Conservatives hate your constitution

ginwilly said:

Indefinite detention without trial is not really an action I'd support, that feels like New America where we drone bomb teens, not the one that set the example of freedom to the rest of the world. I have no answers or suggestions what to do with these people, it's a cluster.

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If they are stateless mutt that no one will take: And the ones we do release kill again, for Jihad: They have no rights that are PROTECTED.

Inalienable rights are one thing. Protection about that, is the requirement. No protection, warring on the USA? Rghts are irrelevant. And we can't try them, we poisoned the well, for the intel.

Why sweat about these Sunni Mutt?. I feel no sympathy for vicious, feral dogs, do you?

You know what the would do to both of us, and any of us, given a chance. A given. And so they sit, treated quite well, considering.

Doer said:

Why sweat about these Sunni Mutt?. I feel no sympathy for vicious, feral dogs, do you?

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Nope, but I don't like the idea of just taking authority's word that these are feral dogs. I have no idea who and why every detainee is in GITMO. I know there are some really really bad people there no doubt, but are there any innocents that were caught in the crossfire? Presently, we can't know this and most likely never will. I do understand this to be the cost of war, weather those wars are fabricated or not.

It's a really shitty situation.

ginwilly said:

Nope, but I don't like the idea of just taking authority's word that these are feral dogs. I have no idea who and why every detainee is in GITMO. I know there are some really really bad people there no doubt, but are there any innocents that were caught in the crossfire? Presently, we can't know this and most likely never will. I do understand this to be the cost of war, weather those wars are fabricated or not.

It's a really shitty situation.

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Why do you care? It is all quite above board. We are not informed, so what? The job is protect the Constitutions. Not for us to really worry about, I think. You don't have the clearance to know, that's all.

Might makes protection. Nothing right or wrong about it.

And for your opinions about what is fabricated for what reasons...same answer.

Fabricating war? What do you think war is? Fabrications.

Dr Kynes said:

and a viscous case of the Crotch Crickets, which explains his insane ramblings and wild stories.

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Crotch crickets! lmfao!

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ChesusRice said:

So exactly when do they get a military tribunal?
For most it has been 11 years waiting for one?
As to enemy combatants. What uniform where they wearing? What country are they from that we declared war with? Why cant the red cross/crescent visit them?

And finally if our constitution is so strong, why can they not be tried in a court of law or moved to the USA?

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Chesus, an enemy combatant/unlawful combatant does not need to be wearing any uniform. Even if some douche that's butt naked blows something up to cause - or with intent to cause - mass harm and death, aka if the crime is belligerent illegal, they are considered unlawful combatants and lose their rights REGARDLESS of citizenship. Do your research friend.

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Current Setup: 4x4x8 veg room, 8 x 100W equiv. CFL, approx. 250CFM in/out. 11 ladies growing in TGA Organic Soil with 1/3 TGA Super Soil bed.

Some of us have businesses to run and can't sit on the internet all day and night and complain about how their life sucks due to having a black man in a white house. Don't flatter yourselves. You poor gringos love to hate because you have nothing, are nothing, and will never amount to anything. You hate everything you aren't and can never become. If you decide to kill yourselves let me know, I will piss on your graves after you are in the ground.

All that hate is going to eat you up inside

El Tiberon said:

Some of us have businesses to run and can't sit on the internet all day and night and complain about how their life sucks due to having a black man in a white house. Don't flatter yourselves. You poor gringos love to hate because you have nothing, are nothing, and will never amount to anything. You hate everything you aren't and can never become. If you decide to kill yourselves let me know, I will piss on your graves after you are in the ground.

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Oh you mean like the business I own? Difference between you and I is my business doesn't control me, I control it. I went into business for myself for one purpose and one only, time freedom.

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El Tiberon said:

Some of us have businesses to run and can't sit on the internet all day and night and complain about how their life sucks due to having a black man in a white house. Don't flatter yourselves. You poor gringos love to hate because you have nothing, are nothing, and will never amount to anything. You hate everything you aren't and can never become. If you decide to kill yourselves let me know, I will piss on your graves after you are in the ground.

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Are you still talking?

Doer said:

Why do you care? It is all quite above board. We are not informed, so what? The job is protect the Constitutions. Not for us to really worry about, I think. You don't have the clearance to know, that's all.

Might makes protection. Nothing right or wrong about it.

And for your opinions about what is fabricated for what reasons...same answer.

Fabricating war? What do you think war is? Fabrications.

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Am I concerned enough to want GITMO closed? No, I don't want those people running around. Am I concerned that indefinite detention could happen to US citizens? Most definitely. I see no reason to believe this is happening, but I saw no reason to believe we are specifically drone bombing citizens without due process either.

I stand by my original assertion that GITMO is a cluster-fuck.

ChesusRice said:

So exactly when do they get a military tribunal?

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after the conflict is OVER and their organization is either defeated or surrenders.

ChesusRice said:

For most it has been 11 years waiting for one?

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hostilities continue unabated. when AQ, and the various subgroups surrender then trials for war crimes may begin.

ChesusRice said:

As to enemy combatants. What uniform where they wearing?

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no uniform, thus under the international laws of war, they are "Illegal Combatants", not prisoners of war.

ChesusRice said:

What country are they from that we declared war with?

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Dar Al Ismam.
Dar Al Islam declared war on us.
Dar Al Islam is an Extra National Organization it appears on no maps, and encompasses many nations' beligerants, but no recognized states (now that the talibs are defeated, sorta).
we are at war with an IDEOLOGY, notably Islamic Jihad, not a nationstate. when Islamic Jihad is defeated, then the "detainees" can be tried for their crimes.
until such time as they are tried, they have the same status as Kony's "army", pirates at sea, viking raiders or members of the Mongol Horde. they are EXTRA-NATIONAL PRISONERS, bandits loyal to no flag, with no fortresses to attack and no king to defeat.

ChesusRice said:

Why cant the red cross/crescent visit them?

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because they are ILLEGAL COMBATANTS, not prisoners of war and as such are not subject to the Laws Of War.

ChesusRice said:

And finally if our constitution is so strong, why can they not be tried in a court of law or moved to the USA?

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they are NOT american citizens thus not accountable to our laws, they are brigands serving a mythological bandit god-king, thus they are criminals, but the sort which have traditionally been summarily executed, with only the bosses being brought back for interrogation, a show trial and a public hanging or a comical ragdoll plummet from the Tarpeian Rock.

our laws have no jurisdiction over their crimes, and our modern system of justice has no solution to deal with this sort of criminal, or if you will "Hostis Humani Generis". (google it)

if you want them prosecuted like common burglars or ordinary street criminals you will have to explain how they can be tried for crimes outside our country, or in fact outside ANY country, where real laws prevail.


when terrorists engage in terrorism INSIDE a civilized nation and are caught they can be tried like ordinary criminals, but when they operate INTERNATIONALLY, thats when you gotta go get em, drag them out of their holes, and decide whether to shoot them on the spot or bring em home to squeeze information out of them before they are executed for their crimes.

ChesusRice said:

So exactly when do they get a military tribunal?
No Right to it.

For most it has been 11 years waiting for one?
Another 100 will suit just fine.

As to enemy combatants. What uniform where they wearing?
Not in unifrom, the very point and definition of EC.

What country are they from that we declared war with?
None, Stateless, the very point.

Why cant the red cross/crescent visit them?
SPIES, these Dogs have special info on the military insde and what motivates our fighters. 20 somethings are not foolproof.

And finally if our constitution is so strong, why can they not be tried in a court of law or moved to the USA?
No PROTECTED Rights.

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All those questions are absurd. Like you really have no clue about the USA.

WE don't owe these mutts or anyone, an explanation. To me it is very clear. The Constitution is not to be tested by bringing in Jihad dogs to our Courts.

Pubic Mob opinion will not be jacked around for Sunni Jihad and Stateless tangos. They are below the bar of civilization, and not redeemed.

This attitude says this is just a GAME, goofing around. How strong is this Founding? That is the risk. Oh let us see if it is strong enough, for this or that?....How about Vicious Dogs of Armageddon? Is that too much? Woops. Broke it.

The Oath is to preserve it.

So, really you mean, let's try to kill the Constitution. It is an Anti-Con mistake. It is not perfect, merely an attempt to form a More Perfect Union.

This is called destructive testing, and all systems fail that test.

This Union will be preserved or this Planet will be in ashes. Mutual Assured Destruction.. The Oath of Office. REAL.

Sorry, you don't make these calls from an amateur point of view. Mob rule will not happen. Jihad wants it. They have thrived for centuries with Conquest using mob rule. Not here. We will torch it first..... The Jefferson Doctrine on Sunni Jihad.

We elect a President for decisions. His job is to get up to speed on the killing and continue the Presidency in every way.

Nothing has changed.

Doer said:

To me it is very clear. The Constitution is not to be tested by bring in Jihad dogs to our courts.

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What about hunting dogs or guide dogs for the disabled?

abandonconflict said:

What about hunting dogs or guide dogs for the disabled?

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Well, are they Jihad or not? Simple, as you well know. And if you are a dog person, you don't like how our canine friends are
abused under Islam.

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The majority of both Sunni and Shi'a Muslim jurists consider dogs to be ritually unclean (Najis).[SUP][27][/SUP] [SUP][/SUP]



Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed. (Bukhari Book #54, Hadith #540)


(1) Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time. (Muslim Book #002, Hadith #0551)


(4) Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) giving command for killing dogs. (Muslim Book #010, Hadith #3809)

[SUP][/SUP]-----------------


We will put this entire Planet to the Flame, before we allow the degradation of Jihad. And not just for the dogs, that's personal for me.

We have come very close already to Cleansing this biosphere of Humans and most all else, and it is no joke.

Dr Kynes said:

when AQ, and the various subgroups surrender then trials for war crimes may begin.

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Cannot and will not happen. That would require a trial that was based on evidence and fact. Too much to declassify and not the kind of shit you want the Hague hearing about.

Doer said:

Well, are they Jihad or not? Simple, as you well know. And if you are a dog person, you don't like how our canine friends are
abused under Islam.

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The majority of both Sunni and Shi'a Muslim jurists consider dogs to be ritually unclean (Najis).[SUP][27][/SUP] [SUP][/SUP]



Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed. (Bukhari Book #54, Hadith #540)


(1) Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time. (Muslim Book #002, Hadith #0551)


(4) Ibn 'Umar (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) giving command for killing dogs. (Muslim Book #010, Hadith #3809)

[SUP][/SUP]-----------------


We will put this entire Planet to the Flame, before we allow the degradation of Jihad. And not just for the dogs, that's personal for me.

We have come very close already to Cleansing this biosphere of Humans and most all else, and it is no joke.

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didn't you see the GITMO pictures? Intimidation by military working dog is an acceptable interrogation technique. Built into the plan & approach and everything

echelon1k1 said:

didn't you see the GITMO pictures? Intimidation by military working dog is an acceptable interrogation technique. Built into the plan & approach and everything

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These are American Dogs. Kill dogs?...these ain't those mangy dump site dogs. Killer dogs. The British used to warp them in wet fresh, pig hide and bury them under the sand, in the sun.

Or water water everywhere, but you don't want to drink this water, or breath it.

Stephen Pressfield is very good at exposing the darker, personal side of confilct. I'm reading the Profession.

2022 and China is sided with Islam in Africa, and it is atrocious. The Horror...the horror.

echelon1k1 said:

Cannot and will not happen. That would require a trial that was based on evidence and fact. Too much to declassify and not the kind of shit you want the Hague hearing about.

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so the hague doesnt prosecute nazis, japanese military leaders, slobodan milosevic, or any other war criminal they can lay hands on?

Kony is gonna be glad to hear he cannot be prosecuted.

echelon1k1 said:

didn't you see the GITMO pictures? Intimidation by military working dog is an acceptable interrogation technique. Built into the plan & approach and everything

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we use exactly the same techniques to subdue american criminals, both before and after trial.

why should illegal combatants in a foreign war be held to a higher standard than purse snatchers and muggers in california?

Dr Kynes said:

so the hague doesnt prosecute nazis, japanese military leaders, slobodan milosevic, or any other war criminal they can lay hands on?

Kony is gonna be glad to hear he cannot be prosecuted.

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All the examples you've cited are state actors.

How do you prosecute an individual non-state actor; specifically a Senior AQ or Jihadist Operative, in a "world court" when the methods used to find, fix, finish and debrief him remain classified and/or questionable?

If the evidence against an individual is a signed confession gained under duress (torture) how do you prosecute?