If Medicare is better than private insurance...

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
For one, it will diminish collective bargaining power. You said you like your private insurance. Well, what if we had a medicare for who want it as you suggest. Can we include stipulations that individuals such as yourself cannot come into medicare when your private insurance fucks you over? You didn't pay into the system and therefore should be banned. I view this similarly to having the option for social security. If you could opt of of social security and do your own private investing with money, but you later lost your money and wanted to reap any benefits of social security.
There is a whole lot of what-if in this diatribe. What if my aunt had balls? Would she be my uncle?

If you want big tax hikes, vote accordingly.

If Bernie, for the first time ever, accomplishes something of value, I will acknowledge it and give credit where it's due. I might even praise and support him if he does. Nobody is perfect and most people are redeemable.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
I don't want the government in my life at all either. They never helped anyone. Just about every employer has decent healthcare plans, so find a job. I really don't see how this is so complicated. Universal health care will never work in this country until people start taking care of themselves. Not enough healthy people to pay for the rest. It's a mathematical fact.

And I'm all for education reform. That's the biggest thing this country needs. Cut out college sports funding, waste of money. Cut out useless degrees like gender studies, you won't get a job with that. No more federal loans for college either. It should be the responsibility of the college which will increase competition to lower their tuition. When big daddy government just hands out money to anyone, colleges can make their own price, they know they'll get paid.
You're clearly dehydrated.
 

xmatox

Well-Known Member
I don't want the government in my life at all either. They never helped anyone. Just about every employer has decent healthcare plans, so find a job. I really don't see how this is so complicated. Universal health care will never work in this country until people start taking care of themselves. Not enough healthy people to pay for the rest. It's a mathematical fact.

And I'm all for education reform. That's the biggest thing this country needs. Cut out college sports funding, waste of money. Cut out useless degrees like gender studies, you won't get a job with that. No more federal loans for college either. It should be the responsibility of the college which will increase competition to lower their tuition. When big daddy government just hands out money to anyone, colleges can make their own price, they know they'll get paid.
We already pay for the unhealthy. Wtf, the government has helped plenty. Furthermore, You are not taking into consideration the many who work for themselves. What do they do? I shouldn't have to worry that if I switch jobs, or lose my job, I will lose my insurance. We're better than this.
 

ismann

Well-Known Member
We already pay for the unhealthy. Wtf, the government has helped plenty. Furthermore, You are not taking into consideration the many who work for themselves. What do they do? I shouldn't have to worry that if I switch jobs, or lose my job, I will lose my insurance. We're better than this.
If you work for yourself then why should someone else have to pay for your healthcare? It makes zero sense. One major benefit for working with an employer is health care. You waive that when you decide to work for yourself. Why is it the federal government's responsibility to take care of you? Just for having a SS#? It isn't how life works, man.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
ok I'll play nice:

The defense budget is now upwards of 700 billion dollars annually and there's also a "black budget" of around 400 billion. I could be off but the total is definitely under 1.3 trillion dollars a year. This should be cut drastically but even if we completely do away with the military AND repeal the Trump tax cuts, there still wouldn't be enough money for single-payer unless taxes go up by a lot for everyone, not with current healthcare costs.
We already spend more on our failed health care than countries with single pay do, why do you assume it would cost more? I've skimmed articles that say it would cost a lot less in the long run.
 

ismann

Well-Known Member
Now if the states want to do some type of universal coverage, I'm all for it. States should do what they want. But at the federal level it makes no sense.
 

xmatox

Well-Known Member
If you work for yourself then why should someone else have to pay for your healthcare? It makes zero sense. One major benefit for working with an employer is health care. You waive that when you decide to work for yourself. Why is it the federal government's responsibility to take care of you? Just for having a SS#? It isn't how life works, man.
If I don't work for an employer, I don't get rewarded with the collective bargaining that a company has. I will be by myself. Furthermore, my rate will be much higher than if my employer matched me. I do not agree with allowing states to do there own health care coverage without be forced to do so. The Republicans have proven through Obamacare they cannot be trusted to do the right thing for the poor and most vulnerable in their states.
 

ismann

Well-Known Member
If I don't work for an employer, I don't get rewarded with the collective bargaining that a company has. I will be by myself. Furthermore, my rate will be much higher than if my employer matched me. I do not agree with allowing states to do there own health care coverage without be forced to do so. The Republicans have proven through Obamacare they cannot be trusted to do the right thing for the poor and most vulnerable in their states.
But you choose to be by yourself. I don't see how it is anyone else's problem.

That's the beauty of having states' rights. If Republicans screw their people, they can move to a state that has better healthcare. Then they lose tax income. Unless of course all of those people don't work. Then there is a larger, underlying issue which has nothing to do with healthcare itself. The problem lies in why those people can't find work.
 

xmatox

Well-Known Member
But you choose to be by yourself. I don't see how it is anyone else's problem.

That's the beauty of having states' rights. If Republicans screw their people, they can move to a state that has better healthcare. Then they lose tax income. Unless of course all of those people don't work. Then there is a larger, underlying issue which has nothing to do with healthcare itself. The problem lies in why those people can't find work.
Your comment punishes small business owners.
Why can't we pay for M4A if it's cheaper than what we currently pay for now?
Agreed. Why pay for something that is more money and covers less overall?
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Yet, in your mind leaving people underinsured and Americans to go bankrupt is not reprehensible.
You have trouble with facts and think Bernie is useful, yet you are telling me what is in my mind.

You're a disrespectful little person. Medicare for all who want it is what I'm supporting. You have argued against every position but the one I'm arguing and called strawman, so add hypocrite to my rebuke.

If you want to debate, make smarter comments.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
We already spend more on our failed health care than countries with single pay do, why do you assume it would cost more? I've skimmed articles that say it would cost a lot less in the long run.
Yet you're replying to me without understanding my position. Read the thread before you reply.
 

xmatox

Well-Known Member
You have trouble with facts and think Bernie is useful, yet you are telling me what is in my mind.

You're a disrespectful little person. Medicare for all who want it is what I'm supporting. You have argued against every position but the one I'm arguing and called strawman, so add hypocrite to my rebuke.

If you want to debate, make smarter comments.
You saying Bernie is useless doesn't make it so. I literally gave you what you requested, links to supporting evidence, and you didn't even read them. You clearly don't know what a strawman is, as that's exactly what your argument presented. Again, who do you support? If you can't even tell us who you support then wtf are you doing here?
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
You saying Bernie is useless doesn't make it so. I literally gave you what you requested, links to supporting evidence, and you didn't even read them. You clearly don't know what a strawman is, as that's exactly what your argument presented. Again, who do you support? If you can't even tell us who you support then wtf are you doing here?
I read every one of them. Most, I have seen before. I even changed my position to reject the higher end estimates.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
If it's a better value why is it mandatory?
Because if it weren't, the wealthy/healthy people needed to subsidize it would simply continue to buy private insurance and the public healthcare system would quickly become overburdened and insolvent

Honest question, do you understand the concept of insurance? How it works with car insurance for example? Safe drivers subsidize the accidents people have. How far do you think an auto insurance company would get if people who have never been in an accident were not required by law to buy insurance?

If M4A was not mandatory, you yourself have admitted you would continue to buy private insurance, because you have the luxury of being able to afford it. Millions of Americans unfortunately do not have that luxury.


If it's cheaper than what we pay for now, why won't we be able to pay for M4A?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
But you choose to be by yourself. I don't see how it is anyone else's problem.

That's the beauty of having states' rights. If Republicans screw their people, they can move to a state that has better healthcare. Then they lose tax income. Unless of course all of those people don't work. Then there is a larger, underlying issue which has nothing to do with healthcare itself. The problem lies in why those people can't find work.
Republican states can’t pay their bills anyway so liberal states have to do it for them so that argument is doa too
 
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