LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

Undercover Cop said:
It has very poor spectrum for flowering, but has such an intense output that the plants can scavenge enough usable light to thrive, but its less than ideal. Body builders are big and appear to be very healthy, but are known for having chronic health issues and suffering later in life from from a lifetime of abuse. Sure HPS will work, and work well, but a proper T5PAR spectrum will more closely produce the optimal blend of light for photosynthesis. And if you work to keep your tops as close as possible to the tubes, using the inverse square law, you can actually get MORE intense light than HID when you consider the distances needed to prevent heat stress under HIDs. I hear lots of people keeping them 12-18+" from the tops to blend the spectrum... Blend the tube assortment and get em down low. People complain about stretch when starting flower, its because the plants are searching for the light they really want when theyre switched to HPS like most people do, not finding it and stretching. No stretch under PAR T5
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Also when Myles says he finds the quality the same (since it is clear he is not comparing apples to apples) my guess is he is smoking a lot more bud to achieve the same high- if that is even possible.
 
Myles check this out: side by side whole plants https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/508854-4-kessil-h350-600w-hid.html
 
I've been thinking. When you look at the photosynthesis spectral absorption graph, plants utilize the far red much more than the near. Such as, they use 660nm much more than the 630nm. This being said, if you only had one red wavelength to choose from could you get away with less 660nm than 630nm and still get the same results? If so, it might make sense why I have been having better results with the floras over the reds. I've also been pondering getting one of those Kessil Far Red lamps to add to my T5 grow next time. Sure would be an interesting addition to the mix.
 
PetFlora said:
Also when Myles says he finds the quality the same (since it is clear he is not comparing apples to apples) my guess is he is smoking a lot more bud to achieve the same high- if that is even possible.
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hhahahah i smoke maybe 1/4 of a gram if that to get as high as I've ever been. If it can be stronger, it sure as hell don't need to be.


I aint a cancer patient goin thru chemo either, I smoke recreationally.
 
PetFlora said:
Wait. So you are saying you added IR to your T5 grow and still preferred your hps + ir bud?
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nope, this whole convo started with me saying I dont believe the IRs produce bud that is in any way shape or form better than HPS with a few lil UV bulbs in with it. Never said I preferred one or the other but since I did mention me sellin my HPS for t5s, I'd say the preference is the other way due mainly to less heat and more even light distribution with flouro tubes. i was growing in a third floor attic space that had temp issues with HPS running even when aircooled. T5s still put out some moderate heat but it was more manageable
 
I purchased some Sylvania Gro-Lux T5 HO to try out from overseas. I have to say they put out a real nice color. Probably a good veg bulb. Here is a photo of the Sylvania Gro-Lux sitting next to a Flora Sun and a Coral Wave.

Photo is as follows from left to right,

Coral Wave, Flora Sun, Sylvania Gro-Lux,
new bulb.jpg
 
Hey guys... I picked up a couple Flora Suns and an add-on fixture to add two bulbs to my setup as well. And since I haven't set up for the new batch yet, I figured I would take a "Bulb-Stock" and see what I had... so I pulled everything, wiped down all the bulbs, and am plotting my next arrangement for flowering under T5's.

Here's my current proposed line-up for flowering:

2x Zoo Med Flora Suns
2x Wavepoint Coral Waves
2x UVL Red Life/Sun
2x Fiji Purp
1x UVL Super Actinic
1x UVL 75.25

In the two last slots, I'm torn between which blues to supplement with... I could use the ones mentioned or I have a pair of 454's... or a combination thereof...

I've been comparing the charts for the 454, 75/25, and Super Actinic, but am finding it hard to say which would be more ideal than the other, given the other bulbs already included. It seems like sticking with what I had is ideal, but I have a hard time keeping track of all this. Anybody got thoughts, feel free to chime in. This stuff makes my head hurt.

Also wondering if the fiji purps are worthwhile or if I'd be better off with the 454's in there... did we ever get a real chart made for the fiji purps? I know someone was doing some testing.
 
AltarNation said:
Hey guys... I picked up a couple Flora Suns and an add-on fixture to add two bulbs to my setup as well. And since I haven't set up for the new batch yet, I figured I would take a "Bulb-Stock" and see what I had... so I pulled everything, wiped down all the bulbs, and am plotting my next arrangement for flowering under T5's.

Here's my current proposed line-up for flowering:

2x Zoo Med Flora Suns
2x Wavepoint Coral Waves
2x UVL Red Life/Sun
2x Fiji Purp
1x UVL Super Actinic
1x UVL 75.25

In the two last slots, I'm torn between which blues to supplement with... I could use the ones mentioned or I have a pair of 454's... or a combination thereof...

I've been comparing the charts for the 454, 75/25, and Super Actinic, but am finding it hard to say which would be more ideal than the other, given the other bulbs already included. It seems like sticking with what I had is ideal, but I have a hard time keeping track of all this. Anybody got thoughts, feel free to chime in. This stuff makes my head hurt.

Also wondering if the fiji purps are worthwhile or if I'd be better off with the 454's in there... did we ever get a real chart made for the fiji purps? I know someone was doing some testing.
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Imho, I have no desires for the Fijis anymore, BlueB got the SPD made... big spike at 610nm and not much more, garbage tri-band bulb, I would go with a pure 420-460 and use other bulbs with proven SPDs to fill in the reds.
 
Undercover Cop said:
Imho, I have no desires for the Fijis anymore, BlueB got the SPD made... big spike at 610nm and not much more, garbage tri-band bulb, I would go with a pure 420-460 and use other bulbs with proven SPDs to fill in the reds.
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Thanks for your reply UC...

Okay, so then you'd say go with the two 454's in place of the fijis? Or would I be better off dropping 6400k blooms in there instead? Just trying to work with what I've got on hand... :) I'm a little worried that if I put the two 454's in I'm going to be too blue-heavy and not have enough red in my mix...?
 
Oh btw, these lights would qualify as a pet product right? For use w fish/reptiles etc. In the US there are no "truth in advertising" laws like for pet or garden products. As far as ingredients in your nutes, and light from your bulbs (ie SPDs) mfgs can say anything they want, can legally lie through their teeth with no requirements to prove their claims ("organic" "660nm" etc) buyer beware, theres no FDA to regulate if its not for human consumption.
 
AltarNation said:
Hey guys... I picked up a couple Flora Suns and an add-on fixture to add two bulbs to my setup as well. And since I haven't set up for the new batch yet, I figured I would take a "Bulb-Stock" and see what I had... so I pulled everything, wiped down all the bulbs, and am plotting my next arrangement for flowering under T5's.

Here's my current proposed line-up for flowering:

2x Zoo Med Flora Suns
2x Wavepoint Coral Waves
2x UVL Red Life/Sun
2x Fiji Purp
1x UVL Super Actinic
1x UVL 75.25

In the two last slots, I'm torn between which blues to supplement with... I could use the ones mentioned or I have a pair of 454's... or a combination thereof...

I've been comparing the charts for the 454, 75/25, and Super Actinic, but am finding it hard to say which would be more ideal than the other, given the other bulbs already included. It seems like sticking with what I had is ideal, but I have a hard time keeping track of all this. Anybody got thoughts, feel free to chime in. This stuff makes my head hurt.

Also wondering if the fiji purps are worthwhile or if I'd be better off with the 454's in there... did we ever get a real chart made for the fiji purps? I know someone was doing some testing.
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You got way more blue than red in your mix. I'm not saying it wouldn't work because it might. I would do at least 4 Floras. The Fiji graph has been done. Flip back a few pages :). It covers the entire blue spectrum and has a 6% red 610nm spike. So very little red, but it is something. 6 Flora Sun and 2 Giesemann Actinic Plus would probably work. I haven't been having good results with the Red Suns for some reason unknown, but they are working for most people.
 
AltarNation said:
Okay, so then you'd say go with the two 454's in place of the fijis? Or would I be better off dropping 6400k blooms in there instead? Just trying to work with what I've got on hand... :)
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Prob 2 454s and watch the results, as long as you have enough PAR red in there otherwise. I think the fijis are like a 6500k that is heavy in the 610, they may be better than a generic grow bulb but not by much. The 454s won't be wasting energy on the 554 and 610 spikes
 
BlueB said:
You got way more blue than red in your mix. I'm not saying it wouldn't work because it might. I would do at least 4 Floras. The Fiji graph has been done. Flip back a few pages :). The Fiji is a good bulb. It covers the entire blue spectrum and has a 6% red 630nm spike. So very little red, but it is something. 6 Flora Sun and 2 Fiji Purple would probably work. I haven't been having good results with the Red Suns for some reason unknown, but they are working for most people.
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Hm... Well, my last mix was basically the same thing minus the two flora suns and I got decent results out of it... not as much bud growth as I'd hoped though, that's why I bought the flora suns to mess with the mix more.

I am definitely worried about being too far into the blue end of things and not enough red.

I opted to order two more Flora Suns... I'll put the 454's in for now and then switch to the flora suns when they come I guess... so my final line up would be:

4x Flora Sun
2x Coral Wave
2x Red Sun
1x 75.25
1x Super Actinic.

I hope that's enough red.
 
Red suns, then the assortment of grow bulbs (aqua medic plant grow, giessemann aqua flora, flora sun, aquatic life roseate, freshwater pink etc) which are all triband bulbs and emit blue/green also. without redsuns, it will be almost impossible NOT to be blue heavy.
 
AltarNation said:
mmm. Makes sense. I am weary to order more Red Suns after losing two of them... but maybe I should find some more...
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Me too man, still waiting for my replacements...since Dec12!!!! Back ordered everywhere! Theyre so unique tho.

I like the line up you posted, i'd replace the 75.25 with the 454 tho (75.25s have lots of green that is already covered in the flora suns) otherwise it sounds pretty good :)
 
Undercover Cop said:
Me too man, still waiting for my replacements...since Dec12!!!! Back ordered everywhere! Theyre so unique tho
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Haha, at least I am not alone on that one.

The flora suns are soooo cheap... i'll probably stick with what I got for now, plus the two new flora suns, and hope for the best.

I might buy a couple more red suns later but it will kind of complicate things... I just added two new tube slots with retrofitted sockets to the middle of my T5 unit where the ballast box is... but they have no reflectors, so I've got two internal-reflector bulbs in those slots now. (the 75.25 and the Super Actinic) so I guess if I brought more Red Suns into the picture I'd either have to take some of the Flora Suns back out or a coral wave... so I'll probably hold off for now and see how this goes for this run, with the 4x flora suns...
 
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