How long does soil take compared to hydro?

cektor

Active Member
I am on my first grow atm with 4 sprouts in 4 half-gallon containers. I got one plant about 5 inches tall, another about 3 and then two more that are 1 1/2 inch tall.

Well Its been a week since my smallest and a little more than 2 weeks for my largest. How long am I looking at growing in soil before flowering and then how long is flowering?

Whats the time comparison with hydroponic versus soil grown? Also I have them in a 1.5ft by 1.5ft foot area in my closet with 5500 lumens of light on them about 16 inches away. How close do my lights need to be? One is a 3,900 lumen CFL and the other a 1,600 lumen.
 

xKaminAx

Well-Known Member
Just so you know, lumens dont add, so your getting 3,900 lumens MAX, not 5500. I dont know about the hydro, I am thinking it depends on how your growing. I am waiting till week 8 to flower, but this is my first grow so dunno (using soil, with 8 4 foot flos w/ 3k Lumens in like 8 sq foot of area.).
 

cektor

Active Member
I am a bit confused on the "Lumens don't add" part. So each light needs to cover atleast 1sqft in 2,200 lumens or its not gonna work out?
 

xKaminAx

Well-Known Member
One of the good descriptions of how lumens dont add is: If you have 2 cars traveling on the highway going 60 mph. Their speeds dont add, ie combined they arent going 120 mph.

I think its generally better to have 3k+ lumens per square foot. When I first started, I had my lights 2 inches above my plants (2 3k lumen 4 foot bulbs), and when they got about 10 inches tall, the bottom leaves started dying from lack of light. Fixed this by spreading them out, having 4 bulbs on top, and 2 bulbs on each side, growing very strong now with just 3k lumens (veg).
 

cektor

Active Member
Hmm, what did the panel and 4 of those bulbs cost? I am thinking up a similar system for my closet.
 

xKaminAx

Well-Known Member
I lucked out. I got 10 4 tube fixtures w/ ballasts at an auction for 50 bucks total, tubes are like 15-20 bucks for 10 or so I think (T12s, which are 36-40 watts and 3k lumens, think 4100k).

You can get the 2 tube fixtures for 20 bucks (dont think they come with the tubes though), a couple of them can grow several plants, my 8 tubes are growing 18 strong (plus 5 new seedlings), getting to the point where they are blocking eachothers light though, and going to set another 8 tubes up elsewhere and put half there.

If your only doing a couple plant closet grow, I'd go for like 2-3 of something like these . Stand them up vertically around your plants to maximize light. Have something like a 150 HPS above the plants for better results if possible, or atleast a few CFLs to make sure the plants dont try to lean in odd directions lol.
 

marc.jeoffories

Active Member
Just so you know, lumens dont add, so your getting 3,900 lumens MAX, not 5500.
If you have 3 apples [lumens] and someone gives you 2 more apples [lumens] how many apples do you have?
Of course lumens add... why else would people use more than one light?!?!

As to the main question: It depends on how big you want your plant to get. It will continue to grow as long as it has space, food and light. If you are doing a small personal grow, let it veg about a month to 6 weeks then let it flower til its ready (depending on the strain).
 

oldgrayhair

Well-Known Member
If you have 3 apples [lumens] and someone gives you 2 more apples [lumens] how many apples do you have?
Of course lumens add... why else would people use more than one light?!?!
Wrong, please stop mis-information people.

The reason folks add light is to cover more square footage.

Do some research, you'll learn something today!
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
I am on my first grow atm with 4 sprouts in 4 half-gallon containers. I got one plant about 5 inches tall, another about 3 and then two more that are 1 1/2 inch tall.

Well Its been a week since my smallest and a little more than 2 weeks for my largest. How long am I looking at growing in soil before flowering and then how long is flowering?

Whats the time comparison with hydroponic versus soil grown? Also I have them in a 1.5ft by 1.5ft foot area in my closet with 5500 lumens of light on them about 16 inches away. How close do my lights need to be? One is a 3,900 lumen CFL and the other a 1,600 lumen.

my 2 inch clones turn into 10 - 12 inch plants within 7 days using hydro DWC method thats when i flower
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
so youre saying if you had 5 cfls right nixt to each other it wouldnt give off any more lumens than 1 cfl?
 
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xKaminAx

Well-Known Member
If you have 3 apples [lumens] and someone gives you 2 more apples [lumens] how many apples do you have?
Of course lumens add... why else would people use more than one light?!?!

As to the main question: It depends on how big you want your plant to get. It will continue to grow as long as it has space, food and light. If you are doing a small personal grow, let it veg about a month to 6 weeks then let it flower til its ready (depending on the strain).
People use more lights to get better light coverage. Like a 3k lumen light gives 3k lumens basically right next to light, but a foot away that may only be half that or less. More lights spread out means more consistant coverage and better penetration from different angles.

so youre saying if you had 5 cfls right nixt to each other it wouldnt give off any more lumens than 1 cfl?
Exactally, thats why CFLs arent as good as other lights, they put out around 1200-1500 lumens most the time, which is about half of what you need per square foor for good veg. Not saying you cant use them, just not the best. Though its good to use them if you place them between your plants to help light the hard to reach areas so they grow more evenly.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
I dont think you quite understand lumens and how light works

1. What is light?

Light is electromagnetic radiation, and may be interpreted as either a wave or a particle: thus the phrase wave/particle duality. It exhibits phenomena that may be explained by its wavelike characteristics - interference, for example - while also demonstrating some that are best explained by its particle-like properties - such as the photoelectric effect.

Treating light like a particle, a light source emits many light particles called photons. These are distinguishable by ONE unique property - their energy. When treating light like a wave, this is referred to as the wavelength, and is visible to us as a difference in color.

The main point is this: photons of the same energy (wavelength, color) from different sources, for example MH, HPS, CFL, T5, etc. are THE SAME.

2. What is light intensity?

Light intensity is simply the flux of photons per unit area per unit time. More photons means increased intensity. That's it.

3. What do lumens, lux, and foot-candles mean?

*Lumen:

This is the unit that defines "luminous flux", which is "radiant flux" (energy emission) adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye. In the context of a light bulb, it is a measure of the total number of photons being emitted by the bulb (summed over all directions), adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye to different photon energies.

What this means is that different colors are weighted differently according to a "luminosity function" that describes the sensitivity of our eyes. You can see this function and a more detailed description here.

*Lux, foot-candles:

The lux is simply defined as the number of lumens per second incident upon one square meter. In other words, it is the number of photons striking a finite area per unit time, weighted by the luminosity function described above.

The foot-candle is a derivative unit that is equal to 10.76 lux. It was defined based on the square foot, so the conversion is simply based on an area conversion.

4. What does this mean when using multiple light sources?

So we've established that lux are the number of photons striking a unit area per unit time, weighted by a luminosity function.

We've also established that photons from the same light source are indistinguishable, as long as they have the same energy/wavelength/color.

What this means is that if you put two lights the same distance from a point, and each light provides N photons per unit area at the point, with two lights you will have 2N photons per unit area at the point. Because intensity is a measure of the number of photons per unit area, the light is twice as intense, whatever unit you choose to use. Twice the lumens, twice the lux, twice the footcandles.

An obvious practical caveat to this point comes when using multiple low-intensity light sources. Notice how I stated that the lights were at the same distance? A practical problem with CFLs, for example, is that while you can get 27000 lumens from 10 x 42W CFLs, it's difficult to get them close enough to make them useful. If you have them in a line, for example, as I've shown below, each successive light is further from the meter, and the effective increase will be reduced. They still add, but according to the 1/d^2 rule, so having a bulb 2cm farther away will yield diminishing returns. On the other hand, this can be an effective way of distributing light, whereas with HID you need to distribute the plants around your single point light source.
 

bleezyg420

Well-Known Member
but you stilll neeed the penetration and cfl's dont do it. Youll need to balls up and spend $100 on a hps. MJ loves HPS!
 

oldgrayhair

Well-Known Member
Think he means if you start with 90K lumens, and say (for conversation only) that 3 feet away you are getting 20K lumens, sort of equates to penetration through the canopy.

Anyhow, hydro kicks butt, that was the point of the thread. Light it however you wish, only your experiences will guide you as you learn.

Peace - OGH
 

xKaminAx

Well-Known Member
I have a basic understanding of light but lumens dont add, and penetration is very important. Like bleezy said, CFLs dont penetrate for crap. And HPS really have the bang for their buck, I just havent saved the money to buy one yet.
 

hom36rown

Well-Known Member
no difference in penetration, light isnt measured in penetration, it is measured in intensity, and lumens do add, if you have an object a foot away from a bulb and it is getting 5000 lumens from that bulb, then you add another bulb equal distance away its will be getting another 5000 lumens from that bulb, so altogether 10000 lumens, lumens do add

The same wattage of fluorescent light used at the same distance as a HID lamp provides equal "penetration". This myth arises because people tend to use fluorescent lights very close to plants (to compensate for having less power) and HID lights quite far away. The difference in light intensity between the top of a plant 2" from a light and the bottom maybe 12" from the light is very large, while the difference between 20" and 30" from a light is relatively small. No difference if you have the same amount of light, the fluorescents may actually perform better because the light is distributed more evenly.
 
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