angryblackman
Well-Known Member
From Cali here and I LOVED the D.I.E. (Dry Ice Extraction). 
Hope that you guys have as much fun with it as I did.
Hope that you guys have as much fun with it as I did. 
Always, ALWAYS save your trim!
- Thread starter MacGuyver4.2.0
- Start date
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
Awesome!
It's def the method I will continue to use with many benefits for sure. I might have to hook up with you sometime to get some 'educatin' on tinctures. I'm also trying to learn about salves and ointments, some have told me they work great for knee joint pain. Your freezer thanks you, as well! 
Medshed
Well-Known Member
Here you go MacGuyver. This is the recipe I use for the first time I'm trying a new strain to help get the dosage down. For strains I am familiar with, I usually make a bigger batch and use a 4 ounce canning jar. In general 3 grams of hash per 1 ounce of liquid makes a pretty good tincture.
Hash Tincture - recipe for 1 oz of finished tincture
Ingredients:
3 grams of hash (I use a mix of the various grades I get from the Bubble bags)
25% Everclear or vodka
75% Vegetable Glycerine
Put the hash and alcohol in a 1 oz bottle. Shake daily (or 2-3 times per day) for 3 days, or until the hash is fully dissolved in the alcohol.
Pour in the glycerine to fill the bottle almost to the top. In the next step you will reduce the liquid a bit so don't worry if it looks too full.
Put the bottle in a water bath, with the lid off the bottle, and heat to about 180 degrees for a few hours. I use a small crock pot that seems to be designed for potpourri. It tops out at 170 degrees. Shake the bottle (with the lid on) a couple of times while it is heating. I use a towel to hold the bottle so it doesn't burn my hands. Turn off the heat and let the bottle cool to room temperature.
Repeat this process 3 - 4 times or until the mixture has taken on a thicker liquid consistency and you get a glob of gelatin-looking resin floating on top. I also go by smell at this stage. You should have evaporated off much of the alcohol, so the smell should be closer to the smell of hash than the smell of alcohol.
When the step above is complete, heat one more time to warm up the tincture. In this step you will be filtering the goo out of the tincture and that goes better when it is warm. For small batches (as described in this message) I've found a small paper coffee filter to be the best filter. When doing larger batches (3 + ounces of tincture) I use one of those gold-plated "eternal" coffee filters. If using the paper filter, you need to squeeze it to be sure all the tincture has been removed. For the bigger filter, it is easier to use a spoon and rub the goo/tincture around the filter until you are left with just goo inside the filter.
Now you're done. The dose on this tincture is somewhere between 2 and 6 drops, depending on your body size and what effect you are going for. I always start on the low end of the spectrum, wait 30 minutes and add a drop or two each 30 minutes until I figure out the right dose.
Hash Tincture - recipe for 1 oz of finished tincture
Ingredients:
3 grams of hash (I use a mix of the various grades I get from the Bubble bags)
25% Everclear or vodka
75% Vegetable Glycerine
Put the hash and alcohol in a 1 oz bottle. Shake daily (or 2-3 times per day) for 3 days, or until the hash is fully dissolved in the alcohol.
Pour in the glycerine to fill the bottle almost to the top. In the next step you will reduce the liquid a bit so don't worry if it looks too full.
Put the bottle in a water bath, with the lid off the bottle, and heat to about 180 degrees for a few hours. I use a small crock pot that seems to be designed for potpourri. It tops out at 170 degrees. Shake the bottle (with the lid on) a couple of times while it is heating. I use a towel to hold the bottle so it doesn't burn my hands. Turn off the heat and let the bottle cool to room temperature.
Repeat this process 3 - 4 times or until the mixture has taken on a thicker liquid consistency and you get a glob of gelatin-looking resin floating on top. I also go by smell at this stage. You should have evaporated off much of the alcohol, so the smell should be closer to the smell of hash than the smell of alcohol.
When the step above is complete, heat one more time to warm up the tincture. In this step you will be filtering the goo out of the tincture and that goes better when it is warm. For small batches (as described in this message) I've found a small paper coffee filter to be the best filter. When doing larger batches (3 + ounces of tincture) I use one of those gold-plated "eternal" coffee filters. If using the paper filter, you need to squeeze it to be sure all the tincture has been removed. For the bigger filter, it is easier to use a spoon and rub the goo/tincture around the filter until you are left with just goo inside the filter.
Now you're done. The dose on this tincture is somewhere between 2 and 6 drops, depending on your body size and what effect you are going for. I always start on the low end of the spectrum, wait 30 minutes and add a drop or two each 30 minutes until I figure out the right dose.
eyecandi
Well-Known Member
i wonder how a comparison would do? i've always decarbed 1st from old habits. maybe because i did a comparison a long time ago, I really don't remember though, lol.
i really need to get some glycerin. made a batch of B151 tinc last month, but I hate the taste so bad I won't take any (major dislike of hard liquors)
i really need to get some glycerin. made a batch of B151 tinc last month, but I hate the taste so bad I won't take any (major dislike of hard liquors)
Medshed
Well-Known Member
Finshaggy would seriously blow a nut over the amount of perfectly good trim I've wasted making perfectly bad tincture. I tried everything from straight alcohol to straight glycerin, and straight trim to straight hash. I kind of fumbled my way into this recipe through that process, with an "aha" moment thanks to a friend and a bottle of MMC tincture. The label on that bottle said "hash, vodka, glycerin" and I decided to give it a try. The taste of this tincture is exactly like the hash you use to make it with. The alcohol (I believe) improves the THC absorption over straight glycerin. Since you pretty much evaporate the alcohol out during the cooking process the taste is no longer there.
As for the decarb process, I did try the oven method early in my experiments but I haven't done a side-by-side with this recipe. I don't think it would make a difference though. I believe you can decarb using either fast, hot methods or slow, less hot methods. This one is the slow, less hot approach.
Here's what Ed says about the topic: (http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2794.html)
However, it is easy to make sure all the THC is decarboxylated and is at full strength before it is extracted. Although decarboxylation takes place rapidly at 106? C, it proceeds at a more gradual pace by placing the cannabis in a room with low relative humidity and room temperature. As the temperature rises, the rate of decarboxylation increases.
Cannabis can also be placed in a food dehydrator to remove the carboxyl group. Although the heat in the food dehydrator doesn't rise to 106? C, the temperature is warm enough to promote drying and the release of the water and CO2. When the marijuana is crispy and brittle you can be assured that the carboxyl group has been removed from the cannabinoids and they are ready for extraction or removal from the plant material.
BTW - you can get glycerin at Whole Foods or similar stores. I just bought some at Whole Foods for about $4.50 for 4 ounces. That is a bit pricey but an ounce of tincture goes a long way...
ColdArmySoldier
Well-Known Member
Medshed, I have been planning to do a alcohol/glycerin extraction since I talked with EC at the expo about how it take so much less time. What are the starting amounts of your alcohol and glycerin? Do you START with 1 oz. of glycerin, or end up with that amount at the end?
Also, attached is a paper about the kinetics of decarboxylation of THCA (it is a link from my public Dropbox since it wouldn't let me upload a pdf). It basically expresses what Ed said about it, decarboxylation still happens at lower temperature, it just takes longer. 5-10 hours of cooking near 170F (350K) should decarb most of the THCA. The paper gives rate constants, activation energies, and tells that it is a first order rate constant so you could calculate the time at different temperatures if so desired.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13992797/THC_Decarb.pdf
Also, attached is a paper about the kinetics of decarboxylation of THCA (it is a link from my public Dropbox since it wouldn't let me upload a pdf). It basically expresses what Ed said about it, decarboxylation still happens at lower temperature, it just takes longer. 5-10 hours of cooking near 170F (350K) should decarb most of the THCA. The paper gives rate constants, activation energies, and tells that it is a first order rate constant so you could calculate the time at different temperatures if so desired.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13992797/THC_Decarb.pdf
Medshed
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that link CAS. I've just been sort of going by smell to figure out whether I have heated the tincture long enough to decarb. Now I can be a bit more precise.
As for liquid amounts, I start with 1 oz total liquid and end up with a little less. I haven't measured the final volume precisely but it doesn't shrink by more than 10% I would guess.
Now that I've completely hijacked MacGuyver's thread (sorry) I'll start a new thread and do a pictorial documentation of the process.
As for liquid amounts, I start with 1 oz total liquid and end up with a little less. I haven't measured the final volume precisely but it doesn't shrink by more than 10% I would guess.
Now that I've completely hijacked MacGuyver's thread (sorry) I'll start a new thread and do a pictorial documentation of the process.
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
Woah! That file is VERY helpful CAS! Thanks tons for posting that, will def help me (and others) out!.
Medshed- Big thanks also for that tincture recipe, I'm stoked to try it out now!
And this isn't *my* thread... it belongs to us all, so if you have knowledge to share, please feel free!
Medshed- Big thanks also for that tincture recipe, I'm stoked to try it out now!
And this isn't *my* thread... it belongs to us all, so if you have knowledge to share, please feel free!
Medshed
Well-Known Member
Here's what I ended up with from my dry ice experiment. I'm a satisfied customer...
View attachment 2085515
It's interesting how the Ketama came out in little logs while the others were more like keif. I have read that high CBD strains have more oily trichomes. I haven't had the Ketama tested, but from smoking it I do feel like it is higher in CBD. My theory is that is why the Ketama clumps up more than the others.
View attachment 2085515
It's interesting how the Ketama came out in little logs while the others were more like keif. I have read that high CBD strains have more oily trichomes. I haven't had the Ketama tested, but from smoking it I do feel like it is higher in CBD. My theory is that is why the Ketama clumps up more than the others.
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
Medshed-
Who is this strain you call Ketama from? Not sure if I'd heard of it before, but it sures sounds interesting! And it looks like you ended up with some NICE kief! Good times they are a comin!
MacGuyver4.2.0
Well-Known Member
I have never used the D.I.E. (Dry Ice Extraction) on anything less than an quart ziplock basically full of trim, so not sure what you mean by 'small amounts'. I would venture to say yes, but there are factors to consider like:
-How frosty is the trim to start with? If it isn't fairly decent, it won't amount to much in the long run.
Some have better luck with smaller amounts at once anyways, as opposed to trying to shake a 5 gallon bucket bag half way full.
By having smaller amounts and breaking up your dry ice into about golf ball sized chunks, you have more dry ice surface area to make contact with the trim, extracting more of it quickly(which is important, from a purist point of view).
This is what gets you the super fine, golden kief- Think of it as the 'first pressing of an olive to yield: extra virgin olive oil. (that's actually how its made)
Then you scrape it into a pile and shake again: This time it may be a bit 'greener' looking. This is the second run, or just regular oilve oil. Get it?
It also helps to-
Keep your bags themselves, in the freezer with the trim.
When you take them both out to use them, the realitive temperature of the bag and trim will be about the same.
If you kept the bag at *room* temp, the ice cold trim would hit the warm bag as would the dry ice.
Now that dry ice is about 109.3 degrees below zero...deadly cold, and will give you instant skin burns, so be careful!
-How frosty is the trim to start with? If it isn't fairly decent, it won't amount to much in the long run.
Some have better luck with smaller amounts at once anyways, as opposed to trying to shake a 5 gallon bucket bag half way full.
By having smaller amounts and breaking up your dry ice into about golf ball sized chunks, you have more dry ice surface area to make contact with the trim, extracting more of it quickly(which is important, from a purist point of view).
This is what gets you the super fine, golden kief- Think of it as the 'first pressing of an olive to yield: extra virgin olive oil. (that's actually how its made)
Then you scrape it into a pile and shake again: This time it may be a bit 'greener' looking. This is the second run, or just regular oilve oil. Get it?
It also helps to-
Keep your bags themselves, in the freezer with the trim.
When you take them both out to use them, the realitive temperature of the bag and trim will be about the same.
If you kept the bag at *room* temp, the ice cold trim would hit the warm bag as would the dry ice.
Now that dry ice is about 109.3 degrees below zero...deadly cold, and will give you instant skin burns, so be careful!
ganjaman87
Well-Known Member
So threadstarter im just making sure, but please tell me you made that dry ice hash with frozen trim??? I am going to be one happy camper if so because I have a freezer full of pre-98 bubba trimmings just dying to be hashed
TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
mmmm Pre-98 bubba hash, that sounds really really good right now!