Do you believe in ghosts?

ClaytonBigsby said:

There is a reason "ghost detectives" are on tv. It is becuase so many people have had paranormal experiences and they want to help define and explain them. After nearly four decades of paranormal experiences you would never believe, and several as an investigator, I have zero doubt that there is something supernatural going on. Pad claims to "know" aliens exist without a single shred of proof, because, well, "it's mathematically impossible for them not to". You are a hypocrit. I would argue that mathematically it is impossible that there is no spriritual realm.

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Why do you feel the need to be so defensive and disingenuous? Either you didn't take the time to really read what Pad said, or you are purposely placing him in a bad light to lend credence to your position. Pad never claimed to 'know' aliens exist, he said he has good reason to believe it, but no proof. When a skeptic admits that a belief is taken on faith, they are axiomatically saying their belief could be wrong. You would like for Pad to be a hypocrite so that you can stop paying attention to his questions.

Since the beginning of man, most humans have believed in, and reported paranormal phenomena. I have video of doors opening and closing, light sturning on and off, by request, crazy spikes in EMF, and hundreds of intelligent, class A, EVPs. I have validated "ghosts" for others who have seen them in their homes and did not tell me, until I saw them and told them they had one. Before comparing notes, I always have us write them down at the same time. Nearly impossible that we would come up with the exact same thing.

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So you have a bunch of anomalies that can't be explained, you have labeled them ghosts, and now call it research. Science would call it making as many assumptions as needed to support your pet theory. It would be reasonable to generate a hypothesis as to what is causing the anomalous activity, but such hypotheses are only useful if they lead to testable predictions. First, however, research should endeavor to find a mundane explanation for the anomaly In fact before declaring it an anomaly they should thoroughly rule out any possible explanations. Only when that has been adequately done would they have a tentative anomaly, and anomalies by definition are unexplained. Ghost hunter do not use the scientific method, their approach is a method for generating positive apparently anomalous findings that can then be assumed to be a ghost phenomenon by eager ghost hunters. Ghost hunters simply do not understand scientific investigation, they do not understand the nature of scientific evidence nor the pitfalls of generating false positive results.

It IS a forum. A forum where people talk about ideas. Nobody here is writing a thesis for a scientific journal. If you were half as fucking intelligent as you try to act you would be asking how you can duplicate our experiences for yourself, instead of denying them because we will not out ourselves on a pot forum to make you happy.

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You are suggesting a false dilemma, which is, If Pad doesn't do these experiments, then he is not intelligent, and not in the position of criticizing them. This is again the opposite of how science works. The burden of proof falls to the party making the claim. Peer review is expected and mandatory. Asking questions is part of discourse, and discourse is the only way to weed out the truth.

Watch these ghost hunting shows and see if you notice anything different than this:

I heard a strange noise and I don't know the source. It's a ghost! There is an orb I can't explain in this picture. It's a ghost orb! There is a cold spot on this wall I can't explain. It's ghost cold! There is an artifact on this recording I can't explain, It's a ghost voice! There is an EM reading spike that I can't account for. It's ghost energy!


Each of these cases skips over any investigation and assumes the conclusion. Most of the time they do not even check to see if there actually is a cold spot or if their equipment might be malfunctioning or getting false readings, so not only are they anomaly hunting, they are doing it sloppily.

Science observes a phenomena, generates a hypotheses, and tests the hypotheses. Ghost hunters observe anomalies, label it phenomena, and skip testing to conclude ghosts.

Proponents of pseudoscience usually defend against these accusation in 3 ways. Rather than provide actual evidence, improve their methods, or refine their data, they instead offer the following avenues of special pleading:

1 Science is inadequate: Science is not capable of studying my phenomena. But of course if something interacts with reality in any way that can be directly or indirectly observed, science can study it.

2 Science is inside the box: Science rejects my belief because it's afraid of change, or of being wrong. But of course science thrives on new ideas, change, and being wrong. Acknowledging mistakes is the only way to correct them, and science makes these corrections even in cases where it means abandoning a big part of what we thought we knew.

3 There is a conspiracy to suppress my belief: Some shadowy organization is silencing all the data. But of course, the entire internet can still get said data and it's common knowledge.

In the case of ghosts it's usually the first two.

For the record, I love ghost stories, and I enjoy hearing about people's eerie experiences. I support true investigation of paranormal happenings. I would very much like to have answers about ghosts and the afterlife, which is all the more reason to not let pseudoscience get in the way.

Humans vs universe

Some people that cannot explain things chalk it up to ghosts, while some chalk to up to either miracles or demons, and others chalk the unexplained up to aliens. Some people chalk it up as simply unexplainable, but don't jump to conclusions. Fear of the unknown leads to irrationality.

I would love to study the ghost phenomenon, but the simple fact is you cannot. You cannot duplicate what people claim to experience. If you could, people would widely agree that ghosts existed.

Heisenberg comes in with the smack down. Respectful, yet thorough in his pwnage.

Heisenberg said:

Mistakes of logic, perception and memory are at the top of the list. All humans share these inherit pitfalls.

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Alright, so you spoke in the name of science. Now answer me this with your own merit.

Research the case of the rainman, there is many documentaries. It's an extremely outlandish claim (I think it's fucking retarded tbh) but it has multiple unrelated eye witnesses. Research all witnesses, many of whom are high ranking police officials.

"While nothing can prove that it was the spirit of his dead grandfather or some other sort of demonic possession, there were multiple eye witnesses (many of whom are high ranking police officials such as Officers Richard Wolbert and John Baujan who eventually became the chief of the Stroudsburg police department) that saw the same impossibly strange occurrences at different points in time. They also managed to all keep their stories very consistent in interviews that were done almost 20 years apart."


Now don't get it twisted, I'm not saying this is enough proof for me to believe this craziness, but I'm not going to deny this mysterious account of highly credible eye witnesses (who keep a straight story over 20 years) simply because the scientific community hasn't addressed it yet.

Most would assume that all these random ass people from different walks of life (police officers, restaurant owners, prison wardens) all came together and conspired to create a hoax. That's not cutting it..

meechz 024 said:

Alright, so you spoke in the name of science. Now answer me this with your own merit.

Research the case of the rainman, there is many documentaries. It's an extremely outlandish claim (I think it's fucking retarded tbh) but it has multiple unrelated eye witnesses. Research all witnesses, many of whom are high ranking police officials.

"While nothing can prove that it was the spirit of his dead grandfather or some other sort of demonic possession, there were multiple eye witnesses (many of whom are high ranking police officials such as Officers Richard Wolbert and John Baujan who eventually became the chief of the Stroudsburg police department) that saw the same impossibly strange occurrences at different points in time. They also managed to all keep their stories very consistent in interviews that were done almost 20 years apart."


Now don't get it twisted, I'm not saying this is enough proof for me to believe this craziness, but I'm not going to deny this mysterious account of highly credible eye witnesses who keep a straight story over 20 years, because the scientific community hasn't addressed it yet.

Most would assume that all these random ass people from different walks of life (police officers, restaurant owners, prison wardens) all came together and conspired to create a hoax. That's not cutting it..

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Unexplained phenomenon = ghosts/demons/possessions is also not cutting it. Not for me.

So that leaves a grey area..... with that case at least. Unless you have a better explanation besides an extremely unlikely hoax?

meechz 024 said:

So that leaves a grey area..... with that case at least. Unless you have a better explanation besides an extremely unlikely hoax?

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I think grey area will suffice. But a hoax isn't out of the question. Don't know what it would accomplish though.

I'm sorry guys I know this is completely off topic of the thread but well every time I see this thread I think about this...

[youtube]eaqRwFyoGgQ[/youtube]

Actually you know what I'm not sorry now that I listen to this song I love it haha.

Heisenberg said:

If ghosts did exist and were detectable, you can bet that there would be huge industries behind it. I can't think of anything that would attract more venture capital dollars from Silicon Valley. However, no rigorous research has ever shown that ghosts can be reliably detected with hardware. It's easy to disbelieve me, but it's much harder to disbelieve the lack of interest from greedy corporate America.

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That whole post was one of the best I've seen in a while. But I took this little nugget to counter that argument. This statement would lend credibility to a God if you were to hold that position.

Corporate America doesn't care if it's real. If enough people want it, they will be more than happy to give it to you. For a small fee.

And on your part about our energy and how it would dissipate upon death, what are your thoughts on the possibility of that energy transferring itself to another animate object, or inanimate, especially if you lean to the "all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration" thought?

puffdatchronic said:

Then theres the more concrete stuff.Such as the bathroom sink filling up with water

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That is simply pressure building up inside the tap that turns it on, fairly common don't worry about that, mine does it from time to time.

A good trusted friend of mine lived in a haunted house, lots of paranormal things happened and he says he seen a ghost at the top of the stairs and he said it was looked more of a hologram than a 3-D image of a man and it even turned and looked at him then vanished...now that would fuck me up

Just as i suspected.Some guys had to jump in and start saying they want proof or it doesn't happen.

The real answer you are looking for is you don't know if they exist ,i don't know if they exist.But ,based on the weird stuff thats been happening to me ,i'm starting to open my mind.

What is the meaning of life?

How big is the universe really?

How small is the smallest atom and how does it just begin existing from nothing?

How did the universe form from nothing?

All questions i believe man will never know.Some stuff in life you just can't prove.Doesn't mean it doesnt exist though

So is it possible for a persons energy to remain floating around as a ghost.. who knows for sure.Hey maybe when we die ,we'll all get up to the pearly gates of heaven and the guys who wanted pics or it didnt happen will be politely turned away..

ClaytonBigsby said:

There is a reason "ghost detectives" are on tv. It is because so many people have had paranormal experiences and they want to help define and explain them. After nearly four decades of paranormal experiences you would never believe, and several as an investigator, I have zero doubt that there is something supernatural going on. Pad claims to "know" aliens exist without a single shred of proof,because, well, "it's mathematically impossible for them not to". Youare a hypocrit. I would argue that mathematically it is impossible that thereis no spriritual realm. Since the beginning of man, most humans have believedin, and reported paranormal phenomena. I have video of doors opening andclosing, light sturning on and off, by request, crazy spikes in EMF, andhundreds of intelligent, class A, EVPs. I have validated "ghosts" forothers who have seen them in their homes and did not tell me, until I saw themand told them they had one. Before comparing notes, I always have us write themdown at the same time. Nearly impossible that we would come up with the exactsame thing.

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ClaytonBigsby said:

Padawanbater2 said:

"Ghost detectives"are on TV because networks know millions of people will watch them becausemillions of people, just like you, believe in ghosts. You know what I've neverseen on one of those "ghost detective" shows? ... a ghost.

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Padawanbater2 said:

You spent 4 decades doing this, I'd say that's prettyengaged, so why would you all of a sudden admit 40 years of work was fornothing, even if that was the truth? Your attitude towards skeptics acceptingthe existence of ghosts is pretty unusual to say the least. I mean, I acceptthe theory of evolution but I don't get pissy and aggressive towards people whodon't, I just think they're misguided, misinformed, or ignorant of the facts.

I have never said I know aliens exist. I said I believealiens exist based on mathematical odds and what I understand about life onEarth. You must have misunderstood.

Again, video evidence, pictures, audio recordings, even EMFreadings are not evidence of ghosts, all can be altered/manipulated, have youseen Paranormal Activity? Is that evidence of ghosts? EMF's pick upelectromagnetic fields, yet no proponent of ghosts in this thread or anywherehas explained why/how a ghost would emit an electromagnetic field. Again, notvalid evidence. Someone told you somewhere one time they do so now peoplebelieve they do. Doesn't make much sense to me.


I've asked multiple people multiple times how something likethis could be recreated, each and every time it's met with hostility. You canwitness that for yourself in this thread when I asked for a few facts aboutthat guys experience, automatically people suspected malicious intent, weirdright?... right.

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This is why I do not like you. You put words in people's mouths. You do the very things you acuse others of, in a superior tone.

I do not watch many of the "ghost detective" shows because some of the "detectives" are ridiculous, others are just annoying. It is tv, and without being there, I cannot validate the authenticity of the evidence. I have, however (unlike you), done investigations on my own, with similar results, so I have to believe that some of their results are real too. You do not believe in ghosts. You wouldn't if an apparition appeared before you. For you to say, YOU have never seen a ghost on those shows, like that makes it all untrue is just absurd.

To clarify, I have had paranormal experiences for four decades; I have done my own professional investigations for two years. When did I "all of a sudden admit 40 years of work was for nothing"???? My "attitude towards skeptics accepting the existence of ghosts is pretty unusual to say the least"? Iam a skeptic, that is what makes my experiences and evidence that much more valid. I have no problem with skeptics, I have a problem with fucking idiots, who NEVER try anything for themselves,and demand that someone post a newspaper clipping linking them to their account on a pot forum. There are skeptics, and there are idiots who argue the same petty rhetoric over and over and over without doing anything for themselves, and DEMANDING that others "prove" something to them. Who do you think you are, that some stranger on a pot forum has to prove something to you? If you don't like what they are saying, shut the fuck up, especially when you refuse to do anything other than regurgitate the same minimal arguments. You say you "accept the theory of evolution but I don't get all pissy and aggressive towards people who don't....", but you do. Demanding that they provide you with any proof is aggressive, and demonstrates that you do get pissy with those who do not believe what you do. You claim they are "misguided, misinformed, or ignorant of the facts"; what an elitist ignorant statement, when you cannot prove ghosts are not real, and have no interest in even trying to find out for yourself. To me, your "Prove it to me" attitude, makes you the most lazy, ignorant, misguided, and misinformed, "Scientist" of all.

How do you "believe aliens exist", with NO proof, yet you cannot comprehend that there may be ghosts, when the sheer number of accounts and evidence rivals the idea that the sheer number of galaxies would make the exisitence of aliens seem plausible?

So, in other words, it's OK for YOU to believe something with NO proof, but not others, even though, they have substantially more evidence to prove their assertions. What a hypocrit.


"Have you seen Paranormal Activity"???? It's a movie, and deserves no mention. "EMF's pick up electromagnetic fields, yet no proponent of ghosts in this thread or anywhere has explained why/how a ghost would emit an electromagnetic field. Again, not valid evidence. Someone told you somewhere one time they do so now people believe they do. Doesn't make much sense to me."

Because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't make it not so.You have your beliefs, and nothing is going to change your mind, so talking with you is worthless. THAT is my point. For you to state as fact that someone somewhere told me something and I just believed it, as about as stupid a post as I have seen here.

"I've asked multiple people multiple times how something like this could be recreated, each and every time it's met with hostility. You can witness that for yourself in this thread when I asked for a few facts about that guys experience, automatically people suspected malicious intent, weird right?... right."

I have never seen you ask anyone how something can be recreated, and have, on numerous occasions, pointed out that that is what you should be asking, instead of asking for newspaper clippings to prove what someone is saying, and outing themselves in a pot forum. You are met with hostility because you come accross as a know-it-all, when you have zero to offer. Weird, right?.....right.

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Heisenberg said:

Why do you feel the need to be so defensive and disingenuous? Either you didn't take the time to really read what Pad said, or you are Pad never claimed to 'know' aliens exist, he said he has good reason to believe it, but no proof. When a skeptic admits that a belief is taken on faith, they are axiomatically saying their belief could be wrong. You would like for Pad to be a hypocrite so that you can stop paying attention to his questions.

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I am not being defensive, or disingenuous. I could easily say the same of you. Pad is stating that he believes in “the existence of aliens” (with no proof), based solely on the mathematical probability that the sheer size of the universe must make it so, however, he argues that the existence of ghosts is ridiculous, even though the sheer volume of actual accounts and evidence make the existence of ghosts much more plausible mathematically. I have not seen that Pad is asking questions worthy of a response. Demanding that someone provide a newspaper clipping on a pot forum to prove their claim is ridiculous. Seems for him to say it is OK for him to believe in aliens with no proof, but you cannot believe in ghosts, is hypocritical, no?

Heisenberg said:

So you have a bunch of anomalies that can't be explained, you have labeled them ghosts, and now call it research. Science would call it making as many assumptions as needed to support your pet theory. It would be reasonable to generate a hypothesis as to what is causing the anomalous activity, but such hypotheses are only useful if they lead to testable predictions. First, however, research should endeavor to find a mundane explanation for the anomaly In fact before declaring it an anomaly they should thoroughly rule out any possible explanations. Only when that has been adequately done would they have a tentative anomaly, and anomalies by definition are unexplained. Ghost hunter do not use the scientific method, their approach is a method for generating positive apparently anomalous findings that can then be assumed to be a ghost phenomenon by eager ghosthunters. Ghost hunters simply do not understand scientific investigation, they do not understand the nature of scientific evidence nor the pitfalls of generating false positive results.

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So, you are stating as fact, that I” have anomalies that cannot be explained, labeled them ghosts, and call it research”. You know nothing about me, or my research techniques and findings. But, don’t let that stop you from “purposely placing (me) in a bad light to lend credence to your position.” I would say THAT is “making as many assumptions as needed to support your pet theory”. Hypocritical, no?

Ghosts are an observable phenomena, but they are not usually observable on command. That does not make them non-existent. There are many videos and recordings of people getting ghosts (or something) to do things in our realm, be it turning a light on and off, opening a door, knocking, or saying something. There is a ridiculous amount of evidence to support the assertion that there are ghosts, but you will not acknowledge them because they cannot (yet) be proven by scientific method. Just seems so unenlightened. Look at all of the scientific “truths” that have been proven wrong. String theory is very interesting, and may some day be validated. Before Einstein, what were our scientific “truths”that people like you would claim as right and declare anyone who thought outside that box, “misguided, misinformed, and ignorant of the facts”?

“I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.”
Isaac Newton

“Italy valued cathedrals while Spain valued explorers. So worldwide, five times as many people speak Spanish than Italian” NeilDeGrasse Tyson You think you are so smart, but you are stuck in the basic rut of “prove it” through scientific method. Be a pioneer, man.

“Just an FYI: If scientists invented the legal system, eye witness testimony would be inadmissible evidence.” Neil DeGrasse Tyson

“Not enough people do things that leave others to wonder.” Neil deGrasse Tyson If every scientist, was like you, we would have no advancement. “You prove it”, “No!, you prove it”, “No!, YOU prove it!” Do your own GD research and quit regurgitating scientific method as “proof” that you are right. What ARE you doing to actually advance your understanding?

Heisenberg said:

You are suggesting a false dilemma, which is, If Pad doesn't do these experiments, then he is not intelligent, and not in the position of criticizing them. This is again the opposite of how science works. The burden of proof falls to the party making the claim. Peer review is expected and mandatory. Asking questions is part of discourse, and discourse is the only way to weed out the truth.

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I do not believe I have suggested a false dilemma a tall. What I have suggested is that he do some research of his own if he is so curious about it. If he was not curious, I don’t think he would make posts about it, or seek out posts about it, then ridicule people for their personal accounts. I know how science works. I prefer to actually do some research to advance my understanding, than to sit behind a keyboard demanding others to prove things to me. THAT does not seem vey intelligent. You claim there are no ghosts, yet you feel no burden to prove your claim.

"I have no problem with skeptics, I have a problem with fucking idiots, who NEVER try anything for themselves,and demand that someone post a newspaper clipping linking them to their account on a pot forum."

Agree 100%. When someone is doing this, you know that they are not sincere in getting to the bottom of the debate, they just want to prove somebody wrong.....and show everybody how amazing their logic deciphering skills are. I'm a skeptic, I question this paranormal stuff and there is things you cannot ignore and call "hoax" it's just as illogical. Just keep it at a grey area, it's phenomena. All your little scientific rationalizations don't cut it for the bigger picture.

ClaytonBigsby said:

This is why I do not like you. You put words in people's mouths. You do the very things you acuse others of, in a superior tone.

I do not watch many of the "ghost detective" shows because some of the "detectives" are ridiculous, others are just annoying. It is tv, and without being there, I cannot validate the authenticity of the evidence. I have, however (unlike you), done investigations on my own, with similar results, so I have to believe that some of their results are real too. You do not believe in ghosts. You wouldn't if an apparition appeared before you. For you to say, YOU have never seen a ghost on those shows, like that makes it all untrue is just absurd.

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I believe it's clear your understanding of science and the scientific method is flawed, you make a few pretty common errors throughout this post and your post to Heis, I'll highlight them as I go along

How have you conducted your experiments?

What were your results?

ClaytonBigsby said:

To clarify, I have had paranormal experiences for four decades; I have done my own professional investigations for two years. When did I "all of a sudden admit 40 years of work was for nothing"???? My "attitude towards skeptics accepting the existence of ghosts is pretty unusual to say the least"? Iam a skeptic, that is what makes my experiences and evidence that much more valid. I have no problem with skeptics, I have a problem with fucking idiots, who NEVER try anything for themselves,and demand that someone post a newspaper clipping linking them to their account on a pot forum. There are skeptics, and there are idiots who argue the same petty rhetoric over and over and over without doing anything for themselves, and DEMANDING that others "prove" something to them. Who do you think you are, that some stranger on a pot forum has to prove something to you? If you don't like what they are saying, shut the fuck up, especially when you refuse to do anything other than regurgitate the same minimal arguments. You say you "accept the theory of evolution but I don't get all pissy and aggressive towards people who don't....", but you do. Demanding that they provide you with any proof is aggressive, and demonstrates that you do get pissy with those who do not believe what you do. You claim they are "misguided, misinformed, or ignorant of the facts"; what an elitist ignorant statement, when you cannot prove ghosts are not real, and have no interest in even trying to find out for yourself. To me, your "Prove it to me" attitude, makes you the most lazy, ignorant, misguided, and misinformed, "Scientist" of all.

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I said it would be tough for someone who spent 40 years investigating paranormal activity, they likely wouldn't just all of a sudden admit it's all pseudoscience

You being a skeptic has nothing to do with the validity of a theory. The evidence does.

I didn't "demand" anything, I asked for a couple facts to see if I could find the story he was referencing to verify his claim. This is basic procedure, how am I supposed to know if it's true if there is nothing but the claim? Furthermore, why would it be wrong to ask, or seen as a "demand"?

The same minimal arguments you still haven't answered for. That's not how it works, it doesn't matter if you wait a few days then go back to it, the claim will still need to be verified.

This is one of those statements that highlight your flawed understanding of science. In science, observation leads to evidence, and evidence leads to proof, in order to be validated, theories must also provide the required evidence, which includes peer review, again, completely standard procedure. It would be absurd to simply do as you suggest and accept any theory without asking for proof of it. The claim is "ghosts are real", it is up to the person making the claim to provide evidence that they are real, and that's the part this theory falls flat, because there is no evidence, there is only personal experiences, which we know we can't rely on because they're subjective, and eyewitness accounts, which we know we can't rely on because our senses can be easily tricked. This is why magic acts work, yet nobody believes people are actually getting cut in half.

Again, highlighted in red, it is not my responsibility to prove ghosts are not real. I can't prove a negative. It's the person making the claim to provide the evidence of that claim.

http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2008/04/06/a-fire-breathing-dragon-lives-in-my-garage-sagan/

Read that for a better understanding

Unfortunately for pseudo scientific claims, proof is required in science

ClaytonBigsby said:

How do you "believe aliens exist", with NO proof, yet you cannot comprehend that there may be ghosts, when the sheer number of accounts and evidence rivals the idea that the sheer number of galaxies would make the exisitence of aliens seem plausible?

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I believe aliens exist because there is a high mathematical probability they do and because of what I understand about life on Earth. The number of accounts is irrelevant, as I said, personal experiences are not proof of ghosts, they're proof people believed they were ghosts, important distinction. People believe they experience things all the time, having the experience itself isn't evidence it's true

ClaytonBigsby said:

So, in other words, it's OK for YOU to believe something with NO proof, but not others, even though, they have substantially more evidence to prove their assertions. What a hypocrit.

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There is strong evidence to support the idea that aliens exist. There is no evidence to support the idea that ghosts exist. If you find that to be hypocritical I would suggest you look up the definition of hypocritical.

ClaytonBigsby said:

"Have you seen Paranormal Activity"???? It's a movie, and deserves no mention.

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Exactly, so why would you assume any video footage of what someone might assume to be a ghost would actually be a ghost?

ClaytonBigsby said:

Because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't make it not so.You have your beliefs, and nothing is going to change your mind, so talking with you is worthless. THAT is my point. For you to state as fact that someone somewhere told me something and I just believed it, as about as stupid a post as I have seen here.

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I'm completely open to new information that could change what I believe. Why would I want to believe something that isn't true? What benefit would that have on my life?

I said someone somewhere told you something and now people believe it. What about the claim? Why would a ghost emit an electromagnetic field and how can you determine the source of it if the only evidence you have is the reading itself?

"I've asked multiple people multiple times how something like this could be recreated, each and every time it's met with hostility. You can witness that for yourself in this thread when I asked for a few facts about that guys experience, automatically people suspected malicious intent, weird right?... right."

ClaytonBigsby said:

I have never seen you ask anyone how something can be recreated, and have, on numerous occasions, pointed out that that is what you should be asking, instead of asking for newspaper clippings to prove what someone is saying, and outing themselves in a pot forum. You are met with hostility because you come accross as a know-it-all, when you have zero to offer. Weird, right?.....right.

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Again, for you to be defensive about requiring claims be verified before people accept them is simply wrong. I didn't ask for anything that would reveal any personal information.

Ask ChiefWalkingEagle how extensive we attempted to verify claims

ClaytonBigsby said:

You are aware that when one loses a sense, the others become much more acute? Nearly everyone acknowledges a “sixth sense”. Although it cannot be measured in scientific terms, it is widely accepted. Why can’t some people have a better sixth sense than others? In most of my investigations, it was the woman who complained about the activity. Even in the face of all of the evidence that made them call me, the man usually refused to accept it, until there was video or audio proof. If you believe in Darwinism, and I believe you do, surely you believe that women have evolved their sixth sense for protection much faster than men. Gavin Debecker, a world leader in security, wrote a book called “The Gift of Fear” on the subject. I recommend it for all women.

Do you truly believe that everyone calling themself a psychic, is a fake? Why do you think police departments hire them? Police departments use them because they help solve crimes. They help solve crimes because they have an ability to get information nobody else can obtain. Are their methods provable scientifically? No. Are they proven to work? Yes.

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I'm completely aware! I saw that movie, too! Ben Affleck was pretty good in it..

lol.... ghosts/spirits.. like, I still don't know who invented those!

clayman187 said:

well granny its really hard to read anyone unless they are with me in person. Sometimes when I have trouble reading someone a simply touch on the shoulder anyways makes things much clearer. but tell me if Im wrong..you have a couple kids,( your oldest is a girl and there is a bit maybe 6/8 yr gap between them? (maybe grand kids) did or are you raising 1 at the momment? I could be totally wrong cause I have not ever tried to read anyone on the web
As for the article in the paper from my 1st exp. I wouldnt know..I was 16 a hugh pot/lsd/shrooms head at the time. so the paper and new was the last thing on my mind.

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I appreciate that doing a reading or me when we have never meant would be difficult and I appreciate that you tried. I have three children the oldest is indeed a girl, their is a four year gap between the three of them 31 27 23 I have got two grandchildren but they are being raised by their mother not me, I couldn't cope with that lol.