Let's Debate

Hitler DID belive in Aliens, Did believe the true human roots were aryan. So hitler DID Believe, just diddnt say it was a God telling him todo good.. and I know for a fact Atheism has not caused more loss of life than RELIGION.. maybe if you wanna cut it down to a TIME LINE.. or certain Years.. but in the HISTORY OF MAN.. More deaths due to beliefs and religions.. than for no reason.

olylifter420 said:

if i remember properly, hitler was not a religious type, some even go as far to say that he was an atheist, which i truly believe he was... what other thing can make you gain so much hatred for another person and religion that you decide to take over a country(germany) and use its military power to kill more then 6 million jews millions of other non jewish people... oh and the red army, i highly doubt that they were driven by God, they were driven by a dictator who cared nothing for human life and killed over 15 million people themselves... stalin was not a religious type either, SO IT IS SAFE TO SAY that he was atheist as well...


so, to counter you statement, i believe there has been more deaths at the hands of atheists then at the hands of religious people.

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RawBudzski said:

No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion.
Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit.

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Yes, I am giving you the correct definition. It's you who are using the wrong term

RawBudzski said:

But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners..

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"All the front runners" and "Religion as a whole" are two different things entirely. Have a look at this example:


Mcdonalds and Burger King are cheap, and kinda gross

Where "Mcdonalds and Burger King" are the "front runners"


All restaurants are cheap, and kinda gross

And "Restaurants" are "religion"

RawBudzski said:

No your giving me the technical definition and idea of religion. your right but your not on the same page as what we speak of.. When we say religion we mean Established religions that have hardcore beliefs and tendencies. Yes their are tons of others who are religious in their own way, But RELIGION as a whole, all the Front Runners.. Have alot more Issues than you seem to give credit. Do you not agree that Religions have done if not as much evil as they have done good? not talking on a personal person to person basis. I know it may work for some, I know some know how to handle it. Im talking about the pastor on your tv screen asking for donations. Thats religion

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You're talking about Organized religion, not religion. And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about Christianity. And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by fundamentalism.

Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.

MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.

why do people fail to see alchemy for what it was... it was not related to Christianity... but put a major halt on chemistry work

karri0n said:

You're talking about Organized religion, not religion. And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about Christianity. And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by fundamentalism.

Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.

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really, and these crusades, where did you read about them?

RawBudzski said:

MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.

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You are correct, but I still dont think we can separate them, legit or not, Morally correct or not. They call themselves religions. and yes im speaking more towards the past than now days, cause Yes of course religious groups do true good and help people.. im just saying their are just as many people if not more abusing religion for all the wrong reasons.. thus without separating the two different ppl, I would like to go back to the beginning argument that Science and the search for intelligence / truth. Should if not will help feed that need better than religion will. I think its two different types of knowledge, one makes you more spiritual and feel good maybe, another may simply answer some of your questions in life, even if its as dumbed down as slow down when driving in the rain cause theirs less friction.. both science and religion has its place. But when ppl feel they must Choose 1 to live by causes issues.. and Let me say, I do not think all humans are Equal. maybe in the eyes of god. but on this planet, you cannot regard all humans as being able to withstand the same things, stresses, pain. So in my judgement I may be wrong by saying I do believe tribal people, more primitive people who rely and base their life on religion shouldn't be in charge.. nothing wrong with having their opinion.. but they shouldn't be able to lead other people down such a nieve path. Us humans are here to evolve and get past our issues.. and dragging religion along like its the answer only holds us back.

karri0n said:

You're talking about Organized religion, not religion. And in actuality, you're pretty much talking about Christianity. And these problems you are talking about are problems caused by fundamentalism.

Now, whether or not the Christian church has done more harm than good is quite difficult to quantify. On the one hand, there have been many deaths, political strife, and societal, medical, and scientific setbacks due to Christian rule. On the other hand, from the same sources, there have been many technological innovations, positive societal impacts, and a great deal of unity that otherwise would not have been.

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im not going to tell you if you dunno what the crusades are. you were absent that day in 5th grade? dude if you dont know about the crusades you need to learn more about your own religion

olylifter420 said:

really, and these crusades, where did you read about them?

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RawBudzski said:

MILLIONS died in the Crusades led by Christians. and their were like 11 crusades. Its well accepted belief that their have been more Human Deaths due to belief / religion since it began than All other causes, some even say AIDS, HIV, HOMICIDE, SUICIDE combined. interesting to read, look it up. Remember this is a big planet, and alot of time has passed.

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You are making this up, or are misinformed. It's not a well accepted belief at all that religion has caused more death than any other cause. Starvation, famine, plague, disease, have and still do cause more death than anything else. Even the "millions" projected in the case of the crusades has been shown to be quite exaggerated. There are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. If 10 million were killed in the crusades(they werent), that's hardly a drop in the bucket.

olylifter420 said:

why do people fail to see alchemy for what it was... it was not related to Christianity... but put a major halt on chemistry work

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I'm not talking about Alchemy. I'm talking about the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome when all of the modern technology, writing, art, and science was burned to the ground and lost to the annals of history.

dude, i just want to know where you read about them? i never said i dont about the crusades, please EXPLAIN them to me, did I?

where did you read of them? too scared to answer the question?

RawBudzski said:

im not going to tell you if you dunno what the crusades are. you were absent that day in 5th grade? dude if you dont know about the crusades you need to learn more about your own religion

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i did not say starvation, or any of thoes and you look it up please.. It is WELL argued that religion has CAUSED more Loss of Life than any other REASONS humans killed humans.. your thinking to hard and just take it for what it is.. If you have never heard that, than im sure youve never looked it up.. But yes when it comes to Humans causing Human Loss... Religion is ahead.

karri0n said:

You are making this up, or are misinformed. It's not a well accepted belief at all that religion has caused more death than any other cause. Starvation, famine, plague, disease, have and still do cause more death than anything else. Even the "millions" projected in the case of the crusades has been shown to be quite exaggerated. There are nearly 7 billion people on this planet. If 10 million were killed in the crusades(they werent), that's hardly a drop in the bucket.

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yes, then we must include the works of the all the ancient Native Indian tribes as well... most of their documentation work was burned by the stupid asses who wanted to conquer them and exploit them for what they knew and what they had.

karri0n said:

I'm not talking about Alchemy. I'm talking about the Dark Ages after the fall of Rome when all of the modern technology, writing, art, and science was burned to the ground and lost to the annals of history.

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where is this magical research you are reading, please post a link to confirm?

RawBudzski said:

i did not say starvation, or any of thoes and you look it up please.. It is WELL argued that religion has CAUSED more Loss of Life than any other REASONS humans killed humans.. your thinking to hard and just take it for what it is.. If you have never heard that, than im sure youve never looked it up.. But yes when it comes to Humans causing Human Loss... Religion is ahead.

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I think it was christians who wiped them out.. or were the 1st settlers all atheists. you said ancient tho, not sure how far back your going lol

olylifter420 said:

yes, then we must include the works of the all the ancient Native Indian tribes as well... most of their documentation work was burned by the stupid asses who wanted to conquer them and exploit them for what they knew and what they had.

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christians? are you serious? dude, go read up on history before you make such assumptions...

RawBudzski said:

I think it was christians who wiped them out.. or were the 1st settlers all atheists.

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Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million
1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million
1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million
1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million
1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million
1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million
1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million
1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million
September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

a few time lines. now try to expand your mind and Think about the ENTIRE history of religion and whats gone on. you guys do your own homework im not a tutor anymore

RawBudzski said:

Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million
1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million
1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million
1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million
1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million
1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million
1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million
1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million
September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

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sorry not just Religions but Beliefs too.. Beliefs / Religions hand in hand caused these deaths

oh and if your planning on bringing up the fact some may be communist atheists.. doesnt count cause they were not slicing their own wrists .. they were killing OTHER ppl due to their BELIEFS / RELIGIONS.. incase you diddnt understand but the article explains it in depth

it is clear with those stats to say that atheism has been the leading cause of deaths.. not religion or Christianity... thank you

RawBudzski said:

Deaths caused by non-Christians: ill find the full article but this was giving an example... the full article shows how Christianity is not the fore runner in causes of deaths but when you add in christianity & all the other religions.. These numbers are conservative and add up to around 90 million ppl dead due to religion.. and look .. thats only a few religions

184-205 – Yellow Scarves Rebellion (Taoists) – China – 7 million
1300s-1521 – Human Sacrifices (Aztecs) – Mexico – 1 million
1855-1877 – Panthay Rebellion (Muslims) – China – 12 million
1932-1933 – Holodomor (communist atheists) – Ukraine – 10 million
1941-1945 – Nazi Genocides (statist atheists) – Germany – 11 million
1959-1962 – Great Leap Forward famine (communist atheists) – China – 43 million
1971 – Bangladesh Atrocities (Islamists) – East Pakistan – 3 million
1975-1979 – Khmer Rouge Repression (communist atheists) – Cambodia – 3 million
September 11, 2007 – Terrorist attacks (Muslim Jihadists) – USA – 5,000

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