LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
kpmarine said:
LED's!?!? LED's?!?! Stands for "Light Emitting Devil"!!! Did you not hear?!?! :p (Just teasing, I'm pretty new here, but this has rapidly become one of my go-to threads.) 2 8-bulb 48" T5's and the corresponding veg and flower bulbs. I have a GDP, ATF, and a Romulan just waiting for them. The Rom and GDP are both 17"+, just waiting for all the light to get here in the next couple days.
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what spectrum of tubes did you get?
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Read this and couldn't help but think that maybe this is the reason some of you are having problems with your UVL Red Sun bulbs? I know that no one is using VHO fixtures but if the bulbs aren't being cooled enough there can be a big drop in your spectrum, hence the orange. The red phosphor will burn out quickly. I'm not sure if all UVL T5 bulbs are rated to be used with VHO or what(which seems like it would make the bulbs even more stable at HO wattages), but maybe the heat is contributing to the failures?
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This is from some other aquarium website;

Standard wattage T5 lamps should fire fine in a high output fixture. If you chose to do this I would make sure the fixture is ventilated with forced air ie fans. T5 lamps are limited in the amount of phosphor that can be used in each lamp by the diameter of the lamp. Heat causes the phosphors to deteriorate. The higher the temperature the lamps experience the faster the phosphors will deteriorate. I've seen HO T5 lamps run at VHO output (54 watt lamps run at 85 watts) dramatically shift in spectrum in as little as two months without forced air ventilation.

Regards,
George
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/41511-can-regular-t5-bulbs-used-t5ho-fixtures.html
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
very goood info, so a bulbs life can essentially be extended by keeping them cooler. wonder how much longer the bulb would perform at optimum light quality with different running temps. like if i keep my bulbs ten degrees cooler, would they last say 15% longer? just an example but im quite curious now!
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member

Jeff (UVL) says they have 99% QC. Of course I laid it out that we would want assurance that all our defective Red Lifes would be replaced (my primary reason for suggesting we give UVL the shot). Months back, Scott from Aquarium Specialty suspected the problem had to do with the adhesive used on that run of end caps. That should be a simple solution.

I put my plant into 48 hrs darkness, and gave the top bud a soft squeeze late yesterday. Tight as can be
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Undercover Cop said:
Damn, no reason to get so defensive, or to remove posts/pics... All info is good info, but when I check my phone or comp for the latest posts and newest developments with T5s, and its page after page of led posts, I start to wonder if maybe we've gotten off track. Sure, share useful info, please, we all want to know more about PAR growing. But again there are tons of other threads for LED related discussions. Sure, share your anecdotal stories of T5 vs LED or PAR or whatever, but consolidate them so its not pages and pages. Maybe I'm being a crusty old fuck, but really, I have no interest in LEDs (don't have disposable income for one). And I'm NOT convinced that you can't perfect the spectrum without LED. Ill never discourage anyone from trying to improve their grow, I know Ill never stop trying. And its not my thread to control, but without Prof here to say exactly what path he wants to take his thread, I vote to keep it on track.
Please share every damn T5 bud pic you take (everyone loves bud porn, and will show PROOF of the concept for doubters) that's why I love it here so much... major boner for T5 bud porn! But I also know where to go to discuss LED, HID or cfls.
Sharing your experience using both is fine, whatever, post the LA county yellow pages for all I care, not my thread. I just think back two weeks ago when we were learning something new every day. Those that are just discovering the thread are gonna miss out on that
Theyre not gonna read thru hundreds of pages to get to the good stuff, they'll read the first page, then skip to the last page and learn all about LEDs.

does anyone really think they've perfected their spectrum/bulb selection, nowhere else to go? And the ONLY option is LEDs? Im sure there are places for better info about LEDs than the T5 thread.

Ok, I'm done, I feel like a grumbly old asshole now for trying to salvage the thread that taught me so much. I just want it to stay in its current format, available for so many other people to use as a reference in their own grow.

Hate me or love me, I love my T5s and this is the only place online with such a concentration of knowledge... RIU T5 think tank! Lets keep it pure
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Although I am not in total agreement, it was your original rant that got me to think, we probably wouldn't be discussing LEDs, IF, we had a 660, which morphed into maybe we can get a T5 mfg to produce one. So IMWOT, the LED conversation played an important role, but I hear you when the LED discussion is outside 660, as every other nm range is covered.

ASAP, we need enough people to pony up for a minimum run of 288 660s. I do not expect them to run samples for a variety of reasons, only one of which is production cost for a few samples of a specialty item. How would that help us? We would need 30-90 days to flesh them out, and what if the few had grow problems, and what if... I doubt seriously they would agree to wait. So let's put our money where our science is, and get this thing moving. As I mentioned, once I have verbal commitment I will shop the idea to other T5 mfgs.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
Read this and couldn't help but think that maybe this is the reason some of you are having problems with your UVL Red Sun bulbs? I know that no one is using VHO fixtures but if the bulbs aren't being cooled enough there can be a big drop in your spectrum, hence the orange. The red phosphor will burn out quickly. I'm not sure if all UVL T5 bulbs are rated to be used with VHO or what(which seems like it would make the bulbs even more stable at HO wattages), but maybe the heat is contributing to the failures?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from some other aquarium website;

Standard wattage T5 lamps should fire fine in a high output fixture. If you chose to do this I would make sure the fixture is ventilated with forced air ie fans. T5 lamps are limited in the amount of phosphor that can be used in each lamp by the diameter of the lamp. Heat causes the phosphors to deteriorate. The higher the temperature the lamps experience the faster the phosphors will deteriorate. I've seen HO T5 lamps run at VHO output (54 watt lamps run at 85 watts) dramatically shift in spectrum in as little as two months without forced air ventilation.

Regards,
George
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/41511-can-regular-t5-bulbs-used-t5ho-fixtures.html
Click to expand...
My UVL Red Lifes/Suns were/are in a Bad Boy (good ventilation),with no top over fixture and lots of air space above. I'm pretty sure the problem is/was the interface point of end caps and glass. I have 3 other mfg bulbs in there with no issues.
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
I'm just gonna post this here too, you can do the math to figure out why,

I just added 2 Kessil h150 REDs to my T5 grow to see if it will boost flowering. It's too early to tell as of yet, but I wanted to point out another grow journal that is only utilizing 60w of LED lighting and having outstanding results. He is running a DIY LED light that has 28 LEDs, 12 which are 660nm and 18 which are 2700K white. The white LEDs contain enough blue 460nm and also complete the spectrum. From what I can tell, he's getting better results than anyone I've ever seen and only using those 2 types of LEDs.

It's making me reconsider what T5s I'm going to use in my next T5 grow and also for wavelengths when I finally make the switch to LED as a sole source of lighting. Instead of having to deal with many LED wavelengths, it looks like it's potentially much better to just use 2700K white LEDs combined with 660nm LEDs.

Just as a side note, I've tried doing a 50/50 blend of 660nm T5 bulbs with full spectrum white T5s with some pretty amazing results. I got an extreme acceleration in growth rate and also a major increase in fan leaf size, but also at the same time some pretty major stretching. I've now added one pure blue bulb to that mixture and it seems to have halted the stretch.

Here is the journal where the grower is using 12, 660nm and 16, 2700K white(full spectrum) LEDs only, with max watt output at 60w.
https://www.opengrow.com/topic/44537...t/page__st__20

This is why I was saying DON'T THROW OUT YOUR FULL SPECTRUM T5's QUITE YET! There is something about having the whole spectrum in there that the plants love. It makes sense, after all plants have only been growing under full spectrum light for the last 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.....n years right?

Here is what his buds look like under the 50% RED 660nm and 50% 2700K WHITE(Full spectrum), really really nice,

 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Great news. Jeff has actually been working on a 660. I think it's safe to say it has now moved to the top of his to-do list. And yes, he is up to provide some free prototype bulbs. Time to suck up guys :D
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
After playing with it and observing, I decided to take the Kessil LEDs out of my T5 grow, since they are more of a "spot light" they do not blend well with the T5s. As I stated earlier(before being jumped on) I think these Kessil spot lights would be a better addition to a CMH or MH, since they are all a single point light source, and all penetrate the canopy really well.

Flora, I'm totally down to buy 50 of the 660nm tubes. Just give me a wholesale price so I know what I'm dealing with here. If Jeff ever gets a sample done, make sure to have him do a spectral analysis and make sure to post it here.
 
F

falcon223

Active Member
Ok I had to pop some seeds under my T5. So this the first time I tryed to go seed to full plant under 12/12. I have seen other grows
dun this way and they looked good. I dont have but 1 coal wave, and 1 red sun , that is kinda orang.

Anyway I got 3 femails already. And it is only been 3 weeks or 4.



 
Undercover Cop

Undercover Cop

Active Member
If anyone is reading though this thread and is kinda new and havent really got a full grasp on the whole idea behind PAR specific Fluoros, I just spend about 4 hours total on 3 posts in the Club T5 thread for someone new who is starting off and was asking about bulb choice. Basically broke down most of the basics for newbies, explaining phosphors and PAR and all that. I know the regulars here are well versed in all that jazz, but if someone is new and cruising through, and needs a beginners course before going all in, check out these posts on the Club T5 thread. I didnt want to just Copy/Paste it all here cuz its mostly stuff we all know, but someone may have discovered this thread and not had the patience to read thru a few thousand posts.

Anyway, T5 and PAR growing for beginners... (was in response to others questions so they're adressing them)

Undercover Cop said:
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Undercover Cop said:
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Undercover Cop said:
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PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
After playing with it and observing, I decided to take the Kessil LEDs out of my T5 grow, since they are more of a "spot light" they do not blend well with the T5s. As I stated earlier(before being jumped on) I think these Kessil spot lights would be a better addition to a CMH or MH, since they are all a single point light source, and all penetrate the canopy really well.

Flora, I'm totally down to buy 50 of the 660nm tubes. Just give me a wholesale price so I know what I'm dealing with here. If Jeff ever gets a sample done, make sure to have him do a spectral analysis and make sure to post it here.
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I will run it by all you guys before finalizing anything. You are mos def on my short list for some prototypes!
 
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