never used Jack's Classic so you don't know. The fact is, one would need to do a side by side trial to know which performs better.

If you look at it scientifically, any mix that provides quality macro and micro nutrients in quality form is going to do great. Cannabis is just a plant like any other - in fact, it has nutrient requirements similar to tomatoes. There are no tricks or mystic secrets to growing this species of plant. It stands to reason that companies that make products used by professional nurserymen make a quality product. They have been around a long time, have well established reputations and proven track records. Plus, they have a lot more R&D behind them and a larger customer base by light years.

Companies making Cannabis specific products on the other hand are not nearly as well established and given the nature of the business are much more likely to try to sell an over priced (though perhaps quality product) to inexperienced growers who don't know any better.

This kind of thing happens all the time. Companies take a basic product that has been around for years, repackage it as being purpose specific and sell it at five times the price. AN or FF may or may not be quality products, but after all the smoke clears it is unlikely they are anything more than any other well balanced nutrients such as those offered by Dyna-Grow.
 

Mark5:9

New Member
Interesting logic in this thread.

Just because AN produces good results doesn't prove other cheaper mixes will not produce equal or better results. And you can't argue that a guy doesn't know because he hasn't used AN. I could also say you have never used Jack's Classic so you don't know. The fact is, one would need to do a side by side trial to know which performs better.

If you look at it scientifically, any mix that provides quality macro and micro nutrients in quality form is going to do great. Cannabis is just a plant like any other - in fact, it has nutrient requirements similar to tomatoes. There are no tricks or mystic secrets to growing this species of plant. It stands to reason that companies that make products used by professional nurserymen make a quality product. They have been around a long time, have well established reputations and proven track records. Plus, they have a lot more R&D behind them and a larger customer base by light years.

Companies making Cannabis specific products on the other hand are not nearly as well established and given the nature of the business are much more likely to try to sell an over priced (though perhaps quality product) to inexperienced growers who don't know any better.

This kind of thing happens all the time. Companies take a basic product that has been around for years, repackage it as being purpose specific and sell it at five times the price. AN or FF may or may not be quality products, but after all the smoke clears it is unlikely they are anything more than any other well balanced nutrients such as those offered by Dyna-Grow.
Logically speaking the title of the thread is AN vs FF.. Nothing to do with Jacks.. So that is all off topic.
 

Mark5:9

New Member
Cannabis is just a plant like any other - in fact, it has nutrient requirements similar to tomatoes.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Name another flower that is dried and smoked..

When was the last time you smoked a tomato?

Maybe in Veg and if you were a total noob someone might set you up with a general tomato food. It will work but using a flower food and things like bud candy will make a large differnace 90% of the time.
 

doogleef

Well-Known Member
I love it when obviously new growers get upset and start attacking when presented with simple science that destroys all the hype around canna-nutes or any other well-guarded forum paradigm. The plant produces all the vitamins and acids it needs naturally and wont take up most of that crap via the roots anyway. Special sauce additives and boosters are crap. Anything that takes a macro way out of whack (like a PK booster) causes N deff pretty damn fast. Putting all that crap in your reservoir is a waste of time and $$. Find a good complete basic nute and move on. In hydro i recommend using an immediately available chem based fert rather than trying to play the beneficial bacteria war game of organic hydro but that's just MNSFHO. Yield is about environment, genetics and proper basic nutrition. Not designer nutrients or additives.

I've used AN, GH, FF, PBP .... all to the same basic effect. Between the 2, FF or AN, I would go with the AN but do yourself a favor and stay away from all the magic sauce additives. The AN sensi 2-part is, by itself, a good in-organic nute with higher N value than you will find in most other canna-nutes.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
ok ben, i will get any non cannabis plant food (which is only AN as far as i know) at OSH down the street and i will test it against my formula of proven "snake oils" and we will see what happens.

ive used peters and the likes in the past so i already know what will happen, but i will do a side by side test just to make sure, and so i can see, smoke, smell, taste and weigh both of the end products.

i will make sure to buy one of the plant foods you have listed for the test.
 

jberry

Well-Known Member
i usually use 12 test plants against the rest of the crop when i try a new product or method... i will probably do the same for this.
 

roll420

Well-Known Member
This is a great thread!! I use An currently and am happy with the results......i really dont care how much the nutes cost cause i dont need a whole lot.....i gro hydro.... 5 ten gallon rubermaids.....im sure if your an expert OG grower you can get the same results with regular fertilizer or whatever..... Unfortunatly i am deff not and was just looking for the best nutes for a decent price....So i read alot about AN and decieded to go with it.....AN probably is alot about advertising and marketing but........What is not advertised and marketed out the ass!!!! If i could do with out it and still get the same results....That would be great, but dont see it happining right now.

Theres no question about it....if you check out the Urbangrower on youtube.....AN is deff producing some healthy monster buds....i know theres alot of other factors besides nutes that get big buds. I do not doubt that UB could have the same results with what he uses.....

The problem is i have no idea where to start, for using regular nutes for hydro... I would like to do a side by side compare of AN and regs.....What does everyone else use for hydro nutes??
 

Michiganman247

Active Member
I just joined recently as I am going to be starting my first grow soon. I am using soil and was going to go with FF and was hoping this thread would help...

All I found out is that UB sound like a scientist (which I am most definitely NOT) and though his posts seem legit I just dont have the time to make my own stuff and I cant grow outside (ITS FUCKING 20 degrees out...COLD!!!). I should be receiving most of my equipment next week. Any help would be great. I am not expecting a huge yield (my first grow and everything) but if having the right soil could improve it, it would be awesome.

Thanks...

-MM
 

bigsourD

Well-Known Member
I just joined recently as I am going to be starting my first grow soon. I am using soil and was going to go with FF and was hoping this thread would help...

All I found out is that UB sound like a scientist (which I am most definitely NOT) and though his posts seem legit I just dont have the time to make my own stuff and I cant grow outside (ITS FUCKING 20 degrees out...COLD!!!). I should be receiving most of my equipment next week. Any help would be great. I am not expecting a huge yield (my first grow and everything) but if having the right soil could improve it, it would be awesome.

Thanks...

-MM
although ub is very intelligent when it comes to this kind of stuff you will by no means be disappointed with ff nutes. Just try your best man and you will be happy with the results. Noone said ff nutes are bad...
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Name another flower that is dried and smoked..

When was the last time you smoked a tomato?
What in the hell does that lame attempt to distort the issue mean, what does it have to do with plant nutrition, misrepresentation of product, etc? Since you seem to be resorting to attacking the messenger and resorting to incoherent associations, may I remind that cannabis and tomatoes are both flowering plants and more importantly, have the same nutritional needs. See that Tomato Food thar on the Walmart shelf? Yep....works fine.

Maybe in Veg and if you were a total noob someone might set you up with a general tomato food. It will work but using a flower food and things like bud candy will make a large differnace 90% of the time.
Really? Still haven't seen anything from you but personal attacks and name calling. Show "US" your plants. :)

Nothing like a noob, a non grower, who is enamored with perceptions (names/labels) rather than what makes a plant tick. "Bud Candy", a lame 0-0-1 will work against a grower, it will induce plant decline as it is nutritionally deficient. Boosters, supplements, are a fast and easy way to increase profits. This should be quite obvious to a clear thinking individual.

Bud Candy is nothing more than a $30 bottle of water. Do you understand what NPK values mean, plant nutrition? Obviously not. I'll be most happy to explain them to you. In layman's terms, 1% of nothing, is, nothing. Out of 100 pounds of salts, you'll get a lame 1 pound of active ingredient. If you were to use another product, say a 10-30-20, then you'd get 20 times the amount of K out of product B than A. Gawd this is funny! :bigjoint:

I love it when obviously new growers get upset and start attacking when presented with simple science that destroys all the hype around canna-nutes or any other well-guarded forum paradigm.
Well put. Notice how quickly the spin comes and goes regarding the attempt to censor thread content, in the name of "hijacking", "off topic" and other crap. Next they'll be calling me a racist, as if I give a shit hehe. Regarding Peters, Blue is beautiful!

The plant produces all the vitamins and acids it needs naturally and wont take up most of that crap via the roots anyway. Special sauce additives and boosters are crap. Anything that takes a macro way out of whack (like a PK booster) causes N deff pretty damn fast. Putting all that crap in your reservoir is a waste of time and $$. Find a good complete basic nute and move on. In hydro i recommend using an immediately available chem based fert rather than trying to play the beneficial bacteria war game of organic hydro but that's just MNSFHO. Yield is about environment, genetics and proper basic nutrition. Not designer nutrients or additives.
Excellent advice, but it's like throwing pearls before swine. This is not an issue about what's better botanically, it's an idealogical issue. Just because AN and FF cater to the cannabis grower, they must be legit, right? They are using psychological marketing gimmicks as a tool for increased sales as does the Cannabis Cup winner who slipped a thou into the hands of the cup judges. Cannabis vendors, whether it be seeds or fertilizers, realize that this industry is all about perceptions of what's perceived as good. Give a "new" mutt a cute name, show some shugar, and it will sell. It's all about the cover and not the book.

I've used AN, GH, FF, PBP .... all to the same basic effect. Between the 2, FF or AN, I would go with the AN but do yourself a favor and stay away from all the magic sauce additives. The AN sensi 2-part is, by itself, a good in-organic nute with higher N value than you will find in most other canna-nutes.
The "sauce additives" is only good for a laugh. Anyone that thinks 1% K in some Bud Blood or whatever that snake oil was needs to give me their bank account so I can save them some grief, hah! I'll put their money to good use. ;)

Give the kids all the cotton candy they want. Wouldn't want to deprive them of precious County Fair memories hehe. http://www.planetnatural.com/planetnatural/images/bud-candy-label.pdf

I just joined recently as I am going to be starting my first grow soon. I am using soil and was going to go with FF and was hoping this thread would help...
Buy Mel Franks MJ Insiders Growers Guide. That is your short cut to success, not RIU threads.

All I found out is that UB sound like a scientist (which I am most definitely NOT) and though his posts seem legit I just dont have the time to make my own stuff
I don't make my own stuff, never did.

Good luck,
UB
 
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