Growing in Michigan? Not for LONG!

Dr. Who · Sep 15, 2016

Uberknot said:
OK now it's time to do the tracking act give me a a few minutes.....

You do know you can look up the EXACT wording in any thing the government does?

First.....this is the Tracking act and what it is defined as.....

HB4827, As Passed House, Sep, 14, 2016HB-4827, As Passed Senate, September 8, 2016 SENATE SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 4827 A bill to establish a statewide monitoring system to track marihuana and marihuana products in commercial trade.

to monitor compliance with laws authorizing commercial traffic in medical marihuana; to identify threats to health from particular batches of marihuana or medical marihuana; to require persons engaged in commercial marihuana trade to submit certain information for entry into the system; to provide the powers and duties of certain state departments and agencies; to provide for remedies; and to provide for the promulgation of rules.

Now notice the words Commercial Trade......

Like I said above. THAT is simply the frame work to form the BILL!
It will be defined and the actual legal regulations written later! They do NOT have the whole thing written!
That BIG loophole of having to have a traceable origin and path to sale, is still wide open to final interpretation!

If you guys think that can't happen!

You don't understand just how, at least this, government works!
And/or you've been sucking on the heroin laced teat of the press information given by the government! They want you nice and numb and dumb per actual operations!

Uberknot · Sep 15, 2016

Dr. Who said:
Like I said above. THAT is simply the frame work to form the BILL!
It will be defined and the actual legal regulations written later! They do NOT have the whole thing written!
That BIG loophole of having to have a traceable origin and path to sale, is still wide open to final interpretation!

If you guys think that can't happen!

You don't understand just how, at least this, government works!
And/or you've been sucking on the heroin laced teat of the press information given by the government! They want you nice and numb and dumb per actual operations!

Nah it's attached to the 4209 bill and applies to that for verification purposes.

Would you like to know who gets to be on the board? and who picks them? that is public info as well?

Part 8. Marihuana Advisory Panel The Marihuana Advisory Panel would be created within LARA. The 14-member panel would include the director of the Department of State Police, director of the Department of Health and Human Services, director of LARA, the attorney general, and the director of the Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, or their designees. The rest of the membership would be appointed by the governor as follows:

o One registered medical marihuana patient or medical marihuana primary caregiver.
o One representative of growers.
o One representative of provisioning centers.
o One representative of safety compliance centers.
o One representative of townships.
o One representative of cities and villages.
o One representative of counties.
o One representative of local law enforcement agencies.
o One state-licensed physician.

The bill would establish the process for appointments and filling vacancies, and how often the panel would meet. Business would be conducted at a public meeting in compliance with the Open Meetings Act. Writings prepared, owned, used, in the possession of, or retained by the panel in the performance of official duties would be subject to the Freedom of Information Act. Panel members would serve without compensation but could be reimbursed for actual and necessary expenses. The panel would make recommendations to the Board concerning promulgation of rules, and as requested by the Board or LARA, administration of the new act. State departments and agencies must cooperate with the panel and upon request, provide it with meeting space and other resources to assist it in the performance of its duties.

4nikator · Sep 15, 2016

Uberknot said:
I don't think dispensaries were ever really legal in michigan ever.

Ya know the governor is about to be voted out the next election he has. and if they really do start running around busting the hundreds of thousands of legal medical patients the house and senate will follow. SO it will be a circle jerk it that happens and new laws will take their place in due time.

I for one highly doubt they will go around and arrest every single medical patient in michigan not buying weed from the government and growing their own.

I'll tell you what I do see happening many dispensaries will be closed and they will control which ones are allowed.

There were too many people taking advantage of the dispensaries and too many of them not obeying the laws or guidelines for dispensaries.

I just broke my index finger trying to smash that f'ing tick in the right hand corner, gaddamit!!!

Dr. Who · Sep 15, 2016

@Uberknot @Michiganmeds1982

JUST got emailed back by the lawyer!

He states that YOU are correct as per personal and caregiver growing!
He said that's what the year long hold up to the senate vote was about!

In the old form as passed by the house. Those rights were in question for just the reason's I stated all along!
The new written form of the bill addressed those concern's and made it an "along side" set of acts to the MMMA!
I was going on the wording of the original !

He has had his website reflect the answers too!

I now stand still to take my slaps!

All I have to say here is THANK GOD they changed it!
I'm very happy for all of us!

PS
He does say that you had better be prepared to be able to answer the question of "You have plants that will be over the legal amount personal limit. What do you do with your overage's?" (Tell them you burn it - it's the accepted way to dispose of an overage - told that buy the arresting coppers last year).

This issue is now moot....

Uberknot · Sep 15, 2016

Dr. Who said:
JUST got emailed back by the lawyer!

He states that YOU are correct as per personal and caregiver growing!
He said that's what the year long hold up to the senate vote was about!

In the old form as passed by the house. Those rights were in question for just the reason's I stated all along!
The new written form of the bill addressed those concern's and made it an "along side" set of acts to the MMMA!
I was going on the wording of the original !

He has had his website reflect the answers too!

I now stand still to take my slaps!

All I have to say here is THANK GOD they changed it!
I'm very happy for all of us!

PS
He does say that you had better be prepared to be able to answer the question of "You have plants that will be over the legal amount personal limit. What do you do with your overage's?" (Tell them you burn it - it's the accepted way to dispose of an overage - told that buy the arresting coppers last year).

This issue is now moot....

Excellent...

and yes wording is EVERYTHING when it comes to Bills.

:clap:

Rrog · Sep 15, 2016

Thanks for all participating in this thread

Dr. Who · Sep 15, 2016

Uberknot said:
Excellent... and yes wording is EVERYTHING when it comes to Bills.

You have been a great counter to my point!
I enjoyed you and MImeds back and forth with me!

I credit MM1982 and you for making me get off my ass and to actually check with one of the lawyers who actually supported our case last year!

I got used to your bug after trying to squash the fucker too, when you put it up....

HydroRed · Sep 15, 2016

Great thread. A discussion of opposing points on RIU that didn't get juvenile....KUDOS :clap:

Michiganmeds1982 · Sep 15, 2016

Dr. Who said:
@Uberknot @Michiganmeds1982

JUST got emailed back by the lawyer!

He states that YOU are correct as per personal and caregiver growing!
He said that's what the year long hold up to the senate vote was about!

In the old form as passed by the house. Those rights were in question for just the reason's I stated all along!
The new written form of the bill addressed those concern's and made it an "along side" set of acts to the MMMA!
I was going on the wording of the original !

He has had his website reflect the answers too!

I now stand still to take my slaps!

All I have to say here is THANK GOD they changed it!
I'm very happy for all of us!

PS
He does say that you had better be prepared to be able to answer the question of "You have plants that will be over the legal amount personal limit. What do you do with your overage's?" (Tell them you burn it - it's the accepted way to dispose of an overage - told that buy the arresting coppers last year).

This issue is now moot....

No slaps needed bro, you are still a member of this community and your opinions are welcome....I just like to debate....

Rrog · Sep 15, 2016

Hugs!!!

Michiganjesse · Sep 15, 2016

Dr. Who said:
I was this way!
People gave me shit about being a disp. owner when I reported my bust back in Feb and how I over charged and made huge profits at the cost of patients!

This was BS of the highest order! I got into it FOR the patients who, for what ever reason, did not want to grow or have a care giver. I was even surprised at the number that came for help and actual knowledge about what strain and how best to use it for their problems.

I had folks who could NOT pay at all! These are the folks that became (for the most part) our patients that filled our caregiver license's! These and any others that could not pay were GIVEN meds for free! When and as needed! We had those that we allowed to pay what they "could" and we never turned down the things they brought! Craft items to animals to produce and canned goods!

Sure! We made money! I'm not going to lie.....We charged $20 per for top shelf and we had lots of top shelf! this was for those with the cards but, you could basically tell they were in it for the recreational aspect.....There's always going to be Dr's That'll sign papers for money! Bet YOU'VE seen that! It's these people who in a way "subsidised" the those who actually needed medicine and couldn't afford it!

All mid's were 13 a gm - 1/8's - 40, 1/4's 80, 1/2 160 and zips were 300......No crappy 10 gram weed!
Any edibles and/or concentrates or oils (Simpson - cbd extract, etc) was done on a personal basis at the patients home when the edible/concentrate ban hit.

That's how I ran my business!

Besides, there is OVERHEAD you know!

Lots of overhead and us some people don't need it but have a card in sorry that happened to you even if you made money that is called capitalism or country was based on this. Especially if you helped those in need that is what covers the broke stock sick guy or gal. I don't need to ask for meds often but i have and was taken care of on the what you got deal will this work for you deal. Our even been gifted

Budley Doright · Sep 15, 2016

30 a gram? Is that, or was that the going rate? Seems a tad steep but I guess it's whatever the market will bare. Just got back from the reserve dispensary and 7 grams for 50 Canadian so thats like a buck for you southern guys

. I couldn't decide so I bought 5 quarters to test which strain is going into the lab this winter, great place for testers

. Im thinking it won't be running much longer though but it is a reserve so they may not fuck with it.

Michiganjesse · Sep 16, 2016

Budley Doright said:
30 a gram? Is that, or was that the going rate? Seems a tad steep but I guess it's whatever the market will bare. Just got back from the reserve dispensary and 7 grams for 50 Canadian so thats like a buck for you southern guys . I couldn't decide so I bought 5 quarters to test which strain is going into the lab this winter, great place for testers . Im thinking it won't be running much longer though but it is a reserve so they may not fuck with it.

$30 a gram ugh

Dr. Who · Sep 16, 2016

@Uberknot @Michiganmeds1982@Michiganjesse

I've got one more email from Rick Thompson to share with you all. I emailed him at the same time I emailed Bill (the lawyer).

Rick is a longtime activist and follows the goings on in the state government. He writes for several MMM publications and web news sites.

I asked him -
"So then. In these new bills for growing and dist.

Where does the patient grower stand? Will he be able to grow his own or will he be guilty of a felony by not having weed that was tracked/certified by the Tracking act!

How about the caregiver? Can he still grow and supply his patients or will that "official" stamp of tracking record screw him too?"

He answered back last night -

"Thanks for you email. Here's the answers.

1. Personal growing is not changed.
2. caregiving for your five patients is not changed.
3. caregivers AT THIS TIME are not required to perform the seed-to-sale tracking program.

Now, the longer answer.
1. State Police and legislative people have said their ultimate end goal is to eliminate the caregiver system. Has been since we forced it on them in 2008.
2. Patients that get their cannabis in medibles or oil forms are going to have to carry a manifest created by the caregiver to say exactly how much the patient received, the date, caregiver's address, etc. If cops pull someone over they immediately know where the medible came from; if there is a legal problem of some sort, they cops can drive right to the house where the medible was sold.
3. Failing to do this properly- transferring marijuana in violation of the Act- is now going to be a felony instead of a misdemeanor.
4, ZERO transfers from caregivers into the new market- can't even sell clones to a grow house if you are a caregiver.

Now, we know that they want to eliminate caregivers- and they want to eliminate personal cultivation, too. Imagine that all the folks growing their own are taking marijuana sales away from the cultivation centers and dispensaries this new Act authorizes. All sales and transfers in the new market are tracked, recorded and controlled; sales between patient and caregiver or personal consumption is not taxed, uncontrolled and gives no revenue to the state. They want every gram of weed to bring tax dollars. They will be angling to eliminate personal cultivation. First they'll cut it from 12 plants to 3, then to zero.

So, everybody in your argument is right. No change for now to the caregiver/patient system, but this is a big step toward the elimination of it.

Share this with anyone you want to. I'm happy to help, any time.

Forever fight,

Rick Thompson "

I think I tried to convey this point - Most likely not well.
Schutte is behind the whole getting rid of MM movement !

He's running for Gov. in 2 years

Now what do you think he will do in that office!

It's time for all of us to bury the political hatchet and NOT vote down party lines!
Don't forget to find out how your local reps stand on MM!

VOTE THE ISSUES!

bryan oconner · Sep 16, 2016

hey if you harvest a few plants and will be over just dont water the plants the soil drys out and throw a plastic bag over the entire plant and vacuum seal it all roots and pot in this vacuum seal . then its a plant and not finished product . sounds stupid but better then being over like i said all my posts are talking about tomato plants .

radrolley · Sep 16, 2016

1. Personal growing is not changed.
2. caregiving for your five patients is not changed.
3. caregivers AT THIS TIME are not required to perform the seed-to-sale tracking program.

This made me feel a little better for now...
Patients/Caregivers may have won the battle, but I'm afraid the war is far from over. Schuette has long time been a political enemy to many good residents in the state of MI. He really needs to get the hell out of the state.

And $30 a gram? Even during prohibition I never heard or prices being more than $20 a gram for top notch. Where I am at these times it averages $200 an ounce for top notch. $30 should get you at least an eighth of an ounce if you have a good caregiver.

Uberknot · Sep 16, 2016

Also do not forget you are allowed to sell seeds and seedlings to Growers

Dr. Who said:
@Uberknot @Michiganmeds1982@Michiganjesse

I've got one more email from Rick Thompson to share with you all. I emailed him at the same time I emailed Bill (the lawyer).

Rick is a longtime activist and follows the goings on in the state government. He writes for several MMM publications and web news sites.

I asked him -
"So then. In these new bills for growing and dist.

Where does the patient grower stand? Will he be able to grow his own or will he be guilty of a felony by not having weed that was tracked/certified by the Tracking act!

How about the caregiver? Can he still grow and supply his patients or will that "official" stamp of tracking record screw him too?"

He answered back last night -

"Thanks for you email. Here's the answers.

1. Personal growing is not changed.
2. caregiving for your five patients is not changed.
3. caregivers AT THIS TIME are not required to perform the seed-to-sale tracking program.

Now, the longer answer.
1. State Police and legislative people have said their ultimate end goal is to eliminate the caregiver system. Has been since we forced it on them in 2008.
2. Patients that get their cannabis in medibles or oil forms are going to have to carry a manifest created by the caregiver to say exactly how much the patient received, the date, caregiver's address, etc. If cops pull someone over they immediately know where the medible came from; if there is a legal problem of some sort, they cops can drive right to the house where the medible was sold.
3. Failing to do this properly- transferring marijuana in violation of the Act- is now going to be a felony instead of a misdemeanor.
4, ZERO transfers from caregivers into the new market- can't even sell clones to a grow house if you are a caregiver.

Now, we know that they want to eliminate caregivers- and they want to eliminate personal cultivation, too. Imagine that all the folks growing their own are taking marijuana sales away from the cultivation centers and dispensaries this new Act authorizes. All sales and transfers in the new market are tracked, recorded and controlled; sales between patient and caregiver or personal consumption is not taxed, uncontrolled and gives no revenue to the state. They want every gram of weed to bring tax dollars. They will be angling to eliminate personal cultivation. First they'll cut it from 12 plants to 3, then to zero.

So, everybody in your argument is right. No change for now to the caregiver/patient system, but this is a big step toward the elimination of it.

Share this with anyone you want to. I'm happy to help, any time.

Forever fight,

Rick Thompson "

I think I tried to convey this point - Most likely not well.
Schutte is behind the whole getting rid of MM movement !

He's running for Gov. in 2 years

Now what do you think he will do in that office!

It's time for all of us to bury the political hatchet and NOT vote down party lines!
Don't forget to find out how your local reps stand on MM!

VOTE THE ISSUES!

Yup knew all that ...they don't like care givers....and the new infused stuff.

Problem is the governor has to get re-elected....which is not going to happen.

We will stuff a dem in office and things will change.

The republicans can wet dream all they want....their shit is about to end.

Why do you think they are stuffing this through now? capitalism and control.

Patients and Caregivers. can sell seeds and seedlings to a grower.
(this seems to me a way to try and track/find people)

Oh and you were saying a lot of stuff.....esp we won't be able to grow at home....that will never end for patients.

ttystikk · Sep 16, 2016

Dr. Who said:
If you think the Bills in the House, passed by the Senate last week, will preserve your personal MM right to grow.

You are all deluded!

I fought this in hearings at the Senate level months ago! My shop got raided all my operations shut down and agreements from local DA's ignored! Schutte came after me because I testified against these bills. I TOLD THE TRUTH and it got me busted!

There will be NO, let me repeat this again. There will be NO legal growing outside of the big (can you say prairie farms?) 500 to 1500 plant growers.
ALL MM patients WILL have to go to APPROVED MM disp.! Your not getting the writing on the wall! IF the police come to your house or catch you in possession - any time any where, with MM that does NOT have a way to be tracked back to the LEGAL source! YOUR BUSTED! That legal source MUST BE A STATE LICENSED GROWING operation! HOME GROWING will have NO way to be licensed or traceable back to your exact grow! IN EFFECT - ALL PERSONAL GROWING WILL BE ILLEGAL! You won't have that "seed to sale" REQUIRED PROOF of ORIGIN! You WILL be busted as having unregistered and therefor illegal weed!

They may have changed some words BUT, the meaning as it was INTENDED back when it was written. IS still the same!

MI is about to go NO PERSONAL GROWING - even if they don't "officially" change the law to say so!

As per this crap - http://thecompassionchronicles.com/...michigan-medical-marijuana-bills-pass-senate/

I don't give a SHIT what the writer of that non-informative piece of newsless trash said.....ALL dispensaries are ILLEGAL under STATE LAW! I should know! I WAS BUSTED FOR MINE and HAD THE "OFFICIAL OK" to operate under what Schutte him self said as to local enforcement choosing to or not! I was told directly, that the word to raid me came directly from Bill Schutte himself!
It was passed to a multi county drug enforcement team and not "local" authorities whom I had the blessing from! I was not the only place targeted for owners/operators testifying!

They word it so you THINK it's ok. THEN SCREW YOU WITH THE DETAILS!

REMEMBER THE DETAILS ARE NO NON RECORDED POSSESSION! (They ain't "recording" your home med grow - so your a no-no!) This will open the door for you to loose your kids and home! They have made the new possession laws FELONY'S !!!! HUGE fines and mandatory jail times (for second offence and above)!

Today was the House vote - It got cancelled as some Rep died on his motorcycle.....Sad for him - good for us,,,,,,CALL/EMAIL YOUR HOUSE REP and say VOTE NO!

This bill is slated to pass by what I'm told by insiders - SO START CALLING/EMAILING THE GOV. AND TELL HIM TO NOT SIGN IT!

If the states are considered laboratories for democracy, Michigan is the official lab for right wing fascism.

Uberknot · Sep 16, 2016

I will say this as a Patient ( Legit one ) I would not buy into this new system or use it ever.

They have lost People who will use their Dispensaries.

Odin* · Sep 16, 2016

@Dr. Who Thompson's response mirrors my thoughts on this. No change is necessary within "Caregiver" and "Patient Grower" laws for the new Law to have an indirect (or even direct) effect on "Caregivers"/"Patient Growers". The law is written with clear bias towards the State devised Grow/Transport/Dispense system. Anything outside of this Licensed/documented system is now the same as "Black Market".

The "manifest" can easily be used against the Caregiver/Patient. If your eta is off by miscalculation or "speed bumps", or you've deviated even slightly from the "shortest path" to the destination (as stated on the manifest), you're getting "Bofo'd" (if stopped). That's just one way to get popped. Getting pulled over/hassled, not very likely, unless they know that you are a caregiver. Seeing as how the Caregiver program is "under attack", it seems quite plausible that law enforcement will be given the green light (along with addresses and names) to eradicate the "threat", systematically, of course. Crossing your "T's" and dotting your "i's" may not be enough to CYA.

In regards to the new law, it is crucial to "read between the lines".

Growing in Michigan? Not for LONG!

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