DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

dingleberryjim

Active Member
I am using the Kelp4Less mycos
(Product contains beneficial endo mycorrihal fungi, beneficial ecto mycorrhizal fungi, two (2) trichoderma species and 19 species of beneficial bacteria.), that and raw sugar.

Is 24-30 hrs good enough, I feel desperate to get going here as I am 2/3 through flowering, and have buds like week 2-3 sized.

I need to get these roots going so my buds can try to grow a lil b4 its too late!!

Temps are in the 70s right now...last time I checked 73* in my tea bucket...and it has foam this time, where last time it never made any foam.
Hey bassman999!
Kelp4less sounds like it will work. It has 2/3 ingredients, but should work for now. If you can, order some EWC (earthworm castings) and add that to the mix. Ancient Forest Humus is supposed to be the BEST, yet I couldn't find it locally so I purchased Big Worm EWC.
If you can wait the 24-30 hours, you will be better off waiting for the whole 48 as the microbes have a better chance of developing. The more time they have to develop (up to a certain point) the better, as the colonization of fungi and bacteria will be so diverse as to not let any one species overgrow the rest. So try to wait the whole 48 hours :)

I'm glad that your brew is foaming! Did you make the syrup as I suggested? Raw sugar will work, but it will be more food for bacteria than fungus (but that is not to say that the fungus won't grow). Using Unsulphured Black Strap Molasses is a 50/50 food for bacteria and fungus, meaning both organisms can benefit (roughly) equally.

Just be patient. After administering the tea, you will notice that the roots will be brownish, and gunk will stick to them. Just wait it out, and the bennes will do all the work :)

Happy Growin!

-dbj
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
Hey bassman999!
Kelp4less sounds like it will work. It has 2/3 ingredients, but should work for now. If you can, order some EWC (earthworm castings) and add that to the mix. Ancient Forest Humus is supposed to be the BEST, yet I couldn't find it locally so I purchased Big Worm EWC.
If you can wait the 24-30 hours, you will be better off waiting for the whole 48 as the microbes have a better chance of developing. The more time they have to develop (up to a certain point) the better, as the colonization of fungi and bacteria will be so diverse as to not let any one species overgrow the rest. So try to wait the whole 48 hours :)

I'm glad that your brew is foaming! Did you make the syrup as I suggested? Raw sugar will work, but it will be more food for bacteria than fungus (but that is not to say that the fungus won't grow). Using Unsulphured Black Strap Molasses is a 50/50 food for bacteria and fungus, meaning both organisms can benefit (roughly) equally.

Just be patient. After administering the tea, you will notice that the roots will be brownish, and gunk will stick to them. Just wait it out, and the bennes will do all the work :)

Happy Growin!

-dbj
I have ewc, but dont have any pantyhose so I didnt implement them this time

I did dissolve the sugar, it has like white and brown mixed I guess...so I figured same as molasses or maybe close.
Ill go buy more Black strap next shopping trip.

Do you think there is any chance the buds have time left to swell if the roots get going again?
 

Spanky84

Active Member
I thing Heisenberg wrote somewhere that he uses res temps highter then 70 in his res with bennies, but I can't find it now. Can anyone here remember anything about that?
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
I thing Heisenberg wrote somewhere that he uses res temps highter then 70 in his res with bennies, but I can't find it now. Can anyone here remember anything about that?
I keep adding warm water when it gets below 70, but daytime stays above on its own..
My last and 1st try had 60* and lower temps and roted my res and plants as the sugars didnt get eaten with the low temps.
I gotta learn everything the hard way!
 

Spanky84

Active Member
Thanx, I keep my brew temps at about 23-25 C (73 to 75 F)

But I was wondering about res temperatures, not brew temperatures.
 

dingleberryjim

Active Member
I have ewc, but dont have any pantyhose so I didnt implement them this time

I did dissolve the sugar, it has like white and brown mixed I guess...so I figured same as molasses or maybe close.
Ill go buy more Black strap next shopping trip.

Do you think there is any chance the buds have time left to swell if the roots get going again?
Hey bassman999!
I noticed root growth OVERNIGHT after I applied the tea to my reservoirs through my net pots. I would imagine that if you have a few weeks left in flower, you should see some growth.
About your questions on res temps, you don't need a res chiller at all :)
Optimal reservoir temps should be between 70-75 for the microbes to be fully kickin.
So, to have the brew temps be 70-75 is perfect, and would be for your reservoir as well.
Just make sure you have plenty of oxygen. Good rule of thumb is 2gph air pump per gallon of water to be aerated. I use an EcoAir 8, which has 8 ports for e separate lines. I have two reservoirs with 14 gallons of nutrient solution in each, and two air stones, each with two lines ran to them. 25Lpm air=1500Lph/3.78541 (L per gallon)=396 gallons per hour! Rule of thumb is 2gph per gallon of water, and that is 28 gallons x 2 (optimal air ratio)=56 gallons per hour of air. 396/56=7.07! Seven times the needed amount, and my plants are KICKIN. But it wouldn't mean jack if I didn't add the EWC tea.

And the root stimulants :)

I hope this helps.
Happy Growin!

-dbj
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
Hey bassman999!
I noticed root growth OVERNIGHT after I applied the tea to my reservoirs through my net pots. I would imagine that if you have a few weeks left in flower, you should see some growth.
About your questions on res temps, you don't need a res chiller at all :)
Optimal reservoir temps should be between 70-75 for the microbes to be fully kickin.
So, to have the brew temps be 70-75 is perfect, and would be for your reservoir as well.
Just make sure you have plenty of oxygen. Good rule of thumb is 2gph air pump per gallon of water to be aerated. I use an EcoAir 8, which has 8 ports for e separate lines. I have two reservoirs with 14 gallons of nutrient solution in each, and two air stones, each with two lines ran to them. 25Lpm air=1500Lph/3.78541 (L per gallon)=396 gallons per hour! Rule of thumb is 2gph per gallon of water, and that is 28 gallons x 2 (optimal air ratio)=56 gallons per hour of air. 396/56=7.07! Seven times the needed amount, and my plants are KICKIN. But it wouldn't mean jack if I didn't add the EWC tea.

And the root stimulants :)

I hope this helps.
Happy Growin!

-dbj
I have an Active Auqa 20 watt with 8 lines.
I have 3 lines running.
Do you get more output from all 8 at once, or does it just get the same but diverted to used ones??

I dont have any foam anymore in my brewing tea for some reason?

I think my res would be 80* without chiller, not even summer yet, but got 86* in garage y-day
 

dingleberryjim

Active Member
I have an Active Auqa 20 watt with 8 lines.
I have 3 lines running.
Do you get more output from all 8 at once, or does it just get the same but diverted to used ones??

I dont have any foam anymore in my brewing tea for some reason?

I think my res would be 80* without chiller, not even summer yet, but got 86* in garage y-day
Hey bassman!
When you say you have 8 lines, with 3 running, do you have the other 5 outlets plugged off? If I recall correctly, aren't you running ebb n grow?
If you can afford it, I would check out Reflectix double sided insulation (its like bubblewrap, but like 96% reflective). I found that my DWC (I know its not dwc) reservoirs were getting in the mid 70's (before I used the EWC brew), and then I wrapped the reservoirs in reflectix and threw a 2L bottle (filled 80% with water and marbles in the bottom of the bottle to weigh it down and not float) at 6:10am. After about two hours, the bottles were melted. I removed them, and the temps rose to about 68 (in a room that was 76*) from 62 in 18 hours.
My brew stopped foaming at about 30 hours, and the foam dried to the sides of my bucket. If your temps were right (70-75) while brewing, and you gave them 2Gph of air per gallon of brew, and all equipment was sterilized prior to brewing, and you gave the microbes enough food and brew time you should be good.
My concern with using beneficial microbes in the Ebb and Flow setup is that the roots will not be suspended in water. The fungus grows on and into the rootmass, wedging itself between cells, and I would be concerned that the bacteria that would be left on the roots, as well as the fungus, would dry out if allowed.
Since I started using the beneficial brew, my res temps are from 70-74 degrees with two airstones in the reservoirs.
I have an EcoPlus Eco Air 8 with 8 outlets, pumping out 25Lpm. I take two strips of tubing, cut at 2 inches each, and connect them to a T fitting and use two outlets for one stone. It increases the air output to each stone a bit, and creates a bit of a bottleneck. BUT, I figured that it wouldn't be as much backpressure as if I had 4 blocked off with 4 running an airstone a piece.
NOW, in your Ebb n Grow setup, if I understand correctly, the roots get oxygenated from the air in the absence of the nutrient solution, and the nutrient solution gets oxygenated in the reservoir prior to flooding the buckets.
Since you have just the one reservoir, and you are trying to use beneficial aerobic microbes, I would pick up another airstone and do the T configurations for two outlets per stone, or get 5 more stones for one line a piece. The more air in that res, the better. You could even fill a bottle full of rocks, cap it off, cut more air hose long enough to reach the bottom of the res utilizing every outlet, tie those hoses to the weighted bottle and let it sink to the bottom. Air stones just break up the air being put into the water, maximizing surface area. I have seen people put air hose into the res without stones, achieving great results. BUT, airstones are better IMO. Some people say that waterfalls and powerheads do a better job. I have never personally tried them.

I know the hype about DWC drowing in a power outage, and other root problems. If I had started my grow with the EWC tea, I would have so much more growth as I was set back over 2 weeks with algae problems. Despite this headache, my Qrazy train is kickin hard, and my Blue Dream is just chuggin along.

I'll do a little more poking around to read up as much as I can on Ebb n Flow with beneficial tea.

Happy Growin!

-dbj
 

Guido85

New Member
Amazing thread so much information. "Ive been slimed" I'm on the fence on scratching the harvest (betwen weens 3-4 of veg) taking clones from these and starting fresh. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-N900P using Rollitup mobile app
 

Spanky84

Active Member
Amazing thread so much information. "Ive been slimed" I'm on the fence on scratching the harvest (betwen weens 3-4 of veg) taking clones from these and starting fresh. Thoughts?

Sent from my SM-N900P using Rollitup mobile app
Go with the protocol, Wash off with water, let it soak in H2O2 overnight, wash again, pour freshly brewed tea over the roots (leting the residue fall in a bucket you'll be using), fill the bucket wth fresh RO water, let it bubble like that for a day, start adding nutes, add more tea every three days. Repeat that for a week and thank mr. Heisenberg if you have slime no more.
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
Ok so it has been 48 hrs, and there still isnt any foam like there was for 1st 6 hrs?!?

I have a flat air disk in there and it is all slimy for some reason, maybe they like the air source lol?
I didnt use a net or pantyhose as I dont have any.
I dont know if thats a problem.
Also night time temps drop below 70...like 68
I added more sugar last night to see if that got more foam going.
I guess I should wait to add it to pots now with the sugar in there?
Hey bassman!
When you say you have 8 lines, with 3 running, do you have the other 5 outlets plugged off? If I recall correctly, aren't you running ebb n grow?
If you can afford it, I would check out Reflectix double sided insulation (its like bubblewrap, but like 96% reflective). I found that my DWC (I know its not dwc) reservoirs were getting in the mid 70's (before I used the EWC brew), and then I wrapped the reservoirs in reflectix and threw a 2L bottle (filled 80% with water and marbles in the bottom of the bottle to weigh it down and not float) at 6:10am. After about two hours, the bottles were melted. I removed them, and the temps rose to about 68 (in a room that was 76*) from 62 in 18 hours.
My brew stopped foaming at about 30 hours, and the foam dried to the sides of my bucket. If your temps were right (70-75) while brewing, and you gave them 2Gph of air per gallon of brew, and all equipment was sterilized prior to brewing, and you gave the microbes enough food and brew time you should be good.
My concern with using beneficial microbes in the Ebb and Flow setup is that the roots will not be suspended in water. The fungus grows on and into the rootmass, wedging itself between cells, and I would be concerned that the bacteria that would be left on the roots, as well as the fungus, would dry out if allowed.
Since I started using the beneficial brew, my res temps are from 70-74 degrees with two airstones in the reservoirs.
I have an EcoPlus Eco Air 8 with 8 outlets, pumping out 25Lpm. I take two strips of tubing, cut at 2 inches each, and connect them to a T fitting and use two outlets for one stone. It increases the air output to each stone a bit, and creates a bit of a bottleneck. BUT, I figured that it wouldn't be as much backpressure as if I had 4 blocked off with 4 running an airstone a piece.
NOW, in your Ebb n Grow setup, if I understand correctly, the roots get oxygenated from the air in the absence of the nutrient solution, and the nutrient solution gets oxygenated in the reservoir prior to flooding the buckets.
Since you have just the one reservoir, and you are trying to use beneficial aerobic microbes, I would pick up another airstone and do the T configurations for two outlets per stone, or get 5 more stones for one line a piece. The more air in that res, the better. You could even fill a bottle full of rocks, cap it off, cut more air hose long enough to reach the bottom of the res utilizing every outlet, tie those hoses to the weighted bottle and let it sink to the bottom. Air stones just break up the air being put into the water, maximizing surface area. I have seen people put air hose into the res without stones, achieving great results. BUT, airstones are better IMO. Some people say that waterfalls and powerheads do a better job. I have never personally tried them.

I know the hype about DWC drowing in a power outage, and other root problems. If I had started my grow with the EWC tea, I would have so much more growth as I was set back over 2 weeks with algae problems. Despite this headache, my Qrazy train is kickin hard, and my Blue Dream is just chuggin along.

I'll do a little more poking around to read up as much as I can on Ebb n Flow with beneficial tea.

Happy Growin!

-dbj
Yeah other 5 are plugged, not to mention that I have a pump that pumps and waterfalls back in.
The hose is the output from the chiller, but I tuened chiller off after I added tea this morning.

I am going to staert more tea brewing , and get some pantyhose to add all the ingredients in this time.
Do all the ingredients go into the panty hose together?

My temps dipped below 70 each night, but I added hot water a few times to bump it back close to 75* when I noticed
 

Spanky84

Active Member
Bassman, don't add more sugar, you'll mess things up.

I don't suspend EWC in anything. I crumble it into small particles and let it float in the res and get foam regularely.

If your stones are slimy that means you have microorganisms doing their job in there. Perhaps your mixture just does not produce foam.
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
I thought I had read that snotty stuff was good.
I uesd a squirt bottle and sprayed it from the stone into the bucket stirred it up and poured over hydroton.
I am starting a new batch with EWC in the early am
 

dingleberryjim

Active Member
Ok so it has been 48 hrs, and there still isnt any foam like there was for 1st 6 hrs?!?

I have a flat air disk in there and it is all slimy for some reason, maybe they like the air source lol?
I didnt use a net or pantyhose as I dont have any.
I dont know if thats a problem.
Also night time temps drop below 70...like 68
I added more sugar last night to see if that got more foam going.
I guess I should wait to add it to pots now with the sugar in there?

Yeah other 5 are plugged, not to mention that I have a pump that pumps and waterfalls back in.
The hose is the output from the chiller, but I tuened chiller off after I added tea this morning.

I am going to staert more tea brewing , and get some pantyhose to add all the ingredients in this time.
Do all the ingredients go into the panty hose together?

My temps dipped below 70 each night, but I added hot water a few times to bump it back close to 75* when I noticed
Hey bassman999!
Some brews just won't foam after a point, but not to worry. Adding sugar into the tea will just extend your administration date. You don't want excess sugar to be in the reservoir, or you will feed the bad guys as well.
The temps dropping to 68 at night are not a bad thing, just don't let it dip to like <63 ish ( i have heard) and definitely don't let it drop below 60. Suspending the EWC is to prevent having to skim/filter out the particles that can gunk up pumps and such. Its more of a preference sort of thing.
When I put the brewed tea into my reservoirs, the roots get little chunks that float on the surface and the root hairs act as a screen and catch things.
When I suspend it in pantyhose (or a long sock will work) I put two tiny 1.5" airstones in the bottom of the sock with the EWC over the top of it. The bubbles push out the fungus and nematodes and bacteria into the water, mixing it all up. I also have two of hte 1.5" airstones in the bottom of the bucket to keep the rest of the brew kickin. Waterfalls supposedly work better than airstones (I do not see how breaking surface tension is better than adding air directly to the bottom of the res, letting it rise AND break surface tension) but if you turned off the res chiller, I would make sure that your reservoir has plenty of water.
I am not entirely sure on Ebb and Flow, but in DWC, when you have 50 gallons of reservoir to oxygenate, you need at LEAST 100Lpm of air. I am finding that out now. I have 28 gallons of nutrient solution to oxygenate, and I am running 25Lpm. Way underpowered. The ladies are growing, but I could see more explosive growth if I added more. I am planning on purchasing a way better commercial pump. Maybe 110-112 Lpm to beef up them ladies. Who knows...

Happy Growin!

-dbj
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
I dont fill my res up all the way since my pump seems a lil weak, but hopefully the waterfall effect is helping some
Starting a new batch of tea this morning and that can get applied Sunday
I have 45LPM active Aqua rated at 20 watts(loud).
I hate to go any louder than this one, and this makes plenty of heat, but have read the bigger ones are way noisier and produce yet more heat.
I live in a duplex, and want to be discrete, and this is already obnoxious in my garage.

Maybe there is a better way to get air??

I could use less water in the res honestly, but then it will heat more easier I suppose.

I also covered my opaque white plastic lid to my res with a black garbage bag, as I think light is getting in there and doing bad stuff as well
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
I think the H2O2 that was in the res killed all the bennies. Ill have to drain flush and start over.
It smells like a barn in there again now.
 

dingleberryjim

Active Member
Hey bassman!

Light getting into the res can do some nasty things :)
I highly suggest Reflectix double sided insulation wrap. Its the shizniz man. I have both of my DWC reservoirs wrapped in it, even covering the lid with a sheet. My room temp is 78. My res is 73 with no cooler. Perfect for my bennies.
If you had h2o2 in the reservoir, yes, it would kill off the bennies. Make sure your tea is ready by the time you want to flush. Inoculate immediately and add plenty of oxygen to your reservoir to keep down on the Anaerobic microbes. Oxygenating your reservoir might seem like it is redundant as the roots sit in the air and dry out, BUT, keeping your reservoir oxygenated will prevent problems, as well as help your roots along with an oxygen rich nutrient solution. And it will keep your beneficial microbes alive and well. Reservoirs can get stale after a while.
I have heard many things about how to quiet a noisy air pump, especially the larger makes. I would have to say that one of the easiest would be to make a way to suspend your larger pump in the air with heavy twine. Not too far off of the ground, mind you, less it fall and break. I am going to purchase a 110-112 Lpm air pump to oxygenate two 20 gallon DWC reservoirs with 14 gallons of nutrients each. I am currently underpowered in the air department lol.
If you are using tap water to fill, and if your tap water is chlorinated or has chloramine (chlorine bonded to ammonia) then you will need to neutralize it, pH it and mix nutrients one at a time (never together). Oxygenate the nute filled res for about an hour, THEN add your benny tea.

Happy Growin!

-dbj
 

10after420

New Member
i second using the reflectixs! it works really well! And also reflects light back up, my whole rdwc systems are covered in it. And my lines are insulated with foam pipe wrap, and it really helps. My chillers run a lot less. It is the shiznit as they say.
011.jpg
 
Top