DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Doer

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the response but I don't do and don't plan to do any nute changes. ive always just topped up with absolutely no problems. also alludes to why I want to just add the inoculated rocks to the buckets themselves and wanted to know how I go about keeping the bene's alive and well so that they can do their job on a constant basis . . . sigh, don't know whats going on with this, guess I have to type in notepad and cut/paste, cant understand why Its not letting me hit enter to line down, BRB
Well, the deal is, we want the Bens to die, because we don't want to feed them in circulation. If we do that we are feeding the slime much faster than the good stuff.

IMO, the plants are "pooping" in the water as well as taking up nutes. So, it is a hassle, but my best luck is with changing the poopy water frequently. You could play with a 10 day cycle and 1/2 pump every 5 days. But, I would have to recommend some early growth phase 1/2 pumping before your water uptakes gets high enough to just top off.

I'm increasing, and dropping things and adding new things slightly almost every week and like to start fresh. To make it more economical, I keep the res very low, 450 ppm max. And I foliar feed. Amazing. So, then I can afford the better grade nutes.
 

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
DSC04635.jpgDSC04636.jpg
Before rinse / After rinse

New clones that let sit too long in the cloner and roots were like 2 feet long so I just wrapped it up on the bottom of buckets about 10 days ago and now roots came out finally in the past few days. As they touch the water they start to get this same shit on them. I rinsed it off this morning and more is back. Each time it rinses clean.

Dirty medium? Res is 72F

This is the other clone I got going. Looking white until the water.
DSC04634.jpg
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Is that hydrotron? Is that GH Micro in there? Don't the roots pick up a little color from that?
 

ms2010

Member
This is a 50 gl. recirculating system for veg plants and just started new plants 8 days ago. They are just starting to drop roots. The system was started with
50gl RO water
Dyna Grow 100ml
Pro Tekt 20ml
Mag Pro 20ml
Aqua Shield 30ml
KLN 15ml
Tea 4 cups – tea is made per the first page instructions from Heisenberg recipe
Day 6 added 1 cup of tea and 30 Aqua Shield
Top feed at least once a day.
Water temp is 66 to 68. PH range is 5.9 to 6.0. Room temp is 73 to 77.
Noticed this brown stuff start growing on day 4. Should I be concerned or is this the tea growing good stuff? Thanks for your reply!
photo-1 (2).jpgphoto (2).jpg
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Not an expert at all. But, Hies was saying that until the roots form good crowns the Bens don't have a house to live in.

And when I make tea the airtsones will have some colonies because they are aerobic and love the air, is why it's there. :)

So, I put lava rocks, in a pump bag or you can get a wire basket maybe, and a little molasses in the brew up.

Put in the open top bag or basket for the Bens to live.

Everything else looks pretty clear for you. But, it's all about the roots. Is the slime on the roots? Or is the Bens just housing uptown on your stones?

The roots will tell you. Are the nice and white or do they slime out after being in the water?

And you might need more tea than that in 50 gals. I put in 2 gals a week in 20 gals....but I have lost so much to slime.

Again, the only thing I'm expert enough, to get paid for, is troubleshooting...So these are just the questions I ask myself.
 

ms2010

Member
Not an expert at all. But, Hies was saying that until the roots form good crowns the Bens don't have a house to live in.

And when I make tea the airtsones will have some colonies because they are aerobic and love the air, is why it's there. :)

So, I put lava rocks, in a pump bag or you can get a wire basket maybe, and a little molasses in the brew up.

Put in the open top bag or basket for the Bens to live.

Everything else looks pretty clear for you. But, it's all about the roots. Is the slime on the roots? Or is the Bens just housing uptown on your stones?

The roots will tell you. Are the nice and white or do they slime out after being in the water?

And you might need more tea than that in 50 gals. I put in 2 gals a week in 20 gals....but I have lost so much to slime.

Again, the only thing I'm expert enough, to get paid for, is troubleshooting...So these are just the questions I ask myself.
The roots are just starting to show out of the pot. What i'm seeing is very white and healthy. Thanks for the help!
 

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Is that hydrotron? Is that GH Micro in there? Don't the roots pick up a little color from that?
Im using Dynagro and yes that is hydroton, poorly rinsed hydroton at that.

I get the same with growstones. I think I just need to rinse them better.
 

Cheekshu

Member
Well, I don't know really, but according to the OP and others, the prime symptom of Slime is that it won't go away if gets too established. I've lost a full dozen set out, before this.

Good Luck!
Thanks Doer! I changed out all of the reservoirs and so far... great luck! The roots are still coated a bit, but with the Hygrozyme and Aquashield the new roots are looking super white and the dingy yellowish ones are becoming the minority. I'm super new to this, so I'm still not sure what the real culprit was, but it sure looked like "Mother" to me. Though it's likely most slime will look similar to a basic bacteria colony. The plants still look fabulous, would there be noticeable damage to the plants if I was losing them to Slime or some other bacteria? Or will they just one day be dead? They are growing strong, even the one that looks the worst in terms of root yellowing is growing like a champ.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Im using Dynagro and yes that is hydroton, poorly rinsed hydroton at that.

I get the same with growstones. I think I just need to rinse them better.
I switched, too. But, your nutes aren't colored? That's one reason I'm switching from GH.

Check the tips with a magnifying glass?
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Thanks Doer! I changed out all of the reservoirs and so far... great luck! The roots are still coated a bit, but with the Hygrozyme and Aquashield the new roots are looking super white and the dingy yellowish ones are becoming the minority. I'm super new to this, so I'm still not sure what the real culprit was, but it sure looked like "Mother" to me. Though it's likely most slime will look similar to a basic bacteria colony. The plants still look fabulous, would there be noticeable damage to the plants if I was losing them to Slime or some other bacteria? Or will they just one day be dead? They are growing strong, even the one that looks the worst in terms of root yellowing is growing like a champ.
When I was running prototype ideas last year, I got distract with the Mothers for several days at a time, once, all kinds of problems. But, the Flowers seemed fine, except I noticed they had stopped growing, so about a week I guess. (was trying this plastic sheet idea, never mind)

When I checked the roots, instead of white mass, it was a sick, dark, brown mass. And it just pulled off like cobweb. <eww>

And, the plants were about 45 days, well budded. I cleaned it up reset the water to growing roots, but I could not get them to restart.

So, I think the roots have to be checked mid-week and when I change water on Sunday. For me, the plants look OK, to my admittedly un-experienced eye.
 
****i posted this in a long/un ending paragraph and figured i'd come back and clean it up to get some responses, dont know why it wouldnt let me enter to line down but fuck it, here it is again in and easier to read format****

&#12288;

hey heisenberg

im new here but not new to growing and honestly a thread over at ICMAG is what sparked my research and eventually led me here and to you. ive got a couple of ideas I wanted to run by you and have your take/opinion on them. im currently going into a grow, and am waiting for the weather to warm up a bit before I get anything started. im running 8x5gl DWC's with GH nutes only, no other additives or anything of the sort (never really needed them).

ive got some EWC from my last organic soil grow and wanted to use lava rocks some how, not so much for the net cups but mainly to keep in the bottom of the buckets themselves. ive never experienced the brown slime BUT I do want preventative measures and from what ive been reading about beneficial bacteria I figured it couldn't hurt to have them around just in case, and I know/agree with what you have said in the thread about not needing anything organic in a "chemical" nute grow but if it can only help and not hinder then I figure what the hell.

ive have read the thread up to about pg36 and figured that with that much im able to ask of you what I need to without sounding like a complete idiot or being unclear:

what im wanting to do is get the lava rocks (as a bio media) inoculated with the BB's first and then place/cover the bottom of the buckets with the inoculated rocks, not just a couple but enough to cover the bottom. what im looking for is for the BB's to take care of any "floaties" that may fall to the bottom and make good use of them. so I guess what im doing is farming BB's. I read the first page with the recipe and all I want to use is the EWC and thats what i have a couple of questions:

** I remember where you advised to cover the rocks in molasses and then let them sit in the tea for a while and that sounds good enough but for about how long in order for the rocks to be properly inoclulated?

** what can I do to transfer/transplant them to a dechlorinated bucket of water for the future grow?

**do I need to prep the water beyond dechlorinating in any way?

** the water in the DWC have been bubbling for about a month now just haven't added the water conditioner I always use to get rid of the chlorine/chloramine. im thinking that what I could do is once the tea is made then I could fill the 5gl bucket I plan to use with the molasses covered lava rocks and give them a day or two to properly inoculate?

reason I ask is that I don't want to have to add anything like a tea of sorts to the buckets during the grow OR if I do have to add the EWC tea it would be not as an additive but in order to keep the colonies up, maybe some molasses here and there to feed them but nothing in the sense or a "regimen".

** I actually had the thought of adding the lava rocks to some water mixed with molasses (tspn per gl) and let them soak in that for a couple of hours. does this sound at all farfetched?

**what is the best way to go about something like what ive described?

**what would be the best way to go about the inoculation and transfer of the inoculated bio media/lava rocks overall?

nice to talk to you by the way! this is the thread/site im coming from if your interested:https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....32#post5664032 im the same no matter what site/forum I join. im like George foreman with the memory so I don't have time for the bullshit of being this person there and that person here. im "FRIENDinDEED" and that's that so some ppl may know me on here as well. thanks, any and all help is greatly appreciated.

grow strong
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Was in consulting my journal so i thought I could help. It needed a bump if we are going to discuss it. Pinned thread and discussions about it, are at odds. I'm glad you got your paragraphing back. We all lost that for days, one time. Hell.

The slime may appear to be gone at first, but comes back strong in as little as 12-36 hours. It starts out subtle like a clear coating of mucus on the roots with no odor. Plants often still appear healthy for a while, but all root production stops. In a very short time it will cover the entire root base and become thicker and sometimes turns yellow. Eventually it strangles the roots which causes pythium to set in, and at that point turns brown and finally has an odor.

Making a microbe tea is cheap and easy, and IMO the proper way to fight this slime in a perpetual DWC garden.

Clean up the root base as well as possible. Now let the roots soak in a mixture of whatever sterilizing agent you have. Physan 20 works great. This is a good time to sterilize any equipment and give the res a good scrub. After a few hours, no more than 12, of soaking in the solution rinse the roots really really well again, prepare a fresh res, and inoculate the res with beneficial microbes. Wait another 12 hours before adding nutes.

*** The smaller your roots, the less likely the are to survive a strong h202 treatment. In my experience using h202 will increase your recovery time.

Once the slime is gone be sure to practice proper res maintenance, which includes keeping any type of organic material out of the res. Trying to sterilize the res water is often a losing battle. In fact, since most hydro sterilizers fail to kill this stuff, when you sterilize the water you are removing competing microbes and opening the field to slime. There are people who use RO filters and then run their water through a UV sterilizer and still end up with the slime. The answer always seems to be beneficial microbes.

Below is my previous introduction to preparing and applying a microbe tea.

By making a microbe tea with a diverse selection of organisms you will have a super tonic for you res that will ward off nasty gunk and build up while at the same time keeping your roots stimulated and growing. Best of all it can be made for just pennies per batch.

Ok so we wont be starting from scratch. You have to buy a few products. But instead of using the products directly in the res, you will be breeding them in a tea. This way, you can use a fraction of the regular dose and make your products last much longer. Plus, you will end up with a freshly active tea that is more diverse than anything you can buy on the market.

Aquashield ($12) The product composition consists of: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. This gives you a base population of beneficial bacteria. (Aquashield can be replaced by any inoculation that contains bacillus bacteria.)

ZHO Powder ($10) The product composition consists of: Glomus intradices, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum, Glomus mosseae, Trichoderma harzianum, and Trichoderma koningii. This gives you a base populartion of beneficial fungi. (ZHO can be replaced by any inoculation that contains myco fungi)

Ancient Forest ($14) - Soil amendment provides a high diversity of microorganisms, including more than 35,000 species of bacteria and over 5,000 species of fungi. (AF can be replaced by any earth worm casting)

EDIT* Mycogrow soluble is the cheapest and most diverse inoculant we have found. It can replace everything here except the ancient forest.


The recipe is really simple. Start with non-chlorinated water. I make 2 gallons at a time, but you can easily adjust the additives for whatever amount you wish to make. Now put the water into a bucket and throw in a couple air stones. The more air the better. You want the water to be almost turbulent from the bubbles. Now, add 15-30ml of aquashield and about 1/4-1/2 scoop of the ZHO powder. You will be breeding these into the billions so it doesn't really matter how much you start with, just don't overdo it. Now take an old sock or pantyhose and fill it with about 2 handfuls of EWC or Ancient Forest. Tie off the sock and place it in the water above an air stone, or better yet, feed an air stone down into the sock itself. If you want, you can just throw the EWC directly into the water and strain it out later with cheesecloth or even an aquarium net. Next, add about a tablespoon of molasses to wake up the microbes and give them something to eat. We will only be feeding the microbes in this tea; never add food for the microbes to the res itself. It's okay if the bennies in the res starve. You will be replacing them every few days. Now let the tea bubble at room tempeture for 48 hours. It can be used after 24, but will be more active and diverse at 48. If you use EWC you will probably notice a foam eventually, this is normal. After 48 hours you can store the tea in the fridge where it will stay fresh for about 10 days. Once it starts to go bad it will develop an odor. If you ever detect an odor from your tea, throw it out and make a new batch. Fresh tea can have a range of smells from earthy to mossy to shroomy. Bad tea smells like gym socks, fecal matter, or decay.

Initially, add about 1 cup to your res for every gallon of water, and then add 1 cup total every 3 days after. If you can, pour a little over the base of the stalk to inoculate the root crown. Your water might get a little cloudy but your roots will stay white and stimulated. When you use tea and practice proper res maintenance you can feel confident your roots will be healthy. By multiplying the microbes this way your products should last a great deal longer. Once you have eradicated slime and simply want protection from future outbreaks, adjust the tea dosage to 1 cup per 10 gallons about once per week.

If you are interested in why the tea works, or what products you may use for substitution, continue reading the rest of the thread. It is a journey I took with others to learn a great more about the tea. If you want to see how I use this tea in a cloner, jump to here.

***In an attempt to address frequent issues which bloat the thread

You can substitute just about any product you want. Any EWC will give you a good base of microbes. Any product or combo of products which contain mycos, bacillus, and trichoderma will do the trick. Don't worry about matching my exact ingredients. The exception is AN microbe products. Stay away from AN microbe products!


If you notice a dark sort of slime form after you treat with tea, stay the course. As long as you see new shoots growing you are on your way to recovery. The after-slime is harmless and will not expand or stall roots. New root tips are what you want to see.

Do not use tea with h202, sm-90, Zone or any type of sterilizing product. Do not filter tea beyond 400 microns.

If you have slime attacking plants with very small roots, adding housing to your res like a lava rock or koi pond mat will make a big difference. Place the housing in your tea brew for the duration and then move it to your res.

No one has reported sprayers clogging from using regular tea. But, if you are concerned you can also try aquashield by itself without brewing. High pressure nozzles will kill most microbes, medium pressure and simple sprayers are fine.


Take care of impropoer res conditions FIRST. Even the tea will not save you from disease if you do not have enough oxygen or proper temperatures. Res water should be around 75f with bennies. Air pump should be at least 1wt per gallon. Light proof your buckets!

If this solution works for you please post in the thread and tell us your story.

I'm happy to answer questions in the thread. You will get a faster reply here than messaging me. Remember, all advice I give is intended for a synthetic DWC grow.

Some FAQ's

Can I run a perpetual batch of tea?

No. The key to fighting slime is a diverse microbe population. No matter what you do to your brew, diversity will peak and begin to decline around the 48 hour mark.

Can I feed the bennies in my res instead of letting them die and replacing them?

No, you would be feeding the slime as well. Some bennies will live on in your roots, most will die. It is simple to replace them which we do every three days while fighting slime, and about once a week after the slime is gone.

Will the chlorine/chloramine in my tap water kill off my bennies?

It is best to use pure water to brew the tea, however adding tap water directly to your buckets in small amounts to top off will not kill enough bennies to matter. I add as much as a gallon of un-aged tap water to my 5 gallon res with no ill effects. If you are worried, simply add a little tea a few hours after watering.

Can I add too much tea?

As long as your tea is brewed properly it is really hard to add too much.

I added tea, maintain proper res conditions, and still have slime!

First be sure you are not simply seeing after-slime. (see above) If it is aggressive slime, then you are probably adding something organic directly to the res. Check each and every thing you put in your mix, and be sure foliar sprays do not drip into the res. Incorporate some type of housing into your res, such as lava rocks.

You are not teaching us how to breed microbes, only multiply them.

Correct.
 

Radionics

Member
Thanks for the detailed post on microbe vs. chlorine based solutions.
2 products I use and am curious if you can speculate any reason the tea would clash with them at all?
Green Planet - Aussie Tonic
Green Planet - Massive
Thanks
 
Hi there, I am not sure if this was mentioned earlier but I have trouble finding the first two ingredients of the tea in my area, but use green planet products and they have a product called root builder, that is a biologically active compost tea. The ingredients are compost tea extract, fishmeal, molasses and kelp extact. I am wondering if I can use this as my compost tea or use it combined with EWC to make the tea?

Also I use a top drip hydroponic system with a 50 gallon res feeding 32 plants, are there any other things I should consider that may be different than for a DWC system. I am not sure if I have the brown slime algae, but my plants seem to be infected with pythium and I am finding an algae in the water. I am currently treating with a product called hydrox, a food grade hydrogen peroxide, but after reading much of this thread I am wondering if the tea is better?

Thanks for any advice.

Edit: Also, should I just use the tea with water in my res or add my nutes as well? My plants are about 4 weeks into flower and were very healthy until I moved them to my flower room. Now they have brown roots and are dying, I have already lost 4.
 
I have a question. When I am making my tea, on about day 3 it starts to have a vague odor of brewing beer and sour milk. It is still foaming like mad, but the airstone gets a thick layer of dark brown slime on it. I have been tossing it out, sterilize the bucket and air stone, then brew another batch and 2-3 days later the stone has thick goo on it and the tea smells just barely like brewing beer again. The odor is very vague. Definitely not earthy, more like a fermentation smell.

Can I use it a few days more or should I keep tossing it and making new batches? Thanks in advance.
 
Hi there, I am not sure if this was mentioned earlier but I have trouble finding the first two ingredients of the tea in my area, but use green planet products and they have a product called root builder, that is a biologically active compost tea. The ingredients are compost tea extract, fishmeal, molasses and kelp extact. I am wondering if I can use this as my compost tea or use it combined with EWC to make the tea?

Also I use a top drip hydroponic system with a 50 gallon res feeding 32 plants, are there any other things I should consider that may be different than for a DWC system. I am not sure if I have the brown slime algae, but my plants seem to be infected with pythium and I am finding an algae in the water. I am currently treating with a product called hydrox, a food grade hydrogen peroxide, but after reading much of this thread I am wondering if the tea is better?

Thanks for any advice.

Edit: Also, should I just use the tea with water in my res or add my nutes as well? My plants are about 4 weeks into flower and were very healthy until I moved them to my flower room. Now they have brown roots and are dying, I have already lost 4.
I did drip hydro for a long time and I can say it is a lot more forgiving than DWC. Im using the tea in coco running drip and the plants love it. It definitely got rid of my root rot issues. I had pythium so bad in my basement that my clones roots would brown as soon as they popped. I started giving them water with tea in it and they started bursting with white roots. No more brown at all. Im thinking of using it in the cloning process just to see what will happen.

I would say go for it dude. Hydrogen peroxide works good for preventative, but once the rot sets in all the H2o2 does is keep it at bay. It turns into a war. I would run 5 ml per gallon of hydrogen peroxide for 2 days to sterilize everything, then change out the reservoir with DE-chlorinated water and add the tea. After that just run the tea as per Heisenbergs basic directions, and you should be good.

Just remember that 5 ml is 1 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide. Your plants can handle it for a few days and it will sterilize everything. That way your tea instantly gains the upper hand.
 
Hi, thanks for the quick feedback. Any ideas on whether the root builder I have is acceptable as a substitute for any or all the ingredients in Mr. H's tea? The product label is not very informative (see ingredients above), however literature and videos on the internet lead me to believe it is similar to the tea described in this thread.

http://www.mygreenplanet.com/product/root-builder/

Thanks.

Edit: Also GreenThumb, as per the FAQ in the post a few above my orginal, I believe you are only supposed to brew the tea for 48hrs. Brewing longer will reduce the effectiveness.

After rereading your post maybe I didn't understand it fully, are you saying that after 2-3 days of storage it starts to go bad, or 2-3 days of brewing? Probably the first one, in which case you can disregard my comment.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
I'm just finishing a batch that will begin my weekly schedule, that I described earlier. I've never got a smell even a day longer. I start on Thursday night and decant on Sunday morning. Half goes in. Half in the fridg.

I don't get any foam. I get some bubbles.....I have two stones in, big air pump....no foam. I use Earth Juice, High Brix, Black Strap. It's very easy to pour. I've heard that molasses can foam in water, so, maybe this type, not so much?

Also, I'm just rinsing and scrubbing my bucket out with tap water and letting it air dry. fwiw. Plenty of chloramine in that to sterilize I guess..

I let the sock full of AF, dry out completely with the air stone in it. I don't change the sock. The spoon I use for the molasses get dumped in the bucket and my cup to take out a gal is dumped cleaned and dunked it. (the sock was draining into that) I peel the sock off the dirt, take the air stone out of the dirt ball (the sock, I cut in half length, a white cotton sock)

I shake the dirt out of the sock. I don't mess with washing it. I just wash off the air stone and after dry, pack it in Ancient Forest in the sock, makes about a soft ball size.

Sock dries in the dosing cup, Cup is in a little plastic, potato salad bucket. The spoon, the cup, and the other air stone, too. The bucket after cleaning, is the turn around kit.

With the lava rock housing, so far so good.

For the fellow that had the reservoir with 4 air stones and they were getting covered with obvious colonies....

When I wash the stone that I embed in the AF, it has colonies that look just like that, same color, shape, etc.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hi guys. I have been occupied with other efforts lately but I am very glad to see you guys helping each other out. I also enjoy seeing the pics of recovering roots after using the tea. There really isn't much more I could put into this thread that hasn't been covered already. I did however find this interesting article on ogtea.com which sheds some light on the foam issue.

When you aerate your microbial tea for 12-24 hours, the conditions are favorable for aerobic bacteria to grow and rapidly multiply. Adding the oxygen &#8220;selects&#8221; or produces conditions that are more favorable for one species of bacteria to grow. The foam is an indication of a population of microbes that is dominated by the group of Bacillus bacteria.


The Bacillus grows faster than all the others of the consortium when air is added. The foam is a bio-film or surfactant produced by the bacteria. It is a mucus-like slime. It is a sign that the bacteria are active. These bacteria make anti-biotics to protect themselves from pathogens. This is the medicine that they will share with your plant in exchange for sugar.

If you keep brewing with the air stone, the microbial population of your tea will change. After 48 hours or so, the Bacillus will have consumed all the carbohydrates and begin to die. Another member of the consortium then becomes the dominant species, Trichoderma fungi.
You will begin to see thread-like filaments or fungal hyphae in your tea if you brew long enough. Be careful or the air stone and pump can become plugged with fungal filaments. Some of these fungi are predators that attack and feed on other fungi which are parasites and cause disease.
Some growers worry about Trichoderma eating beneficial fungi like Glomus species, but since both are members of the same consortium, there is no danger if you let the Glomus grow for a few weeks before you add the Trichoderma. Again, this brew is not better or worse, it is merely fungal dominant. And remember that the pH can continue to drop over time.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Oh, I have been wondering about the pH dropping. I'd always seen a rise before the Bens.

I'll check that site, thanks.

If that says what I think, it means that I am alway fungi dominate, but not lacking the foaming bacillus....or maybe I'm not making it?

Well, the roots tell the story, I'll say.
 
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