Defoliation

I remove probably 20% of upper canopy leaves about a week before flip. Then another whack at that about week 4. Light bulbs lack the strength of par that the sun does and I have found that removing some leaves helps plump up and give that nice finished color to more buds.

For all the people beating the snake oil drum... Who the fuck cares what other people grow with? You guys are now the weed fucking gods? Gods gift to canabis? Yeah. Many a newb gets sucked into this booster and that booster. Your money is much better spent on environmental controls, that much is assured but really...this notion that your all somehow better because of what you don't use.

legallyflying said:

I remove probably 20% of upper canopy leaves about a week before flip. Then another whack at that about week 4. Light bulbs lack the strength of par that the sun does and I have found that removing some leaves helps plump up and give that nice finished color to more buds.

For all the people beating the snake oil drum... Who the fuck cares what other people grow with? You guys are now the weed fucking gods? Gods gift to canabis? Yeah. Many a newb gets sucked into this booster and that booster. Your money is much better spent on environmental controls, that much is assured but really...this notion that your all somehow better because of what you don't use.

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its true. im better because i understand NPK value over Bloom Boosters. I also understand that defoiliating a plant is the epitome of STUPIDITY. You are killling you plant for no reason. Keep your leaves green and dont touch your plants leaves if you want to grow quality weed. You will have bigger, more potent buds with the most and greenest foiliage as possible. You shouldnt even have yellow leaves to clip.

skunkd0c said:

so many get sucked in
i see folk growing just a few plants in pots, take pictures of their haul of magic potions in all the pretty bottles and packaging they come in
in some cases like 6-8 different bottles of stuff just for additives
looks like they gonna open their own hydro shop lol

often folk who over-complicate these things by using so many additives have average at best looking plants too

i do try to tell them to maybe try without all those additives, and they laugh like i am not aware of the special secret they know about
oh well , i wont force the issue i just move on

peace

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Or just realize it is just an annual...

Impman said:

its true. im better because i understand NPK value over Bloom Boosters. I also understand that defoiliating a plant is the epitome of STUPIDITY. You are killling you plant for no reason. Keep your leaves green and dont touch your plants leaves if you want to grow quality weed. You will have bigger, more potent buds with the most and greenest foiliage as possible. You shouldnt even have yellow leaves to clip.

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Yeah your right. NP and K are the only chemicals in a plant. There is nothing that you could possibly do to increase yields or quality. Never realized leaf area was an index of potency. So much to learn, oh please, teach me the error of my simpleton ways. You see, I'm new at this and only have 3 CFLs on a 8' plant

legallyflying said:

Yeah your right. NP and K are the only chemicals in a plant. There is nothing that you could possibly do to increase yields or quality. Never realized leaf area was an index of potency. So much to learn, oh please, teach me the error of my simpleton ways. You see, I'm new at this and only have 3 CFLs on a 8' plant

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good one lf

legallyflying said:

I remove probably 20% of upper canopy leaves about a week before flip. Then another whack at that about week 4. Light bulbs lack the strength of par that the sun does and I have found that removing some leaves helps plump up and give that nice finished color to more buds.

For all the people beating the snake oil drum... Who the fuck cares what other people grow with? You guys are now the weed fucking gods? Gods gift to canabis? Yeah. Many a newb gets sucked into this booster and that booster. Your money is much better spent on environmental controls, that much is assured but really...this notion that your all somehow better because of what you don't use.

Click to expand...

While I am not into defoliation you spoke the absolute truth. ALL THE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS CONTROLLED IS THE KEY. That what gives yield and potency that the genetics are there. Two way street. Can't bring out the awesome genetics if just one factor is out of what and if the code isnt in the genetics environment could be perfect and it will still be crap.

The biggest mistake I see many growers do is throw a 1000 in a space and it runs at 90F with no co2 and they cry about the yield is low. The Sun couldn't grow good weed if it gets too hot or too dry but these asshats think 1000 watts and they are gonna have the best weed. A well setup op with a 400 and all factors controlled will do better than a 1000 watt jammed in a hot difficult to control environ.

Now on the other hand it I feel is a good thing to share with out fellow growers that I can achieve good as some and better than most with simple fertilizers. I own 3 jugs of Dynagro, those being Foliage pro, Mag Pro and PRotekt. And a 5 lb tub of Jacks Acid Special for the high sulfur supplementation.

You already know my environments are totally controlled and sealed. That and the genetics have me beyond well supplied with better than anything I have ever smoked since I moved here.

what gets me is when these pompous AN etc fanboys raving about how great AN etc are with the high prices pretty labels and 30 bottles to get your plant to potential, but they know as much about plants as a 3 month old. If you like AN etc and it works for you great knock yourselves out its your $$$. Just dont come saying that since I use a simple inexpensive line of ferts of three bottles and a tub that mine is lackluster while your is the shi I mean because seriously they grow gret in simple shit. LOL
And lf I am in no way implying any of this to you. You grow your ass off.We have a couple a variances in our approach but hey isnt that why theres Ford and Chevy?

as a newb still myself, I did the run out and get nutes thing. I ordered grow big and big bloom. That's all I used last year except for maybe a drink or two of molasses.
this year I am investing in more lights and since I can't have Co2 in the house with my lung issues, I'lll be stocking up on seltzer water.

roseypeach said:

as a newb still myself, I did the run out and get nutes thing. I ordered grow big and big bloom. That's all I used last year except for maybe a drink or two of molasses.
this year I am investing in more lights and since I can't have Co2 in the house with my lung issues, I'lll be stocking up on seltzer water.

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co2 should be the last thing you need to add. A totally sealed room would solve your health issue.

I've found that removing leaves makes the 'bud leaves' bigger. I've checked it out for a few years now. Lollipopping like UB suggests works well it makes the tops waaaay fatter but removing fan leaves from high up encourages bush in your bud.
If you cut for bud, remove more that the leaves, remove the entire bud site that's not getting light, not the leaves that are, has worked out much better for me personally but I wouldn't call myself an 'advanced' grower at all.
If you're training a mommy it's nice to cut some leaves in order to purposefully get bigger leaves on the cuttings, on all my moms the fan leaves go as soon as there is side branching but that's only because I'm a retard and I keep too many moms, been teaching myself LST and I can already see it does the same job of giving me thicker branches for cloning without any cutting or stress.

legallyflying said:

I remove probably 20% of upper canopy leaves about a week before flip. Then another whack at that about week 4. Light bulbs lack the strength of par that the sun does and I have found that removing some leaves helps plump up and give that nice finished color to more buds.

For all the people beating the snake oil drum... Who the fuck cares what other people grow with? You guys are now the weed fucking gods? Gods gift to canabis? Yeah. Many a newb gets sucked into this booster and that booster. Your money is much better spent on environmental controls, that much is assured but really...this notion that your all somehow better because of what you don't use.

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I'll take your word for anything after what I've seen you do. RESTECP. I want to move to London and be your apprentice lol.

Kite High said:

The biggest mistake I see many growers do is throw a 1000 in a space and it runs at 90F with no co2 and they cry about the yield is low.

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But these go to eleven!

roseypeach said:

I'lll be stocking up on seltzer water.

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Why? Roots do not absorb CO2.

If you are able to get direct light to all the leaves on the plant, that would be the best solution
while the large fan leaves will supply energy all over the plant, the medium sized leaves growing from coals must get light also
each individual cola needs light on all of its leaves to maximize its potential , its no good just having light on the large fan leaves

if buds are left shaded inside the canopy the bud often grows looking bleached or light green
the texture of the leaves also changes and the calyx mature rapidly way too early these shaded buds do not reach the full potential

some kush and indica plants suffer from this, or other plants that do not extend thier colas above the canopy
a canopy of large fan leaves is not the best way to maximise yield in a given space
this is one reason why sativa hybrids will always out yiled indicas in the same space
as they are able to grow in a shape that allows bud to develop in colas over every branch of the plant

indicas often grow large bottom branches that extend upwards, they do this so they can poke themselves through the canopy
removing leaves from indiacs is not the answer, often it will cause distorted regrowth , it is very unlikey to improve yield
the best thing that can be done with these plants is to tie the branches out or bend them, no need to snap them
changing the angle of the branches allows light into the canopy so middle buds can green up and become larger than they would in the shade

when it comes to sativa hybrids, i have found seletivly removing some leaves aswell as bending branches helps to get light allover the plants
for me its is about trying to get as much cola to grow in a given space, i like to spread the bud over many branches rather than a few very large colas
as bud rot is a slight worry with very large colas

even on outdoor plants they could benefit from having branches tied down to the ground
when a plant grows in a shape that shades itself, i cant just leave it to be shaded, that would be a crime lol

peace

skunkd0c said:

If you are able to get direct light to all the leaves on the plant, that would be the best solution
while the large fan leaves will supply energy all over the plant, the medium sized leaves growing from coals must get light also
each individual cola needs light on all of its leaves to maximize its potential , its no good just having light on the large fan leaves

if buds are left shaded inside the canopy the bud often grows looking bleached or light green
the texture of the leaves also changes and the calyx mature rapidly way too early these shaded buds do not reach the full potential

some kush and indica plants suffer from this, or other plants that do not extend thier colas above the canopy
a canopy of large fan leaves is not the best way to maximise yield in a given space
this is one reason why sativa hybrids will always out yiled indicas in the same space
as they are able to grow in a shape that allows bud to develop in colas over every branch of the plant

indicas often grow large bottom branches that extend upwards, they do this so they can poke themselves through the canopy
removing leaves from indiacs is not the answer, often it will cause distorted regrowth , it is very unlikey to improve yield
the best thing that can be done with these plants is to tie the branches out or bend them, no need to snap them
changing the angle of the branches allows light into the canopy so middle buds can green up and become larger than they would in the shade

when it comes to sativa hybrids, i have found seletivly removing some leaves aswell as bending branches helps to get light allover the plants
for me its is about trying to get as much cola to grow in a given space, i like to spread the bud over many branches rather than a few very large colas
as bud rot is a slight worry with very large colas

even on outdoor plants they could benefit from having branches tied down to the ground
when a plant grows in a shape that shades itself, i cant just leave it to be shaded, that would be a crime lol

peace

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He's giving away his secrets, and I am about to reap the benefits, muahahahahahaha. Now I know how you're thinking I can see what you did by looking at your pics. Spectacular, really. Thanks for the info bro.

i like to think plants are logical, perhaps i am wrong

i would like to compare my plants to the model of a computer system, i do this perhaps because i know a lot more about computers than i do plants LOL
what i know about plants is very limited and mostly down to experience not book knowledge or formal qualifications, although i do a fair amount of reading

think of the large fan leaves as the hard drive, think of the medium sized leaves as the ram, think of the tiny bud leaves as cache

when the plant requires energy it would be logical for it to first call on the smaller leaves, they wlll offer less energy but the path is much quicker so they can supply energy much faster
this is the same principle as the CPU requesting information it will first check cache directly embedded in the cpu the cache is small but it is a much faster path
if the cache does not have the information required the CPU then queries Ram, and finally the Hard drive

if a plant grows with this logical model, it would be a good idea to supply light to all leaves and not just concentrate on the large leaves
or in fact remove any of them, if the leaves are healthy and are able to receive light they will contribute to the plant and be efficient
if an individual calyx requires energy it could get some of this energy immediately from the small bud leaves in very close proximity to it
or from the larger cola leaves, if the plant has these leaves shaded it would need to move energy much further from larger fan leaves
this model is not logical nor efficient
the only efficent logical way is to supply direct light to all leaves, no part of the green foliage should be left shaded

are plants logical ? do they take the quickest path to supply energy ?

peace

skunkd0c said:

i like to think plants are logical, perhaps i am wrong

i would like to compare my plants to the model of a computer system, i do this perhaps because i know a lot more about computers than i do plants LOL
what i know about plants is very limited and mostly down to experience not book knowledge or formal qualifications, although i do a fair amount of reading

think of the large fan leaves as the hard drive, think of the medium sized leaves as the ram, think of the tiny bud leaves as cache

when the plant requires energy it would be logical for it to first call on the smaller leaves, they wlll offer less energy but the path is much quicker so they can supply energy much faster
this is the same principle as the CPU requesting information it will first check cache directly embedded in the cpu the cache is small but it is a much faster path
if the cache does not have the information required the CPU then queries Ram, and finally the Hard drive

if a plant grows with this logical model, it would be a good idea to supply light to all leaves and not just concentrate on the large leaves
or in fact remove any of them, if the leaves are healthy and are able to receive light they will contribute to the plant and be efficient
if an individual calyx requires energy it could get some of this energy immediately from the small bud leaves in very close proximity to it
or from the larger cola leaves, if the plant has these leaves shaded it would need to move energy much further from larger fan leaves
this model is not logical nor efficient
the only efficent logical way is to supply direct light to all leaves, no part of the green foliage should be left shaded

are plants logical ? do they take the quickest path to supply energy ?

peace

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Well plants and computers mentioned in the same sentence along with ideas like predicting plant growth patterns and what governs them I can't help but mention this:

http://classes.yale.edu/fractals/

[video=youtube;yUM7e0tIFi0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUM7e0tIFi0[/video]

I have to concede to being a biology noob mate, as for computers and electronics , i went to school
still i am happy with my results, mostly genetic dependent for me, some plants i enjoy greatly
some are worthless to me, i try to grow what i think i will like, but sometimes the free seeds turn out better
than those i carefully selected and paid for lol

skunkd0c said:

I have to concede to being a biology noob mate, as for computers , i went to school

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That's what I dig about fractal geometry. It can describe the way things, organic things, behave, look, grow in simple mathematical formulae. Fascinating stuff, I've just started digging into it to help with insomnia, got immune to the reefer years ago...

nice vid m8 something i have thought myself from my own observations
the plant given the right conditions and genetics will form colas on every branch of roughly equal size although indicas can be stubborn

i see the plants as a collection of branches sharing a common root system
each branch could grow big enough and take the same shape as an individual plant grown smaller so each branch is in effect a plant in its own right but still obviously dependent on the same root system

when a plant is revenged a single shoot growing from a revegged/ rejuvenated bud can grow back into a plant bigger than the original
all the other shoots can be removed, each shoot could be a plant in the right conditions, this is a fractal nature

each branch will compete for light they will not work in harmony to share the light
each branch could be kept on a different photo period at the same time
the plant as a whole would remain healthy

this for me makes me view the plant not as a whole, but to break it down in to a collection of individual branches
treat each branch this way give them all equal light and the plant will yield more than only giving light to the top of the plant
but that's just obvious the better skilled folk outdoor even tie branches down to the ground from many years ago

many outdoor plants landrace indica left to grow naturally grow a huge cola up top and very little on the other branches
this is because of the shading pattern of growth these plants take naturally

sativas grow in a different shape because they are not shaded they can grow like a Christmas tree bottom branches do not need to elongate up to the central cola as they are getting plenty of light
it makes sense that these plants spread bud all over their frame rather than concentrating it at the tops of elongated branches

i like smoking indica but i think sativa is superior as a plant since it has managed to adapt itself to virtually every climate on earth, where indica only grows naturally in a few places
i think these plants more often need a helping hand to get the best out of them

Kite High said:

co2 should be the last thing you need to add. A totally sealed room would solve your health issue.

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I've used 1,000 watts, no C02 with good ventilation and always had high yields with excellent potency. I guess sealed is different. Only c02 I run is to pump the beer keg in my kegerator.