"Cap and Trade" Bill voted on tomorrow.
- Thread starter Microdizzey
- Start date
Mcgician
Well-Known Member
And kept your country safe too! You're wrong about what the affect will be. The American economy is one of consumerism mostly, and production as well. Care to brag about all the leading Canandian exports in a comparo? LOL. The impact of this will be felt WORLDWIDE. Traditional American companies will flee US markets and ship themselves overseas where environmental laws aren't as strict, and it will defeat the whole purpose it was supposedly created to do in the first place. Jobs will be lost like you've never seen, energy prices will go through the roof, and since EVERYTHING you do/consume requires energy, the impact will (or will not, by the ignornant) be seen in the form of cost increases in EVERYTHING as well. The worst part, is that it is all rooted in junk science. I say we let the people that believe in Global Warming voluntarily pay for it through their energy bill. Just say, "I think the Cap and Trade/"Global Warming" lol bill is a great idea, go ahead and put me down for a cost increase, I don't mind." LOLOL!! Leave the rest of us the fuck alone!!
HAHAHA without us you wouldn't have wood to build you're houses let alone electricity to heat and light them. do you forget also that a great portion of your food comes from us as well. we are your greatest and most important allie, without us you probably wouldn't have won a lot of those wars. Hopefully I should have to bring up the time the americans tried to invade us in the past we've sent em running with their tails between their legs. The only reason why our economy is tied to yours is because of the American idea of manifest destiny. YOu all believe that you have a right to cheap energy cheap food and cheap shelter, but what you don't realize is that your greed and low-cost living is the reason why the rest of the world is starving or freezing or dying of disease. because you have control of the world's resources, and you hold it over us all. You are a self-centered nation a will continue to be a self-cenetered nation because you still believe you own everything. If we don't like it you just threaten us with a fist. that's how it is.
It's Time for Change.
It's Time for Change.
Mcgician
Well-Known Member
I didn't really want this conversation to be about Canada vs. the USA, but oh well. Nobody's forcing those forests your country volutarily chops down for profit to do so. Your country does that out of its OWN greed. Not counting the many wars America's shouldered almost ENTIRELY on its own in the name of good and freedom which your country inherently benefits from every single day, Canada has yet to prove itself as a major player in terms of production or consumption. Hell, that country will just about take anybody as a citizen, as their population base needs it. As such, it's impact in global terms are much smaller. As we've seen, as the American economy goes, so goes the world's. Who knew that all it would take were Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, and Goldman Sachs, and Tim Geithner to do it!? What you may not realize is that this bill will negatively affect Canada too. When more money is taken out of people's pockets, their ability to prop up business, (no matter where it's from) is diminished. This bill will NOT level the playing field. Only an ignorant fool who's not read far enough into what this bill entails would believe that. This is a power grab, plain and simple. No pun intended. The banks, healthcare, energy, etc. are now ALL in the hands of the US government. FUCK CHANGE! This country's freedoms and independence are quickly fading from freedom blue, to Commie RED!
I don't think The U.S. has actaully ever really paid us for any of our resources. maybe a nickel here or a dime there. Nothing large enough to "Fuel our greed". In actuality it is likewise, our country srambles to collect resources to feed YOUR country's greed. You said it yourself. The U.S. runs the global economy. therefore whatever we do to affect our economy is actaully just to better feed your economy. Our dollar is way lower than yours right now. And it makes nooooo seense. You guys have no resources at all. IF we sht you off, no power, no food, no lumber who will help you. oh yeah and let me get back on the topic of GLOBAL ECONOMY, what a fucking stupid idea. It's pretty much nothing more than Insurance. So if The U.S. goes down they're taking everyone with em. another classic example of manifest destiny and the US government's manipulative control over everything. AND WHAT FREEDOM DO YOU SPEAK OF. you can't begin to believe that you're free or you're country is truely free. You stand up and defend and country and a government that has clearly betrayed its people. It just goes to show that they still have complete power over you. Physical and Mental. Just the fact that you still believe that all of these wars are for freedom and liberty. Grow up. Lift the veil from your eyes and smell the coffee. The U.S. does not have the resources to support itself. It invades countries to collect resources for itself. most of the wars have absolutley nothing to do with the U.S. to begin with. Vietnam for example. oh and ya yo guys lost that one pretty bad.
I would like to take this oppurtunity to clarify that i have absolutley nothing against the United States or any country for that matter. But I do have a big problem with how we behave. We have truely lost our grip on what it is to be human. We think that everything around us is just there for the taking. This is what has brung us to this state of affairs. we are running out of resources at an alarming rate. Our population has gone through the roof. Instead of teaching kids how to do algebra or find the atomic mass of a nuclei we should teach kids how to grow they're own food, build they're own houses (the unconventional way) and just be self sufficient. They don't want that though. They want you to depend on them to survive. To have to buy their food for sustanance, their homes for shelter, and their schools for an education. Has anyone put it together that in that last 10 thousand years of human existence we have depended on none of these things for survival. It's like they'er going against the laws of nature. People may call it evolution but I believe it to be the opposite. I thin the direction our world and or people have been going in for the past couple hundred years is completely wrong. Our whole concept of our belonging is so misconstrued. We should be one with the earth not own the earth. It's the only home we have. We, AS the people, have more power than the government can ever have. EVER. We are the government. We are one. Canadian, American, Mexican, Islamic, Arab, It doesn't matter. The people themsleves are not the enemy. It our leaders that are the enemy. This is why it's easy for them to control us. Divide and conquer. It simple if they break us up we're easier to control just like cattle. That's where the media comes in. Calling arabs and whatnot "Insurgents" and "evil-doers" makes it much easier hate them. this alone is divide and conquer. Think about hw many iraqi and muslims and stuff have lived in canada and the U.S. for years. escaping they're horrible opressive countries only to be oppressed once again because of the thoughts and ideologies of one group. It's like say that becase President Bush is American that all Americans are like "dubya", whichc isn't the case. I've met many americans who are absolute wonderful people. but like i say, divide and conquer. The more differences we settle amongst ourselves, the more differences we settle amongst others as well. Be independant everyone. See how easy it really is. it saves money and resources. Plus the food is of mch better quality when you grow it and raise it yourself. Who knows what they're feeding us these days. Like GMOs. That it one of the ultimate forms of greed. Genetically modified crops. how can they do this to our own people. they're trying to make it illegal for farmers to raise NON-Geneticaly Modified Cows. Isn't that fucked. Like if you don't by our product we'll shut you down, arrest and charge you for doing what you've been doing for past hundred years. The people are not the enemy. The Leaders are. That is why i take back anything offensive i may have said about americans. It's not You but our leaders who i despise. I think i realized without all of you there is only me. And, I alone cannot change a thing. We need to get the truth out there by anymeans. Think of ho many people have no idea what our leaders are really up to. Help me help you. help me help us. Don't let them control us. Speak out. IT's only you're dependece on the government, MCgician, that gives them power. NOTHING ELSE! I also just want to bring up one more thing. The American government has killed more civilians than any other ruling country in the history of the world! How can anyone support that. I hate that canadian government for our participation in the war. I've never been ashamed to be a canadian untill steven harper became prime minister.
Mcgician
Well-Known Member
Dnag, you made so many different points it's a little hard to encapsulate all of it and respond, but for the most part I agree with what you've said about needing to be better stewards of the Earth than we are now. Let's realize though, that in doing that though, we are still doing so mainly out of self-serving, human need. The Earth will recover from ANYTHING we do, humans will be the ones that will have to change.
As far as your view on war(s), the reasons for them, and strange reasoning concerning the numbers of dead civilians, it's hard to know where to begin. Are you saying the US shouldn't have intervened in WWI or WWII, etc. and allowed even MORE people to be slaughtered? Countless civilian lives have been SAVED as a result of our intervention along the way- far more than your claim of what the US is responsible for. Also, the dynamics of human history have been changed forever as a result of American intervention, and MOST would say for the better. It seems to me, the only ones that disagree with that are the ungrateful, and those that have been spoiled by liberty and safe haven. More people flock to the US than any other country. Why do you think that is? Be honest with yourself, and you won't be able to deny that liberty, capitalism, and opportunity are the reasons behind it.
Regarding your numbers on out-of-control population growth, that is untrue regarding most European countries, and also holds true here in the US, ASIDE FROM THE latin influx from south of our border. Amazing how one race in particular is able to change that dynamic all by themselves isn't it? Europe's population is decreasing, their economy is mostly comprised of "old money", and unless they embrace more capiltalistic ideology, they will soon drown in their own pool of Socialism. They simply don't have the population to support it. As Margaret Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is, at some point you run out of everyone else's money."
Earlier, you mentioned my naivety regarding why wars are fought. Reasons vary, and I suppose you're right, at some point along the line, somebody profits. If that same logic is applied to this bill, who do you think that stands to profit? Since many aren't clear what is even in this bill yet, it's no surprise they haven't figured it out. The pursestrings controlling how much energy costs and how, and WHO will be doling it out, are now in the control of the government. For those that champion big government, this is a wet dream. I call it a nightmare. Much of the heartland, THE BREADBASKET of the world, let alone the US will be hit the hardest by this bill as much of their power is derived from non-renewable energy. Be assured though, this will hit EVERYONE hard, it's just a matter of how much. Those that want to see the US knocked down a rung or two, and other envious countries got their wish, only thing is, their economies are so linked to the US's, it will hit them hard too! That's the part people don't seem to understand. It's simple macroeconomics. The result, there will be more poor in the streets, fewer jobs, a diminished standard of living, and the gap between the rich and poor will expand. The poorest families will be hit the hardest, then the middle class, and the rich even less and the percentage of income spent on energy decreases the further up the rung you go. Even those who voted for "change" can't deny these facts. Too bad they were so eager vote in the "opposite of Bush". Little did they know they'd be looking at the destruction of free America. I saw it coming, because I listened to his campaign promises. None of what's happened is of any surprise to me. People who thought this fucktard was more moderate than he is were wrong! He's not your average Dem. Just look at who he took sides with with regard to what happened in Honduras. He sided with someone who was trying to set up a dictatorship the same as Hugo Chavez! He picked the same side as Fidel Castro! People need to wake the fuck up as to who this President really is. I for one, now that the Senate is filibuster-proof have never been so fearful. Sweeping, socialist change is on its way, and unless the PEOPLE take the time to pay attention and do something about it, this country is headed down the shithole. You can count on it.
As far as your view on war(s), the reasons for them, and strange reasoning concerning the numbers of dead civilians, it's hard to know where to begin. Are you saying the US shouldn't have intervened in WWI or WWII, etc. and allowed even MORE people to be slaughtered? Countless civilian lives have been SAVED as a result of our intervention along the way- far more than your claim of what the US is responsible for. Also, the dynamics of human history have been changed forever as a result of American intervention, and MOST would say for the better. It seems to me, the only ones that disagree with that are the ungrateful, and those that have been spoiled by liberty and safe haven. More people flock to the US than any other country. Why do you think that is? Be honest with yourself, and you won't be able to deny that liberty, capitalism, and opportunity are the reasons behind it.
Regarding your numbers on out-of-control population growth, that is untrue regarding most European countries, and also holds true here in the US, ASIDE FROM THE latin influx from south of our border. Amazing how one race in particular is able to change that dynamic all by themselves isn't it? Europe's population is decreasing, their economy is mostly comprised of "old money", and unless they embrace more capiltalistic ideology, they will soon drown in their own pool of Socialism. They simply don't have the population to support it. As Margaret Thatcher once said, "The problem with Socialism is, at some point you run out of everyone else's money."
Earlier, you mentioned my naivety regarding why wars are fought. Reasons vary, and I suppose you're right, at some point along the line, somebody profits. If that same logic is applied to this bill, who do you think that stands to profit? Since many aren't clear what is even in this bill yet, it's no surprise they haven't figured it out. The pursestrings controlling how much energy costs and how, and WHO will be doling it out, are now in the control of the government. For those that champion big government, this is a wet dream. I call it a nightmare. Much of the heartland, THE BREADBASKET of the world, let alone the US will be hit the hardest by this bill as much of their power is derived from non-renewable energy. Be assured though, this will hit EVERYONE hard, it's just a matter of how much. Those that want to see the US knocked down a rung or two, and other envious countries got their wish, only thing is, their economies are so linked to the US's, it will hit them hard too! That's the part people don't seem to understand. It's simple macroeconomics. The result, there will be more poor in the streets, fewer jobs, a diminished standard of living, and the gap between the rich and poor will expand. The poorest families will be hit the hardest, then the middle class, and the rich even less and the percentage of income spent on energy decreases the further up the rung you go. Even those who voted for "change" can't deny these facts. Too bad they were so eager vote in the "opposite of Bush". Little did they know they'd be looking at the destruction of free America. I saw it coming, because I listened to his campaign promises. None of what's happened is of any surprise to me. People who thought this fucktard was more moderate than he is were wrong! He's not your average Dem. Just look at who he took sides with with regard to what happened in Honduras. He sided with someone who was trying to set up a dictatorship the same as Hugo Chavez! He picked the same side as Fidel Castro! People need to wake the fuck up as to who this President really is. I for one, now that the Senate is filibuster-proof have never been so fearful. Sweeping, socialist change is on its way, and unless the PEOPLE take the time to pay attention and do something about it, this country is headed down the shithole. You can count on it.
jfgordon1
Well-Known Member
PLEASE CONTACT THESE 20 SENATORS AND URGE THEM TO OPPOSE CAP-AND-TRADE
AK - Mark Begich - (202) 224-3004
AR - Blanch Lincoln - (202) 224-4843
AR - Mark Pryor - (202) 224-2353
IN - Evan Bayh - (202) 224-5623
LA - Mary Landrieu - (202) 224-5824
MI - Carl Levin - (202) 224-6221
MI - Debbie Stabenow - (202) 224-4822
MT - Max Baucus - (202) 224-2651
MT - Jon Tester - (202) 224-2644
ND - Kent Conrad - (202) 224-2043
ND - Byron Dorgan - (202) 224-2551
NE - Ben Nelson - (202) 224-6551
OH - Sherrod Brown - (202) 224-2315
PA - Bob Casey - (202) 224-6324
PA - Arlen Specter - (202) 224-4254
SD - Tim Johnson - (202) 224-5842
VA - Mark Warner - (202) 224-2023
VA - Jim Webb - (202) 224-4024
WV - Robert Byrd - (202) 224-3954
WV - Jay Rockefeller - (202) 224-6472
AK - Mark Begich - (202) 224-3004
AR - Blanch Lincoln - (202) 224-4843
AR - Mark Pryor - (202) 224-2353
IN - Evan Bayh - (202) 224-5623
LA - Mary Landrieu - (202) 224-5824
MI - Carl Levin - (202) 224-6221
MI - Debbie Stabenow - (202) 224-4822
MT - Max Baucus - (202) 224-2651
MT - Jon Tester - (202) 224-2644
ND - Kent Conrad - (202) 224-2043
ND - Byron Dorgan - (202) 224-2551
NE - Ben Nelson - (202) 224-6551
OH - Sherrod Brown - (202) 224-2315
PA - Bob Casey - (202) 224-6324
PA - Arlen Specter - (202) 224-4254
SD - Tim Johnson - (202) 224-5842
VA - Mark Warner - (202) 224-2023
VA - Jim Webb - (202) 224-4024
WV - Robert Byrd - (202) 224-3954
WV - Jay Rockefeller - (202) 224-6472
Microdizzey
Well-Known Member
Thanks bro. You know when they vote?
jfgordon1
Well-Known Member
supposedly not till this fall. according to this article.
http://senatus.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/climate-change-counting/
It's amazing how there is zero information about it. it took me forever to even find that.
http://senatus.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/climate-change-counting/
It's amazing how there is zero information about it. it took me forever to even find that.
Microdizzey
Well-Known Member
Yeah seriously lol. I've tried to look around but I can't find the exact date. Can't find the bill number for the Senate either.