Any Existing Evidence that Clones upon Clones Degrade Yield or Quality?

Marlboro47

Well-Known Member
Way too many theorys in here. Why is someone trying to compare a regular plant to an autoflower? Also, cloning humans has nothing to do with plants. Dumb trolls...

How is keeping a mother plant better then making a clone of a clone?
Won't the mother plant have more stress since you're cutting it over and over again?
Won't a plant(clone) that grows fresh roots be fresher since its less woody and closer to the water source?
A mother plant would only be better if cannabis is actually proven to degenerate over time.

I think the real question here is do plants accumulate stress over the years? Or does it enter a "relaxed" state if grown without stressing it for a good ammount of time.

Obviously DNA doesn't change, so how often does mutation occur in cannabis strain?

Only thing that I've heard that supports the cannabinoids degrading, is that it is an annual plant(Found on wikipedia, Ctrl+F then type annual to find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis).
With it being an annual plant, it makes sense that it will degrade over time. But does it?

People support growing from seed to have a mother plant, cloning 3-4times that year from the mother plant then getting rid of the mother plant at the end of the year to grow an other mother plant from seed for the next year. There is probably less risk with this process.

Others support cloning clones, basically until your done with it or a fatal accident occurs.
There are some that do that with great results and others that say it does degenerate over time.

My hypothesis is that clones of clones and even clones of mothers do degenerate over time, mainly because it is an annual plant. But if your plant is green and thriving I am in doubt that you will see the effects of degeneration. In this case, degeneration could mean that your plant just won't live as long as one from seed would. (Maybe dying after 10-15years of clones). It could also mean that the seeds will be less likely to germinate and or bring you healthy sprouts(could be completely wrong about the seeds since no one is complaining about the quality of THC on a healthy clone that flowered).

I think I will have to study this myself and even do some smoke tests with some friends to see if its noticably different with later clones. Since Im making seeds Im probably only going clone clones for 2years top, then grow from seed again for a different strain.
 

Marlboro47

Well-Known Member
On a side note, I would only keep cloning clones if it was no longer availible in seeds, and I would probably just breed it with an other really really good strain.(probably keep cloning clones until I ran across something just as rare).
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
i have been doing it this way for many years, i find it more practical than keeping long term mothers

i haven't found any disadvantage when taking clones from clones i start a new mother each crop from the new clones i take each crop

in the past i have kept the same seed mother plants for years
as taking clones from older seed mothers is supposed to have advantages, i did it this way at first, i have seen no advantage in practice over starting fresh mothers from clones at each harvest

although i have found taking clones from rejuvenated mothers has helped to speed up flowering a little and keep them smaller
 

fabodnickMD

Member
...........Plus if your clones keep dying off then just hermy one out, and let it pollinate itself, all the same genes, with seed stock.

This is why genetics become "unstable" it's clowns like this that assume that this would be a solution to faltering genetics as opposed to popping some F1's and doing some legwork. I hope no-one out there would really take this persons [or mine for that matter] advice.....REALLY
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
This is why genetics become "unstable" it's clowns like this that assume that this would be a solution to faltering genetics as opposed to popping some F1's and doing some legwork. I hope no-one out there would really take this persons [or mine for that matter] advice.....REALLY
not the best idea i agree .. although s1's tend to be ok .. its the s2's and so on that are more likely to show hemy and other undesirable traits
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
yeh give it a try, you will notice that your clones taken from a rejuvenated plant seem to grow with a few pistils/pre flowers during veg
they will start flowering quicker too and stay overall smaller due to less stretch

im not saying you will notice a dramatic change in size, but it should be enough to notice it and keep things smaller if you need to
each strain pheno will respond differently
 

hyperducer

Member
Hey ,hope you don't mind me jumpin in, but I have a plant that I've been growing since I got out of school. All I'm gonna say on that is ,I'm fifty. I was told its a sensi seeds. Skunk#1xNL#5, and the guy who gave it to me said it took many Skunk males to find the right pheno....,anyhow, he clones it ,makes a new mom, and has been going from clone for 30 years. And it is still the chokinest bud EVER !!!
 

MasterS

Well-Known Member
As it should be hyperducer. People seem to think genetics are a bag of marbles and mutations are a dime a dozen.
 

Joedank

Well-Known Member
Eventually the clones 50 gens down yeild /smell less and other things do to genetic material breaking down over the course of thousands of gens... Chemdog wrote how he took clones back way down the line years later that exhibited strange qualities...
 

Alpha492

Active Member
Actually I was talking to my botany professor about this like 2 days ago. Contrary to popular belief clones of the right clones suffer no genetic loss. As the plant regenerates itself it actually experiences similar gene dispersions during cellular reproduction as it would during sexual reproduction. I'm sure clones don't quite experience the same genetic variations as an actual second generation. However it is safe to say that a clone is a plant of its own, and not at all a clone. So its doubtable that generations of clones actually lose genetic potency, but like a said clones produce their own unique genes through cellular reproduction. If you clone off a shitty clone, odds are you will get a shitty clone. The inverse being true also.
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
Way too many theorys in here. Why is someone trying to compare a regular plant to an autoflower? Also, cloning humans has nothing to do with plants. Dumb trolls...

How is keeping a mother plant better then making a clone of a clone?
Won't the mother plant have more stress since you're cutting it over and over again?
Won't a plant(clone) that grows fresh roots be fresher since its less woody and closer to the water source?
A mother plant would only be better if cannabis is actually proven to degenerate over time.

I think the real question here is do plants accumulate stress over the years? Or does it enter a "relaxed" state if grown without stressing it for a good ammount of time.

Obviously DNA doesn't change, so how often does mutation occur in cannabis strain?

Only thing that I've heard that supports the cannabinoids degrading, is that it is an annual plant(Found on wikipedia, Ctrl+F then type annual to find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis).
With it being an annual plant, it makes sense that it will degrade over time. But does it?

People support growing from seed to have a mother plant, cloning 3-4times that year from the mother plant then getting rid of the mother plant at the end of the year to grow an other mother plant from seed for the next year. There is probably less risk with this process.

Others support cloning clones, basically until your done with it or a fatal accident occurs.
There are some that do that with great results and others that say it does degenerate over time.

My hypothesis is that clones of clones and even clones of mothers do degenerate over time, mainly because it is an annual plant. But if your plant is green and thriving I am in doubt that you will see the effects of degeneration. In this case, degeneration could mean that your plant just won't live as long as one from seed would. (Maybe dying after 10-15years of clones). It could also mean that the seeds will be less likely to germinate and or bring you healthy sprouts(could be completely wrong about the seeds since no one is complaining about the quality of THC on a healthy clone that flowered).

I think I will have to study this myself and even do some smoke tests with some friends to see if its noticably different with later clones. Since Im making seeds Im probably only going clone clones for 2years top, then grow from seed again for a different strain.
How is keeping a mother plant better then making a clone of a clone?
My mothers are at full maturity, thus allowing me to airlayer clones the size of some folks entire garden. :) That's why.

Won't the mother plant have more stress since you're cutting it over and over again?
Stress? yes, but at what cost. Hermaphroditic? Not as a rule nor out weighing the benefit. Prone strains possibly regardless of type of stress. JC2's herm at a ratio of 50% according to its creator however, clone after clone after clone, never improved nor increased this in the flowering plant in our gardens. Granted: Environmental conditions affect on phenotype and onset of genetic disorder, leave this to be entirely possible, just not quite and or always plausible.

Won't a plant(clone) that grows fresh roots be fresher since its less woody and closer to the water source?
Fresher? now that takes some elaboration to even understand your question.

A mother plant would only be better if cannabis is actually proven to degenerate over time.
Statement of question? Question - A: No. Statement - Incorrect, lacking experience and understanding of various methods of cultivation. (cannabis near the equator can grow year round)...Imagine the possible sizes of the clones...See no benefit?

Woodsmantoker~
 

woodsmantoker

Well-Known Member
My suggestion:

In that we all play an important role in this movement. Education is also a key role, *thank you RIU*. (slaves were kept as such and the decedents treated unequal until educated)

Consider asking questions before making uneducated statements that need corrections in order to keep the next ignorant seeker of knowledge from taking it as fact, and slowing the progression of this movement. You look less ignorant with a silly question than an incorrect statement. FYI

Thanks to the OP for the continued effort to gain and provide education.
 

MasterS

Well-Known Member
I really like all the varying opinions and the little flaming going on ^_^

One thing we need to point out is that they aren't technically clones, any other botanist/grower I know calls them cuttings not clones. The term "clones" is cannabis culture ingrained.
 

michaeljdumpout

Well-Known Member
Ive heard of this but never had that problem. I do this all year round and have been doing so for 3 years now and never lost quality if any thing this is how i got my yileds up up and away
 
this was a great thread to come across while tripping and contemplating how to keep maximum strains with minimum space..... very interesting to me right now....
 

Phaeton

Active Member
Another thread on clone longevity. I read the first page, read the last page, then post my experience and don't argue with anyone. From 1989 until 2001 I used the same hybrid clone. Never a problem.

After my break was over I went about picking a new strain I liked, found one three years ago and have been using it since then, never a problem.

I was gifted a Northern Lights from a grower going through a breakup, he had been running it since 2003, I am not having any problems with it.

Will the plants eventually degrade over time? I really can't work up enough interest to care, they last long enough for me.
 

malignant

Well-Known Member
quality? who knows for sure, but resistance to bugs/mold/disease those go when you take cuttings. including a decrease in yield in comparison to seedlings.
 
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