Lighting questions.. Considering LED over hps/mh combo

Shaded420 said:

I made up that story about the Chinese panels I bought, which was exactly my point...this is the internet, anyone can say anything and expect people to take it as a truth.

If you're going to be making claims like that reviewer was, then at the VERY least you should be backing it up with pictures or a link to a well documented article.

Anyway, jartlow made up his mind, he's purchased his lights....move along and watch his grow.

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i can say this you want cre led np the chinese will install them for you. humm how can they install cre? well they are american designed and was made in america but for cost they are now made in china. humm how is that no way. well it comes down to money. and cre can say american made if they do make 15% of them in the usa. so they make 15% of them here. so now what do you have to say? Sure american warranty means they will back it and fix or replace it. do you really think americans want to pay higher labor costs? some will but they can have 85% of them made in china and still say they are american made. dotn shoot me. shoot our government for allowing this law. yes even organic means 15% organic. if it doesnt say 100% organic its not. if it doesnt say 100% made in usa its not. Im not gonna aurgue or fight over this. hey its the new american way. lets lie hide and screw over as many as we can. just like there is no cure for cancer. you can get a prescription and 1 in 100 test subjects died. 1 went into comma 5 are fucked up beyond belief, but since it helped 1 person a little its now safe that is how our FDA is. Dont sit here and tell me american anymore that would insult me. Im a veteran i served my country. i cant beleave what our country is now. 15% of our big business is owned by Japan. Im gonna say this so you all can hear me. America isnt free and not many things are american made. our top selling cars are japan designed. So lets jsut embrace the fact we live on earth and as long as its made on earth its cool. hum well in a few years who knows that may not be the way. You want to fight over stupid lights mine is better than yours ect. who gives a care if you cant talk like adults then shut the F up. Sorry all i seen a little girl who went to ER cause her parents crushed her skull and im not so happy right now. Im real and have not lied. like one who said i lied about my panels. well what the F? you lie for what reason? did it save a life? do you feel better? is your dick bigger? i think not. it just makes you a piece of shit. so go ahead and keep lieing and the smell will follow you everywhere. sorry for those who are real i mean no disrespect im just tired of lieres and how we the people are no longer the people. keep it real or get the F out.

Our cars being jap designed.. lol it's all fun and games until your job gets shipped to Mexico for lower costs. The top brand of car being from Japan = all profits going to Japan. How's that help us as a country? I buy American

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jartlow said:

Our cars being jap designed.. lol it's all fun and games until your job gets shipped to Mexico for lower costs. The top brand of car being from Japan = all profits going to Japan. How's that help us as a country? I buy American

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i also try to. but i went to harley and asked them how many parts are not made in america, they told me 30% are not. you buy a chevy or ford and guess what its about the same. I can only say american means nothing anymore bro. it breaks my heart. we can only get clothes and food 100% American made.

You're right but at some point you have to take into consideration where the profits go

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jartlow said:

You're right but at some point you have to take into consideration where the profits go

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yes if the profits go to americans then we kinda win. we need to shut down or trade. become america again. mkae it all in america.

Pacific trade agreement :thumbdown:

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DCobeen said:

50 watt per square ft should be sweet with led. im at 30 watt. and i do think ill still do decent yield but not huge yeild.

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Let's cross our fingers as you're right on the borderline on the density requirement because what what happens I the buds tend to stretch as it stretches in effort to reach for the light as plants do when there's a lack of intensity or there's too much reds in the spec.. This action actually causes the buds to expand(stretch) similar to stalks therefore; makes the bud get bigger but more sponge, airy with little mass. I grew a 5ft. DWC WW with a HGL 126X for shits n giggles once. Ended with an 8" wide, 12"main cola that looked like a mutated ugly haze looking cola not typical of the Widow's usual fat, dense bud. It was so airy it felt like a sponge when squeezed.

Shaded420 said:

I made up that story about the Chinese panels I bought, which was exactly my point...this is the internet, anyone can say anything and expect people to take it as a truth.

If you're going to be making claims like that reviewer was, then at the VERY least you should be backing it up with pictures or a link to a well documented article.

Anyway, jartlow made up his mind, he's purchased his lights....move along and watch his grow.

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No matter how hard u try to keep the crap from floating to the top of the water, bud, physics will make sure you'll get busted. This is why if you go and read most of the Hans journals and u see all these people either praising or criticizing competitors on groundless, prejudice as I pointed out earlier. You felt compelled enough to make up a lie to slander an demonize a group of products for what other than to make a complete fool out of yourself and wasted everyone's time. Pics don't necessarily legitimize anything as they can be switched, but the pics of those Hans result didn't even match the claimed yield if anyone who's had some experience looking closely at them. Anyway, this is as far as I'm gonna take this worthless topic. Lighten up, dude. Lies are not going get u very far in life and earn u any respect as it's pathetic. What a waste of everyone's time.

monkey, you are one angry little individual. Look, you even quoted my post twice and replied twice before I could even respond....apparently the edit button is far below you.

I felt compelled to prove a point that this is the internet and anyone can say anything they damn well please, yourself included in that statement.

Follow along my grow or not, I couldn't really give two fucks less what you think about the Hans panel anymore.

Shaded420 said:

monkey, you are one angry little individual. Look, you even quoted my post twice and replied twice before I could even respond....apparently the edit button is far below you.

No, Bud. If u would actually pay attention you would notice I responded the first time then decided to include the other person's statement and then re-posted yours again in case your select amnesia hits u again. And why would I let u make me angry ,sir, I'm copulating retired so why would I want to stress myself on something as retarded and childish as this.



I felt compelled to prove a point that this is the internet and anyone can say anything they damn well please, yourself included in that statement.

There's much better ways to do this than lie, sir. The truth's the truth. Good or bad. Convenient or not.

Follow along my grow or not, I couldn't really give two fucks less what you think about the Hans panel anymore.

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Dude. For the first time we actually have a mutual agreement on a worthwhile topic. And for that, we should get out our peace bong fill that female dog up with some killer kif and burn that stinkin dog up.

I don't think anyone here who's an american will deny that they will do their best or at least make the effort to buy american whenever feasible. We as consumers are mostly responsible with the help of poor legislation to lend a helping hand in the mess. Look at NAFTA, and the latest bs signings but we are partly responsible so we have to choice or try to change our ways but that's not gonna happen anytime soon so accept it and deal with it. Besides, people, it's too late. The chinese are too far ahead and the world has already made them our manufacturing infrastructure. Everyone else design, they make. Just think, what the hell do they know bout our girls, but yet they're making money of it indirectly from almost all of our equipments with exception to nutes are made by them. This is the inconvenient truth of the global economy and businesses now cannot compete and survive without outsourcing. Let's also not kid ourselves as the chinese hold a trillion of our dollar and is our largest creditor. I think the blame here should be shifted towards the US based resellers who are just plain greedy because instead of using the chinese to reduce the production costs thus enabling them to be more competitive but instead chose to pocket that savings rather than offering their products at more competitive pricing to stimulate sales because of greed. We need to wake up and stop living in this crazy make believe the world according to america attitude. Reality is that we obviously didn't learn from the Romans that when society becomes so rich and powerful, human nature takes over which is laziness since our basic instinct to survive is suppressed because we are no longer hungry. What then happens is the rest of the world is not as fortunate so they're more hungry and motivated so they will work a lot harder. Well, China gets a A+ because in 40 years, they've managed to show the world that they can throw a 40billion dollar olympic party. It's too late as they've beat us at our own game cause we dropped the ball. Regarding that 35% middle-class soon which means it's a huge market and chinese loves americana. Well then we just have to find out what they like and sell them what they want. Let them make it and we'll resell it back to them. Think bout that for a minute instead of wishful thinking rather than accept the truth and deal with it. I came from a real-estate/finance background so I saw it coming, prepared myself and took advantage of it. I got a lot of those chinese dollars back for us but I had to sell them some of our RE though. These guys are suckers when it comes to buying properties because they have so much of our dollars and do not want to bring it back to china.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a0zhc1y_Ns

Don Styln said:

Like pretty much everything, doing things well costs. I'm not one to feel the need to buy a Bentley just to say that I have one of the most expensive cars possible. But a Mercedes or even a Land Rover are very nice. .

Lately I keep reading about so many people trying to grow in a 4 x 4 or 5 x 5 area - and trying to do it with just one light and 500 or 600 W. Then they report their results, And they are disappointed. I know, I'm one of them. (although, I started off with double that amount of space.) It still was nowhere near enough light.

As to COB lights, I tried those a while back and they were terrible. The plants looked visibly wrong - like they were missing something terribly. Super low yields. I know the technology is improving for those kind of lights, but I'm still wary.


Oooo, I'm liking the idea of 1k per 4' x 4' area. Would love to hear more about that. Have you sourced anything specific that would do it?

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Well I have grown in a 4 x 4 with about 540 watts LED and 600 watts HID. My experience is LED= higher quality, HID= higher density. The yield was comparable. I grow larger plants and do a limited amount of pruning... Monkey made a good observation (point) about the movement of the sun. The plants are basically static and we normally have the lights mounted above them. The sun actually will provide them light at varying angles as it moves from sunrise to sunset. If you use a standard light mover it would provide some difference but then you are sacrificing intensity as it moves across the canopy. There are vertical light methods of growing that help address the issue but is harder to do that with LED. Yeah !K of LED still provides substantial savings over 1K of HID because of the difference in the heat they produce...

jartlow said:

I ordered one. I want to know I can produce before I invest another 600.

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Wise move as it's a pretty hefty investment at 600squids. Got my chair and bong ready anticipating your show. Good luck, bud.

monkeychief said:

Let's cross our fingers as you're right on the borderline on the density requirement because what what happens I the buds tend to stretch as it stretches in effort to reach for the light as plants do when there's a lack of intensity or there's too much reds in the spec.. This action actually causes the buds to expand(stretch) similar to stalks therefore; makes the bud get bigger but more sponge, airy with little mass. I grew a 5ft. DWC WW with a HGL 126X for shits n giggles once. Ended with an 8" wide, 12"main cola that looked like a mutated ugly haze looking cola not typical of the Widow's usual fat, dense bud. It was so airy it felt like a sponge when squeezed.

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i also have 100 watt cfl on each 2 sides that should help. man they sure spit out allot more bud spots in flower this is 8 days in flower for 2 and 1 day for the 1.
question i can add a 4ft duel florescent light behind them standing staight up. im gonna do that that will give me more light and help get better yield.

Where am I said:

Well I have grown in a 4 x 4 with about 540 watts LED and 600 watts HID. My experience is LED= higher quality, HID= higher density. The yield was comparable. I grow larger plants and do a limited amount of pruning... Monkey made a good observation (point) about the movement of the sun. The plants are basically static and we normally have the lights mounted above them. The sun actually will provide them light at varying angles as it moves from sunrise to sunset. If you use a standard light mover it would provide some difference but then you are sacrificing intensity as it moves across the canopy. There are vertical light methods of growing that help address the issue but is harder to do that with LED. Yeah !K of LED still provides substantial savings over 1K of HID because of the difference in the heat they produce...

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The "I" in HID is the key to it's success in yield and quality since this under-defines the intensity of natural sunlight which is the true king and benchmark of yield/quality. As this is the reason why I've seen and suggest that without intensity nothing else matters. No point on have the best tuned suspension if you'r not going to put enough hp behind it. This pretty much the myth of using 1/4-1/3wattage of HID's for comparable performance. The application of multi-panels will only compensate to a certain point but again mother nature is the only one that has the actual blueprint to our girls' design thus, should always be the best.

jartlow said:

I apologize. You are one of the few who would have a legitimate reason for the spelling. I made this thread to ask a question in comparison to led over mh/hps.. anyone who has commented(including yourself) hasn't compared the two, but instead argued over who makes better LEDs. You tell me to be respectful but you're on the thread arguing with the rest.
Give some respect and you'll get some in return.

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I never stated which panel was better. My point was that 65 watts of any type of LED light wouldn't be able produce the same results of a 1K HID system... You need almost watt for watt to get the same results. If you look at one of my previous post I showed a picture of my current grow. This grow has about 500 watts of LED and 60 watts of cfl's which did a great job in veg... Since my last grow was the exact same strains I know this wattage will give me less dense buds...

okay question. tomorrow im adding 80 more watt florescent to my 200 watts cfl and 172 watts of led. so these are all blasting a 2'x3' area. that is 75 watts total power sq ft. 28.666666 watt led sq ft. 33.33333 watt cfl sq ft. 13.333 florexcent watt per sq ft. what should i expect for a yield with 3 plants 1 takes up 1/2 the space the other 2 take the other half.

DCobeen said:

i also have 100 watt cfl on each 2 sides that should help. man they sure spit out allot more bud spots in flower this is 8 days in flower for 2 and 1 day for the 1.
View attachment 3008491 question i can add a 4ft duel florescent light behind them standing staight up. im gonna do that that will give me more light and help get better yield.

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I would like to recommend two controversial technique to some but has worked well in my experience is the increase of nitrogen vs. high P to kick start the budding and shooting period like your in now. In this stage, your girls are in their shooting/stretching period that includes a lot of vegging since they will be developing their branching and secondary canopy in preparation for budding so they will require extra N to ensure robust growth resulting in better yield and quality. The removal of fan leaves that grows towards the center of the plant and canopy should be removed along with some of the smaller leaves to allow direct light contact with the leaves and buds themselves. I also think there's a common misconception that providing UV/IR for their benefits can be realize without direct light radiation since the UV/IR are supposed to trigger the plants defense mechanism and hormones to encourage the plant to strengthen it's immune system and produce more resin in order to protect it. This is why it kinda defeats the purpose if u asks me to buy a sniper weapon that can deliver a precision shot and then covering up the intended target.

Yes, highly recommended especially right now when u are in your shooting/stretching phase and need more of the veg. spectrum containing more green/blue peaks to develop a sturdy platform for big yields. Just use stand T-8's and use more of them. (2) T-8's at 36w is still better than (1)HO T-5 at 54w and it will also allow u to mix some 3000k warm-whites to help put a more rounded flower spec. along with more intensity. Just remember, the more intensity the more growth and yield. Intensity is just the amount of power u apply to power the photosynthesis process so the more u apply the stronger and more effective as with anything, the performance and results are directly related to the amount of power applied.

DCobeen said:

okay question. tomorrow im adding 80 more watt florescent to my 200 watts cfl and 172 watts of led. so these are all blasting a 2'x3' area. that is 75 watts total power sq ft. 28.666666 watt led sq ft. 33.33333 watt cfl sq ft. 13.333 florexcent watt per sq ft. what should i expect for a yield with 3 plants 1 takes up 1/2 the space the other 2 take the other half.

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Unfortunately u are using total wattage as a whole when u are actually using , and will be using with the intro of the 48" floro's makes 3 different sources of lighting that varies in intensity output. In your situation unfortunately all 3 sources are inherently low intensity with leds as the most powerful source so the more the merrier.

monkeychief said:

Unfortunately u are using total wattage as a whole when u are actually using , and will be using with the intro of the 48" floro's makes 3 different sources of lighting that varies in intensity output. In your situation unfortunately all 3 sources are inherently low intensity with leds as the most powerful source so the more the merrier.

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yeah the 4ft duel tubes im gonna run over and grab 2 new bulbs in 2 hrs. this will be straight up on 1 side of plants for side lighting. i think i have 3700k bulbs for it. i can also grab another. i have enough top penetration with the led to get into 1/2 of the plant that is why im using side cfl and florescent to fill in. i want the lower buds to grow bigger those will be used for hash and honey oil. i want to get 1- 2 oz of decent buds for smoke and 1-2 oz for hash/oil(including leaves)