Lighting questions.. Considering LED over hps/mh combo

Shaded420 said:

Hahaha, exactly Jartlow. Another thing to keep in mind is these Chinese LED companies flood forums with self-proclaimed stories greatness and excellent customer service(we except paypal!)

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, NOBODY IS DENYING THAT CHINESE LED PANELS DO/DO NOT WORK, NOBODY IS MAKING CLAIMS TO HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, AND YES WE UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN BRAND NAME NON-CHINESE LED PANELS USE COMPONENTS THAT COME FROM CHINA.

I can buy a Chinese ATV for $4000, or I can stick with my Yamaha for $8000.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Well I was dong some research and found this:

Hi All,

I am by no means an experienced grower, but I thought I'd start a journal to help those considering growing with led and also seek advice.

First a few things about the Hans led panels.
I did not want to over spend on leds, so I decided to dish out 360 euros on 2 Hans panels. I went with Hans panels because they were relatively cheap and I was impressed with his results on Growing Marijuana with LED, Growshow
Furthermore, reviews on his panels are few and far between, however, they are mostly positive.
Unfortunately, up until now (Oct 12th) I am very disappointed with the panels.
First of all, you would expect to receive fully functional panels, but out friend Hans has quality issues with his manufacturing because one of the panels I received was two solder points short of perfect. This meant, I was able to use it in "flowering" mode, but not "seedling" and "mother" mode.
When I notified Hans my panel wasn't working properly, I did not yet know that it was due to those 2 solder points. Instead of offering to replace it, he told me to disassemble the unit.
Now this already was a major pain in the arse, as it's not the customer service that one would expect for 360 euros, but nevermind...
I proceeded to disassemble the unit and immediately realized it was the soldering causing the malfunction. I told Hans I can repair it, but I want a partial refund to cover my costs. Of course he said no and offered to send me a soldering wand instead.
Rubbish customer service so if anyone out there is considering buying his panels then do so at your own risk.
To add insult to injury, you will soon see in the pictures below how "quickly" my girls are growing.

Here is a picture of my latest grow . This is a Secret Jardin Pro 4 x 4 tent picture taken through the side window. I used three 84 X LED and spot reflectors cfl's. In 5 gallon fabric pots... Two of the lights are direct purchase from the OEM. The other is a name brand light.

So you post a random review of some guy making claims with no pics or no e-mail chains?

Okay then

Thank you for your very (mis)informative post...

Also, by skimming over that review I can already tell you that the "reviewer" is/was using an older Hans panel which used manual jumpers to change the panel modes - which is not the case anymore. This is without getting into the topic of customer service accusations.

Regardless this is dumb. You guys are trying to prove his hans panel sucks compared to Chinese brands.. meanwhile he is just saying he'd rather buy from a company based in the states. He's not saying your panels won't grow anything or that they're necessarily shit compared to his..

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jartlow said:

I hate when people try to talk about their equipment just to justify their purchase. Also when they act like they know their stuff then spell things like "if they except paypal" instead of accept.. like I get it, spelling doesn't mean you can or cannot grow, but it does make you seem a little less educated.

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In the first place, there's no need to be an ass.

In the second place, I can spell perfectly well. And if this forum is a spelling contest, then you win.

Due to an issue of some nerve damage in my hands I generally use voice dictation instead of typing. It will consistently make errors of the type you so wisely caught. And no, I generally don't give a big enough crap about proofreading everything I write here. I've written two theses in my life and have no intention of doing so again.

And I'm not justifying anything – especially to you. I have no need of doing that. Note that I did not even indicate which equipment I have in that post. If I had to buy my lights again, I would definitely consider several other lights at this point (and am doing exactly that). Although, mine seem to be working fine. To give credit where credit is due, I do know what you mean about people often referencing their own equipment to justify their purchase. And on this point, you will have to trust me… I am not one of those. I don't have a dog in that fight. I am not a fanboy of anything in particular. I am a proponent of what works - nothing more or less.

As to education, I would gladly stack mine up against yours all day long. But then again, that's also not what this forum is about, if I'm right.

What is it about what I wrote that makes you think I'm only acting like I know my stuff? You assume a lot.

Try writing with a little respect. It will go a long ways.

So to keep things real clear, I was writing about my experience with a Chinese company. But in the future, if you would like to take issue with something I write, please do it directly, professionally and do so by pointing out specifically what it is that you are referring to instead of implying you've got some other problem with me by writing it in the form of presuppositions.

And just one more thing… I do not represent any company Chinese or otherwise. I'm not flooding this forum with information about any particular lights. I am here to learn and help just like hopefully everybody else is. I do think my lights are pretty good, but by no means are they the best. I also do not believe that if I bought them from the UK or the United States they would necessarily be better. Onward for christ's sakes.

jartlow said:

Regardless this is dumb. You guys are trying to prove his hans panel sucks compared to Chinese brands.. meanwhile he is just saying he'd rather buy from a company based in the states. He's not saying your panels won't grow anything or that they're necessarily shit compared to his..

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I don't know who you are referring to when you say "you guys". But do not include me in that.

I have not said anything against Hans panels. And why would I have? I have never used one. Anything I say would simply be an opinion of someone who never used one.

From all I can tell, the guy does a significant amount of research and for that, I'm very interested.

He also has some really cool looking trimmers.

All would be well advised to look at the name of this thread. "considering LED over HPS/MH combo". Let's see if we can't keep our conversation focused accordingly.

Let's all stop jumping to conclusions and participate like adults here.

I apologize. You are one of the few who would have a legitimate reason for the spelling. I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs. You tell me to be respectful but you're on the thread arguing with the rest.
Give some respect and you'll get some in return.

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jartlow said:

I apologize. You are one of the few who would have a legitimate reason for the spelling. I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs. You tell me to be respectful but you're on the thread arguing with the rest.
Give some respect and you'll get some in return.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Rollitup mobile app

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Thank you for the apology. It would be best if you had left it at just that.

I'm not arguing with anyone. I point out specific issues that I may think differently about, but that's what this is all about. People talking and trying to figure out the best way to go or alternate ways to go etc.

I think part of this thread is trying to figure out which lights do as they say they should do. We know that pretty much most every HPS light does what it should do. So the key, In my opinion, is to try to equal what an HPS can do. And that's rather difficult in the sense of weight. But LEDs are significantly better in quality as a general rule.

Again thank you. Let's try to all get along and move forward with pleasant discussions.

jartlow said:

I apologize. You are one of the few who would have a legitimate reason for the spelling. I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs. You tell me to be respectful but you're on the thread arguing with the rest.
Give some respect and you'll get some in return.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Rollitup mobile app

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We've just witnessed a demonstration of Mankind's politics at work, a trait that has killed more of us than any other cause in our brief history on this planet. How the hell did we end up flashing our "war mongering barbaric tendencies" over nothing more than a discussion topic that was suppose to do us good. It's amazing how we're all still here in the last 50 yrs. of having nukes. And gentlemen please stop displaying our other idiotic trait which is envy. One can determine one's intelligence level by the substance of his/her views and the manner of which they handle a given situation. Intelligence is not like respect, it's not automatically given and that it can also be earned back if lacked. Either u have it or u don't. So we can continue to degrade our species or we can conduct ourselves like semi-civilize neanderthals.

Even after I suggest that we let this poor stinkin mutt die in peace for god sake!!! I really don't give a rat's ass if u buy a .5w light, can we just let the audience make up their own mind on the info presented and stop fighting like a bunch of idiots. It was never my intention to start any controversy regarding this, but made an out of line remark and have since apologize and attempted to make peace in order to take this thread back to it's tru nature which is suppose to be a place to share not fight. This is not the UFC guys!!! We can do that too, if that's your cup of tea. As I stated before, I've live a life of body wrecking activities of being an action junkie. For entertainment purposes only.

It's obvious pointless and counter-productive to further discuss and entertain this topic anymore for the common interests. I feel more than enough evidence has been set forth by all parties so let's let the audience be the jury and decide on their own verdict on this topic gentlemen and control our hormone.

monkeychief said:

We've just witnessed a demonstration of Mankind's politics at work, a trait that has killed more of us than any other cause in our brief history on this planet. How the hell did we end up flashing our "war mongering barbaric tendencies" over nothing more than a discussion topic that was suppose to do us good. It's amazing how we're all still here in the last 50 yrs. of having nukes. And gentlemen please stop displaying our other idiotic trait which is envy. One can determine one's intelligence level by the substance of his/her views and the manner of which they handle a given situation. Intelligence is not like respect, it's not automatically given and that it can also be earned back if lacked. Either u have it or u don't. So we can continue to degrade our species or we can conduct ourselves like semi-civilize neanderthals.

Even after I suggest that we let this poor stinkin mutt die in peace for god sake!!! I really don't give a rat's ass if u buy a .5w light, can we just let the audience make up their own mind on the info presented and stop fighting like a bunch of idiots. It was never my intention to start any controversy regarding this, but made an out of line remark and have since apologize and attempted to make peace in order to take this thread back to it's tru nature which is suppose to be a place to share not fight. This is not the UFC guys!!! We can do that too, if that's your cup of tea. As I stated before, I've live a life of body wrecking activities of being an action junkie. For entertainment purposes only.

It's obvious pointless and counter-productive to further discuss and entertain this topic anymore for the common interests. I feel more than enough evidence has been set forth by all parties so let's let the audience be the jury and decide on their own verdict on this topic gentlemen and control our hormone.

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I also like to add is that all of my views and observations are actual hands-on experiences and not biased speculations and opinions as I can document everything I set forth and prove it's case with actual written documentation. Something the resellers can also claim to do but one must question one's source if it happens to be his vendor for obvious reasons. I'm not in the business nor have been promoting any particular brand or make rather just exposing the nature of the business. "caveat emptor" applies to all products from all places, period.

In summary...

Yes, you can get a LED setup that can and will compete nicely with a MH/HPS - tech has come a long way in the last few years. LED costs more up front, but it saves money in the long run. It also fills a niche area, such as microgrows or enclosed spaces where temperatures/clearance might be an issue.

All in all this has been a really(mostly) informative thread.

I already ordered my 190.. they should be in stock on the 27th.. counting down the days!

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jartlow said:

I already ordered my 190.. they should be in stock on the 27th.. counting down the days!

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Congrats, looking forward to the grow journal.

Shaded420 said:

Congrats, looking forward to the grow journal.

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Thanks bro

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monkeychief said:

I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs.

I think afther over 20yrs. and using and testing leds for the last 6yrs have given me ample time to test this theory otherwise I would never come on these threads and make a jack-ass out of myself and start talking groundless nonsense. You want a 600HPS replacement, it will take u at least 400w actual leds wattage and minimum 700w+ to even consider talkin bout the 1kHPS. I never argued one led brand is better than another rather than just pointing out the nature of the beast and how to take advantage as a consumer. It's a free and open market out there, it's up to u to be a wise consumer or a sucker. It's all up to ourselves.

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I understand. Take it easy bro

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Where am I said:

Well I was dong some research and found this:

Hi All,

I am by no means an experienced grower, but I thought I'd start a journal to help those considering growing with led and also seek advice.

First a few things about the Hans led panels.
I did not want to over spend on leds, so I decided to dish out 360 euros on 2 Hans panels. I went with Hans panels because they were relatively cheap and I was impressed with his results on Growing Marijuana with LED, Growshow
Furthermore, reviews on his panels are few and far between, however, they are mostly positive.
Unfortunately, up until now (Oct 12th) I am very disappointed with the panels.
First of all, you would expect to receive fully functional panels, but out friend Hans has quality issues with his manufacturing because one of the panels I received was two solder points short of perfect. This meant, I was able to use it in "flowering" mode, but not "seedling" and "mother" mode.
When I notified Hans my panel wasn't working properly, I did not yet know that it was due to those 2 solder points. Instead of offering to replace it, he told me to disassemble the unit.
Now this already was a major pain in the arse, as it's not the customer service that one would expect for 360 euros, but nevermind...
I proceeded to disassemble the unit and immediately realized it was the soldering causing the malfunction. I told Hans I can repair it, but I want a partial refund to cover my costs. Of course he said no and offered to send me a soldering wand instead.
Rubbish customer service so if anyone out there is considering buying his panels then do so at your own risk.
To add insult to injury, you will soon see in the pictures below how "quickly" my girls are growing.

Click to expand...

Funny how the negatives are quickly dismissed.

Where's da proof?

I bought $1000 worth of Chinese LED's 2 years ago and they all failed within 3 months, their customer service reps took over 2 months to get back to me and then said I would have to buy new panels(even though they were under warranty) because it was my environment that caused water damage to the PSU.

See how that works?

monkeychief said:

I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs.

I think afther over 20yrs. and using and testing leds for the last 6yrs have given me ample time to test this theory otherwise I would never come on these threads and make a jack-ass out of myself and start talking groundless nonsense. You want a 600HPS replacement, it will take u at least 400w actual leds wattage and minimum 700w+ to even consider talkin bout the 1kHPS. I never argued one led brand is better than another rather than just pointing out the nature of the beast and how to take advantage as a consumer. It's a free and open market out there, it's up to u to be a wise consumer or a sucker. It's all up to ourselves.

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Your info has been exceptionally helpful, MonkeyChief.

As I expand my flower space by about five times or more, I will definitely be going with your recommendations. I am not trying to see how little watts I can use - but instead trying to see if I can keep all of the quality of LED and bring up the quantity to that of HPS.

I like the idea of approximately 800 W per 4' x 4' space.


Just sayin'.

Btw, check your email.

jartlow said:

I understand. Take it easy bro

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Can't we all get along now? lol. K let's get back into more useful topics. I did a lot of research and testing regarding the wattage needed to get the yield/quality comparable to HPS as this is our common goal so correct me if I'm wrong. I've been studying that Rocky Mt. High and the Illumitex light bars used in this Danny Danko vid. I posted earlier. If u want high-end quality that works, here it is and it's also american made with an american price-tag. It's a 48" dual-bar light that consists of 24 x 11actual using a cob -type 16 1w chip pushing .68w each for a total of 11w actual per chip. These are what the commercial big commercial veg. farm operations use. If my calculations after studying that vid. frame by frame to calculate the exact number of panels used and it's as follows. They used (6) dueal-bars x running 24 x 11W actual = a total of yikes 1584w in a 4x4'. He also mentioned in the that they were pushing up to 30% more than the HID's in terms of par with up to 30% better yield. This is why I say u need at at least 70%+ actual vs. HID's to just be happy with the yield and quality and more like 80+ to even consider and HID alternative, and way beyond like this system suggests to meet and beat the current king, 1k HPS. The savings will be in the cooling due to leds inherent heat dissipation ability that allows it to operate on average only 15 degress above ambient room temp from what I understand. The savings in power need for cooling such as fans, ac's, etc. average another 30%. So this basically demonstrates with the current tech, the ratio wattage needed for comparable yields is at 1.1 ratio. The advantage in total power consumption is the 30% savings in the additional cooling needed by the HPS. So we can conclude the safest guestimation that by using the same amount of wattage vs. HID's we can gain up to 30% in power consumption along with the additional costs of hardware for the HID's such as replacement bulbs, equip. failures, etc.. These are real life examples not bs claims and myths perpetrated by the industry to rip-off the consumers. This is keeping in spirit this thread's title. This is just my observations from my research and actual hands-on trials and errors thru the yrs. as I'm always welcome and open to corrections and suggestions as we're all still trying to master this new thing.