Almost 1/3 of all homicides in my county 2010-16 were police killings

ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
You are incapable of processing unorthodox or general opposing opinions. That is evident by the way you lift things out of context and default ad hominem comments at every cross road. You seem to be giving a lot of attention to a person you obviously deem an idiot. I don't want to put you on ignore but you offer little else.
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Or maybe you're just wrong and ignorant on many subjects and dislike being called out on it.

Deal with it; try to develop some understanding of a subject before telling others a bunch of unsupportable bullshit.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Or maybe you're just wrong and ignorant on many subjects and dislike being called out on it.

Deal with it; try to develop some understanding of a subject before telling others a bunch of unsupportable bullshit.
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I have no problem what so ever being wrong on something, engage me properly and see. My opinion on the UK currently being in the best position to help Africa on a lasting economical and ethical level may well be wrong.. that's why it's an opinion, but it is not unsupported. You want to disagree with that, go ahead, stand up to your own words and give me a supported reason why it holds no water. Uk can't help Africa because of past wrong doings?, Ironically this shows you to be the ignorant one, doubly ironic because it supports my opinion more than it discredits it (moral obligation). If Poland fell into crisis is Germany not allowed to help because they once occupied it, even though Germany are currently a very good candidate to do so. America are able but due to past crimes are not eligible to help the Vietnamese?. You call my logic twisted, you projected that.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
Hah, funny enough I feel sorry for the avg well balanced white man in modern times, who are ofc innocent from past traditions. The amount of politically correct angles (some absurd ones) he is under attack from is mind blowing. But then add in the delusional extremism that is within said groups.. it's a horrible position to be in. I could Imagine being a white American cop is a very difficult job.

As ttys kindly demonstrates above, the ability for people to remember the past but forgive and move on is difficult.
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Yeah, I mean how many darkies do we have to kill to improve their condition? White man's work is exhausting. Why can't they just do what we say? It's in their own interests to give us all their resources for nothing. After all we've done for them they owe it to us.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I have no problem what so ever being wrong on something, engage me properly and see. My opinion on the UK currently being in the best position to help Africa on a lasting economical and ethical level may well be wrong.. that's why it's an opinion, but it is not unsupported. You want to disagree with that, go ahead, stand up to your own words and give me a supported reason why it holds no water. Uk can't help Africa because of past wrong doings?, Ironically this shows you to be the ignorant one, doubly ironic because it supports my opinion more than it discredits it (moral obligation). If Poland fell into crisis is Germany not allowed to help because they once occupied it, even though Germany are currently a very good candidate to do so. America are able but due to past crimes are not eligible to help the Vietnamese?. You call my logic twisted, you projected that.
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Well, you're wrong.

Sooooooo wrong...
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
greg nr said:
Then why is there such a brutal war on education?
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Because calling something education when it is forcibly prescribed to people and forcibly funded is a misnomer. It is dishonest to euphemize something to the point that discussion of the means used to achieve that something becomes moot or ignored or denied.

Education and indoctrination are two different things, the means used to achieve them is the variable which makes that so.
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Because calling something education when it is forcibly prescribed to people and forcibly funded is a misnomer. It is dishonest to euphemize something to the point that discussion of the means used to achieve that something becomes moot or ignored or denied.

Education and indoctrination are two different things, the means used to achieve them is the variable which makes that so.
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Come on, dude. You can't say just because some sort of knowledge is forced on you doesn't make you more aware.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
Come on, dude. You can't say just because some sort of knowledge is forced on you doesn't make you more aware.
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I see what you are saying. I agree that something true, as in a math curriculum, remains true whether you gravitate towards it willingly or it is forced upon you. However that does not address my point or somehow make a forcible means not a forcible means does it ?
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I see what you are saying. I agree that something true, as in a math curriculum, remains true whether you gravitate towards it willingly or it is forced upon you. However that does not address my point or somehow make a forcible means not a forcible means does it ?
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No, I guess not. But, me telling you that you should understand you need to learn 2+2 = 4 isn't force, is it? Isn't that just helping you realize what is reality? Surely can't be misconstrued as force can it?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
No, I guess not. But, me telling you that you should understand you need to learn 2+2 = 4 isn't force, is it? Isn't that just helping you realize what is reality. Surely can't be misconstrued as force can it?
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It isn't force to attempt to persuade a person who agrees to discussion. It is force to compel a person to pay for your good idea, if they don't agree. There is a HUGE difference between the two means used.

I repeat, the means used is what makes the difference, can you deny or refute that ?
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
It isn't force to attempt to persuade a person who agrees to discussion. It is force to compel a person to pay for your good idea, if they don't agree. There is a HUGE difference between the two means used.

I repeat, the means used is what makes the difference, can you deny or refute that ?
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Well, I'm confused. Would teaching a child basic math skills be a forceful action? They can't really say NO, you say 2+2 = 4 BUT I DON'T! Because no matter what anyone says, mathematical and scientific facts are true. Correct?

Wouldn't arguing that just be a basic denial of mathematical and scientific fact?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
Well, I'm confused. Would teaching a child basic math skills be a forceful action? They can't really say NO, you say 2+2 = 4 BUT I DON'T! Because no matter what anyone says, mathematical and scientific facts are true. Correct?

Wouldn't arguing that just be a basic denial of mathematical and scientific fact?
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Yes, I agree, you seem confused. Teaching a person math isn't the issue.

Using threats of offensive force to make a disinterested person an unwilling participant in funding your idea is the issue.

I could use math to prove my point, but your confusion may prevent you from accepting what I might point out.
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Yes, I agree, you seem confused. Teaching a person math isn't the issue.

Using threats of offensive force to make a disinterested person an unwilling participant in funding your idea is the issue.

I could use math to prove my point, but your confusion may prevent you from accepting what I might point out.
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Tricky, tricky. Even though "funding" was never an issue in our discussion until you brought it up, I can see how profitable the force argument would be in court. But, I think outside of that element it fails to appreciate reality. If that makes any sense...
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
Tricky, tricky. Even though "funding" was never an issue in our discussion until you brought it up, I can see how profitable the force argument would be in court. But, I think outside of that element it fails to appreciate reality. If that makes any sense...
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The means can't be separated from the end. To do so ignores reality.

So do you think persuasion is a better method than extortion ?
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
The means can't be separated from the end. To do so ignores reality.

So do you think persuasion is a better method than extortion ?
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No dude, maybe we are arguing separate issues here? Me telling you that 2+2=4 is not persuasion or extortion. That is me relating reality. How does passing along basic facts equal persuasion or extortion?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
No dude, maybe we are arguing separate issues here? Me telling you that 2+2=4 is not persuasion or extortion. That is me relating reality. How does passing along basic facts equal persuasion or extortion?
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Oh okay, let's do a little math.

I assume we agree that nobody has a right to delegate a right they do not possess? In that case that non right would equate to zero right.

So if you or I have zero right to forcibly compel others to fund our ideas, it would be impossible to aggregate our zero rights into a positive sum. Therefore reality would insist that a mandatory "education" funded by unwilling participants has zero right to exist.

I doubt you will be able to refute and possibly even understand what I just said, but it remains true nevertheless.
 
_gresh_

_gresh_

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
Oh okay, let's do a little math.

I assume we agree that nobody has a right to delegate a right they do not possess? In that case that non right would equate to zero right.

So if you or I have zero right to forcibly compel others to fund our ideas, it would be impossible to aggregate our zero rights into a positive sum. Therefore reality would insist that a mandatory "education" funded by unwilling participants has zero right to exist.

I doubt you will be able to refute and possibly even understand what I just said, but it remains true nevertheless.
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No no no, you do not get to delegate facts. Mathematical facts, or scientific facts are still truth. Me affirming those facts does not mean I am forcing you to believe in them. Those are scientific facts whether you "participate" with them or not.

It's the truth. 2+2=4. Period. Funding is not part of this argument.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
_gresh_ said:
No no no, you do not get to delegate facts. Mathematical facts, or scientific facts are still truth. Me affirming those facts does not mean I am forcing you to believe in them. Those are scientific facts whether you "participate" with them or not.

It's the truth. 2+2=4. Period. Funding is not part of this argument.
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Reported for excessive cognitive dissonance.
 
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