I need advice on maximizing yield.

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marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
Vegetating
35 Plants (Untopped but as of late started to top when getting close to light)
2ft X 4ft Clone Tent
2ft X 4ft T5HO fluorescent (6 lamp but only using 4)
House and Gardens Complete Line of Nutrients
FoxFarm Ocean Forest Soil

Flowering
35 Plants
2 Light Rails
2 600 watt Hortilux Super HPS
2 Adjust a wing Medium reflectors with Super Spreaders
2 600 Watt Lumatek Digital Ballast
House and Gardens Complete Line of Nutrients
Reverse Osmosis Water
Metro Mix
Multiple Strains
3 Gallon Roots Organic Cloth Pots
Booster fan in dryer vent to pump in fresh air.

Other
Use buckets to the level the canopy
Lollipop taller plants
Plants in close proximity (space issue)
I get about 1.3 oz per plant
Average 77 degrees 30% humidity


What is the best way to maximize yield given these circumstances? I'm looking into getting a 1000 Watt for one rail (under the taller plants) and putting the 2 600s on one rail (under the shorter plants). How do people feel about ScrOG for a setup this large? Should I add the other two T5HO bulbs to the clone tent? Any nutrient additives to complement the H&G Line? Any pointers or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
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hampster

Member
Meh why not decrease your plant count SUBSTANTIALLY, along with the workload? Are the strain a branching hybrid or a lollipop indica?

I get 4-5oz of premium bud from a two-weeks vegged hybrid topped and maximized with prunings and guiding of branches, in 3,5 gallon pots...

Veg until 6-8 STRONG branches, which usually mean 10-12 in total including the top, brutally cut the weak lower branches and the top to be left with these 6-8, let recover for a couple of days, and flower. For my favorite hybrid I snip the two upper tops at day 5-6 in flower, to be left with 8-10 colas levelling out pretty fucking nicely. 4 plants under each lamp.

Guide, direct, prune and maintain all of the tops in the light during especially the stretch, but also to a degree in veg. IMPORTANT.

But the prune timings and such must be tested and adapted to the strain, experiment and try... And you of course needs to run a tight ship regarding maintenance of the plants and general growroutines and skills to max it out.

My 0.2
 
M

marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
hampster said:
Meh why not decrease your plant count SUBSTANTIALLY, along with the workload? Are the strain a branching hybrid or a lollipop indica?

I get 4-5oz of premium bud from a two-weeks vegged hybrid topped and maximized with prunings and guiding of branches, in 3,5 gallon pots...

Veg until 6-8 STRONG branches, which usually mean 10-12 in total including the top, brutally cut the weak lower branches and the top to be left with these 6-8, let recover for a couple of days, and flower. For my favorite hybrid I snip the two upper tops at day 5-6 in flower, to be left with 8-10 colas levelling out pretty fucking nicely. 4 plants under each lamp.

Guide, direct, prune and maintain all of the tops in the light during especially the stretch, but also to a degree in veg. IMPORTANT.

But the prune timings and such must be tested and adapted to the strain, experiment and try... And you of course needs to run a tight ship regarding maintenance of the plants and general growroutines and skills to max it out.

My 0.2
Click to expand...
Well I can see how you would get more yield per plant but I'm looking for overall yield. If i have 1.3 oz per plant. On a perpetual harvest I'm doing about 70 plants per 4 months (35 always flowering, 35 always vegging) 70 Plants X 1.3 OZ = 91 OZ, 91 OZ X 3 (Harvests Per Year) = 273 OZ Per Year. Plus the added benefit of so many plants allows me to harvest about 15 plants a month, MULTI STRAIN BONUS. Please correct me if I'm wrong or show me some calculated figures of your method. Either way + REP to you sir for quick response and once I get into a larger space I'll be adding lights, spacing plants more, and following exactly what you suggested.
 
H

hampster

Member
Hehehe I havent done that kind of math, but I'm approaching 1 gram per watt under the 600 hps in this way, and essentially have a SOG-kind of filling of even tops on 4 roots/pots under the lamp... Can't be bothered with all these clones and pots...

But some of it is due to the rest of my routines I guess... I run aerated liquid organics drain-to-waste in 30% perlite-enhanced peat. Standard nursery nutes, Bio-Bact for veg and a combination of that and a molasses-based fert with higher P ratings for bloom. Both enhanced at times with seaweed extraxt for micros, and SLIGHTLY tweaked with chem-additives (P-K) for ratios...

I water with 10-20% run-off to constantly keep the metabolic waste-products and possible nute-excesses from accumulating in the media, and they need atleast a litre of nuted water twice a day at their peak to achieve the run-off and keep them from drying out... As the roots contract the peat a bit as they fill the pots it gets real airy with the perlite, and this seems to sort of supercharge them, hehe...

I really think I'm onto something with it, would be fun to see what others could do with it if they're inclined to try, hehehe...
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
hampster said:
Hehehe I havent done that kind of math, but I'm approaching 1 gram per watt under the 600 hps in this way, and essentially have a SOG-kind of filling of even tops on 4 roots/pots under the lamp... Can't be bothered with all these clones and pots...

But some of it is due to the rest of my routines I guess... I run aerated liquid organics drain-to-waste in 30% perlite-enhanced peat. Standard nursery nutes, Bio-Bact for veg and a combination of that and a molasses-based fert with higher P ratings for bloom. Both enhanced at times with seaweed extraxt for micros, and SLIGHTLY tweaked with chem-additives (P-K) for ratios...

I water with 10-20% run-off to constantly keep the metabolic waste-products and possible nute-excesses from accumulating in the media, and they need atleast a litre of nuted water twice a day at their peak to achieve the run-off and keep them from drying out... As the roots contract the peat a bit as they fill the pots it gets real airy with the perlite, and this seems to sort of supercharge them, hehe...

I really think I'm onto something with it, would be fun to see what others could do with it if they're inclined to try, hehehe...
Click to expand...
I've got a very similar setup. Small number of overall plants, maximum production for the space. Mine is a legal medical garden, and I usually run between 6-12 plants (depends on genetics)under a 1kw hortilux with a very good reflector in a 5x5 space. I run a modified SCROG where I just use that to control my sativas, and direct the indica colas, nice even canopy with multiple strains. I pull around 1g/watt but I have a longer veg time, around 4-6 weeks. I'm currently running a Bio nutrient line and I'm loving the quality. I can yield a bit more with synthetics, but I really like the quality I'm getting with the Bio nutrients.
 
H

hampster

Member
Wolverine97 said:
I've got a very similar setup. Small number of overall plants, maximum production for the space. Mine is a legal medical garden, and I usually run between 6-12 plants (depends on genetics)under a 1kw hortilux with a very good reflector in a 5x5 space. I run a modified SCROG where I just use that to control my sativas, and direct the indica colas, nice even canopy with multiple strains. I pull around 1g/watt but I have a longer veg time, around 4-6 weeks. I'm currently running a Bio nutrient line and I'm loving the quality. I can yield a bit more with synthetics, but I really like the quality I'm getting with the Bio nutrients.
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Yeah to be precise I run clone from clone in a 2 week interval with a mother for safekeeping, and the clones root in less than a week and spends a week more vegging in the chamber before I veg them under the lamp. So +3 weeks vegged really.
 
D

dlively11

Well-Known Member
Max yield keep the higher numbers. Want a gram plus per watt perpetual garden keep the plant number atleast 2 per SQ foot. I get better yields if I go with 4 per SQ foot and remove a lot of leaves/lower brances by week 3 of bloom when stretch stops. I can still get tad over 1 gram per watt with 2 plants per SQ foot and swicth at 8-10 inches tall. Dont top or train the plants. If height becomes an issue hot them with some Bushmaster and they will stop in their tracks going to full bloom. Keep the tray filled. Have your next batch of plants ready to put in there the day you chop your crop down. At 4 per SQ foot
I like to go 12/12 at 6-8 inches tall and they end up around 18 inches. You'll have a field of colas and a tray that constantly puts out nothing but buds. No wasted veg time in your bloom area is key.

Oh and good genetics is key along with good enviroment. If you dont use CO2 use a lot of fresh air. I use over double the recomended of incoming air, plants love lots of fresh air.

HTH
 
M

marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
dlively11 said:
Max yield keep the higher numbers. Want a gram plus per watt perpetual garden keep the plant number atleast 2 per SQ foot. I get better yields if I go with 4 per SQ foot and remove a lot of leaves/lower brances by week 3 of bloom when stretch stops. I can still get tad over 1 gram per watt with 2 plants per SQ foot and swicth at 8-10 inches tall. Dont top or train the plants. If height becomes an issue hot them with some Bushmaster and they will stop in their tracks going to full bloom. Keep the tray filled. Have your next batch of plants ready to put in there the day you chop your crop down. At 4 per SQ foot
I like to go 12/12 at 6-8 inches tall and they end up around 18 inches. You'll have a field of colas and a tray that constantly puts out nothing but buds. No wasted veg time in your bloom area is key.

Oh and good genetics is key along with good enviroment. If you dont use CO2 use a lot of fresh air. I use over double the recomended of incoming air, plants love lots of fresh air.

HTH
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I commend you sir... I do the majority of these things IE: transplanting to flower the same day I harvest, booster fan pumping fresh air 24 hrs a day... I do veg my plants much longer than is necessary and sometimes I pay for it by having 6 ft plants next to 2-3 ft plants. Everything is lollipopped but there is still a major canopy unevenness (although i use buckets and what not to level as best i can). So why would you say not to top? I was planning on scrogging my veg tent and topping to train then after transplanting to flower continue with the bucket leveling, no scrog in the flower chamber. Genetics are no problem around here, I've got Vanilla Kush, Grape God, Jack Herer, Tangerine Dream, Frisian Dew, Moby Dick, Critical +, Apollo BX, Kandy Kush, and so many more... all ordered from Attitude. The majority are cloned and if their mothers are winners they get to stick around. I guess the major issue is trying to keep 20 strains all at the same canopy height. Guess I've always been afraid to throw the plants into flowering at only 8 inches or so. Just don't feel like a plant under 2 ft will produce what i'm getting now (although only about 2 ft of my plants are producing high quality dense buds) Pictures will be coming soon, probably today. Thanks and + rep
 
P

Plebscrubber

Active Member
your always gunna struggle to keep an even canopy with so many different strains side by side...

also sounds like your neglecting the veg lighting a bit

sounds like your crowding your flower room so the plants are fighting each other for light?
if you dont want to reduce plant count, get a 1000W - they have more penetration power to light the foliage underneath, plus keep the 2 x 600s
 
M

marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
So I just built a clone zone and this should keep some plants out of the topside for a while to promote side branching. Also just added a screen as a guide of how tall I want my plants to be. I'm thinking about adding 2 more bulbs in the T5 fixture (let me know what you guys think). The footprint of the plants in the flower room is approximately 6 ft X 8 ft with 2 600 watts on light rails. Thinking about combining the 2 600's on one rail and adding a 1000 watt on the right side for the taller plants. Older plants centralized more to the center while the younger plants are on the outskirts. Right now it's 79 degrees 29% humidity. Theres also a booster fan right above the plants on the dryer (they'll be cloned and transplanted to 3 gal smart pots tomorrow) that is drawing in air from the outside 24hrs a day....Pics are Grape God, Jack Herer, Kandy Kush, Chocolope (39 days in) and Sweet Deep Grapefruit (10 wks)
 

Attachments

M

marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
Plebscrubber said:
get a 600W MH for your veg, reduce node spacing/stretching

use the t5 for side lighting, and add the extra 2 bulbs
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I'm not so sure a 600 watt MH is going to fit well into my clone tent. I don't really think node/spacing is that bad. I know seedlings stretch a bit (probably because they're so far from the light) but now that I've got the screen in I'll be keeping the larger veg plants shorter. The light is a bit closer now and will hopefully stop some of that stretch. Also going to add the other two bulbs.
 
D

dlively11

Well-Known Member
marijuana.john.doe said:
I commend you sir... I do the majority of these things IE: transplanting to flower the same day I harvest, booster fan pumping fresh air 24 hrs a day... I do veg my plants much longer than is necessary and sometimes I pay for it by having 6 ft plants next to 2-3 ft plants. Everything is lollipopped but there is still a major canopy unevenness (although i use buckets and what not to level as best i can). So why would you say not to top? I was planning on scrogging my veg tent and topping to train then after transplanting to flower continue with the bucket leveling, no scrog in the flower chamber. Genetics are no problem around here, I've got Vanilla Kush, Grape God, Jack Herer, Tangerine Dream, Frisian Dew, Moby Dick, Critical +, Apollo BX, Kandy Kush, and so many more... all ordered from Attitude. The majority are cloned and if their mothers are winners they get to stick around. I guess the major issue is trying to keep 20 strains all at the same canopy height. Guess I've always been afraid to throw the plants into flowering at only 8 inches or so. Just don't feel like a plant under 2 ft will produce what i'm getting now (although only about 2 ft of my plants are producing high quality dense buds) Pictures will be coming soon, probably today. Thanks and + rep
Click to expand...
Just looked at your pics and the plants look healthy so I'd say your gentics and nutrients are good. By going to the smaller plants as I outlined you can easily double or triple your yields. Just flip the plants when they are looking strong and really starting to grow. For me its from 7-10 inch range. Topping with high numbers just takes up more space and will crowd the other plants even further. Instead work on pruning the plants in veg some and especially the first three weeks of bloom. The side branches etc so that they want to grow into mostly single colas with little to no wasted popcorn buds on the bottom.

Here is a pic of one of my tables with about 7-8 strains in it. I have tables with even more strains with simlilar canopy.




And here is a pic to give an idea what you can accomplish if you really work hard at it. This strain yielded 30 gram per plant dried and cut average with 4 plants per SW foot. Thats comes to 4 lbs off one light or 1.9 Grams per watt without CO2. Takes a LOT of work though but if you only have a table or two this is the way I would go.




http://i41.tinypic.com/5d5pgy.jpg
 
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dlively11

Well-Known Member
Another thing I would highly recomend is switching to ebb and flo hydro. Seems a little intimidating at first but with high numbers it is the EASIEST way to go. I change the water once week but you can go longer so no worrinying about if you need to water or not. No drip lines etc etc. No lockout issues, flushing only takes days before harvest, plants grow quicker. I was in soil like you for 4 years . When I switched to hydro on one table I was really kicking myself for not doing it much much sooner. If you ever go hydro I'll be happy to share my feeding schedule with you and you can print it out. Cost isnt that much easier. Get a used table for aroun $50, hell new ones are only $100 now. Instead of getting a overpriced reservoir from the hydro shop you can get a stock tank from most feed stores. I got 75 gallon tank for $75 good for a 4X4. If you go with a 4X8 you want a 100 gal which are only around $80. Super thick plastic wont leak made to be in a field on a farm for livestock. Table stand you just need 8 cynder blocks 2 on each corner of the table and run 2X4s on top of them. You dont even have to use nails. More solid then any of the trays out here and cheap. $30 pump and a $20 timer and you are all set . Oh and another thing I really like about it is you can use hydroton. Super clean and easy to work with. Plus you can reuse it over and over and over.

FYI those pics above are all in 5 and 6 inch square pots.The 5 inch pots are maybe a half a gallon. Plants still get very big in them.
 
M

marijuana.john.doe

Well-Known Member
dlively11 said:
Another thing I would highly recomend is switching to ebb and flo hydro. Seems a little intimidating at first but with high numbers it is the EASIEST way to go. I change the water once week but you can go longer so no worrinying about if you need to water or not. No drip lines etc etc. No lockout issues, flushing only takes days before harvest, plants grow quicker. I was in soil like you for 4 years . When I switched to hydro on one table I was really kicking myself for not doing it much much sooner. If you ever go hydro I'll be happy to share my feeding schedule with you and you can print it out. Cost isnt that much easier. Get a used table for aroun $50, hell new ones are only $100 now. Instead of getting a overpriced reservoir from the hydro shop you can get a stock tank from most feed stores. I got 75 gallon tank for $75 good for a 4X4. If you go with a 4X8 you want a 100 gal which are only around $80. Super thick plastic wont leak made to be in a field on a farm for livestock. Table stand you just need 8 cynder blocks 2 on each corner of the table and run 2X4s on top of them. You dont even have to use nails. More solid then any of the trays out here and cheap. $30 pump and a $20 timer and you are all set . Oh and another thing I really like about it is you can use hydroton. Super clean and easy to work with. Plus you can reuse it over and over and over.

FYI those pics above are all in 5 and 6 inch square pots.The 5 inch pots are maybe a half a gallon. Plants still get very big in them.
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Hey man thank you so much for the taking the time to respond to my post. For now I will certainly be shortening up those plants and try to get about 4 colas from each. Will continue lollipopping but judging from what you say I should just go ahead and chop anything that's not going to produce larger buds (my current plants are about to receive more bottom branch chopping, correct me if i'm wrong). As you can see by my new clone area i'm moving in the direction of hydro, less back breaking work for sure. I'll be doing some more research into Ebb and Flo but am currently going to stick with soil, need to use up what i've got.

So here are my concerns. I've got a number of strains and jacking them all into a single system seems like a risky move with height and what not. I also run a perpetual garden chopping about 15 plants a month. Can I run perpetually with a hydro set up like this? Can I just pick up a plant from it's slot in the veg tent and drop it right into an opening in the flower room? If I could DRAG AND DROP that would make me change over tomorrow. Ok last question. So you're saying it's ok to top these girls within the first three weeks of flower? So I put them in, they stretch, and I top as they stretch to create more shoots and keep them low? Either way thanks for the free education + rep for being a pimp!
 
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