My Second try.....12/12 from clone

bfq said:

large plants take large areas... i would love nothing more than to grow 15 foot trees, but.....

Yea really, in my wildest dreams

the purple is actually from them being nute starved after cloning... it is a rare breed that has healthy and purple stems... it is ok though, they will get over it as they grow out.

Rare breed? Don't get me hopes up, sorta makes me feel like i have a golden ticket on my hands, i hope....not a clue wtf it came from though, hoping its a skunk or something similar, got them from a friend who's friend of a friends grew, said they had 100 in a corn field....was seeded all to hell, and very leafy IIRC, very thin stems...dunno

for flower the first or the second nutes would be decent... i dont like using the really low ratio nutes myself.

Last time i was also using flower nutes+AJ at once then with Molasses on the alternating waterings, so once a week nutes/AJ, and once a week molasses.

sure, tie her down and/or flower early and keep those CFL's RIGHT on the canopy

I'm already on 12/12, i can't get her to flower any quicker than she wants, I can't wait to get the HPS, before i do i'm also going to get another 78cfm inline fan like i already have, i really want to get some side lighting, but will only make my cabinet even hotter i'd imagine.

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i think you need to decide on either chemical nutes or going organic... me, i like the chemical nutes... screw organics they are FAR to unstable and problematic

Well for this time, i'm sticking with chem nutes,and the NPK's like Db suggested, i'll work into organics at a later point.....i already know they love AJ, nice added K, and simple sugars they can use easily, but use occasionally, not every other watering lol, And molasses gets all them little micronutes in organic soils active plus other micronutes, and K as well......Its all a balancing act. But i'll leave that to later down the road.

If everything is going good i may add a spritz of apple here and there, but might not even do that. Whats make organic taste differently....besides all naturally occuring nutes instead of synthetic or chemical induced??

Ok well i edited that picture, i really can't even see or put my fingers on anything in that area, its just so damn small......Should it get bigger, or what?? Or is it just too early? I added a 3 which i beleive is what your talking about, but theres just so much squeezed into a small place i don't think i could seperate them all, she just went to bed so i'll check again tommorrow and see if there more defined and i can actually seprate everything.......Or do i just cut that growth (bud) ball off? I'm gonna do it tommorrow.

organics dont taste differently by nature.... things like apple juice change the flavor obviously, but that isnt because they are "organic".

the difference between organic and not organic is pure and simply JUST the fact that organics have a carbon molecule. that is it. N is still N and same with P and K

people think just because it is "organic" it is better for you... but nicotine is organic.

organic is a pain in the ass because it is so unstable. it is really hard to get consistent bat shit

some chemical nutes though are prone to make nasty flavors and crappy burning conditions but that is more to do with the cheapness of them... compare a premium brand soda to a generic equivalent for example.

chemicals are stable, organics are not... so they take a LOT more micromanagement and paying attention... also, they do NOT play well together. organic growing requires microgrowth to work properly and chemical hydroponics kills that.

for example, hydrogen peroxide (chemical oxygen) kills things. is adding oxygen to the roots bad then?

see what i am saying?

MetalSmelter said:

Ok well i edited that picture, i really can't even see or put my fingers on anything in that area, its just so damn small......Should it get bigger, or what?? Or is it just too early? I added a 3 which i beleive is what your talking about, but theres just so much squeezed into a small place i don't think i could seperate them all, she just went to bed so i'll check again tommorrow and see if there more defined and i can actually seprate everything.......Or do i just cut that growth (bud) ball off? I'm gonna do it tommorrow.

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dont separate anything, just snip it off.

bet right about now you are seeing how Fuck I Missed came to be

that is exactly where you want to cut

if you let it get bigger you are just wasting grow time by letting something doomed use grow energy.

(the server crap is pissing me off, so i am out for a bit)

bfq said:

dont separate anything, just snip it off.

bet right about now you are seeing how Fuck I Missed came to be

that is exactly where you want to cut

if you let it get bigger you are just wasting grow time by letting something doomed use grow energy.

(the server crap is pissing me off, so i am out for a bit)

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Agreed, server timing out BS is happening alot more today than normal.

I still have a few inches of growth leway to the top of her. So tommorrow when she wakes up i'll snip that area off. So i'll essentially have 2 heads there instead of the typical 4 on a normal seed plant? Or just 2...??

I may add 1 23wers to the side somewhere in the cabinet to keep it from stretching as she gets taller, as i keep taking spacers out below the pot....I dunno how bad those lower growths will really stretch the lower the plant gets and the farther away from light. I don't mind ALOT of width i just want very close nodes to keep everything compact and as much weight in as small a space as possible. But i know adding more lights is just gonna raise temps even more......

think in terms of branches with topping.... so, if you have a main stalk, that will give ONE cola. we are ignoring lower branches for this discussion.... when you top, that one becomes two... if you FIM, that one can become as many as six but will be at least three.

make sense now?

you can also top/FIM all the other branches and turn each single head into multiples... that is called super shrubbing

it is best to top in veg though.... personally i still need to experiment with topping in flower.... so i am looking forward to seeing the results you get.

feel used?

Oh really.....supper shrubbing, i'll do that then. I understand whats going on now, and see what the picture in the link i posted is now talking about, because of the alternating nodes, there are two sets of fan leaves, i only have a single pair at the top, very very newest growth, so i take that off. Hopefully she hasn't gotten too much taller over the night so i can maximize the height. I mean i have a offshoot every 3/4"-1", and if i could turn all of those into somewhat large mutliple heads by doing what you said, and having alot of large colas all the way up her, then that would be awesome!!!. So doing this, does it stress her as well, i'd probobly only want to do it a few times though so it dosent stress her too much, and delay flower. I know she's already a girl because of clone, but as far as time frame when can i expect growth to slow and stop, sexed i've read was usualy 2wks after initiation of 12/12 then another few weeks till budding? So for height to stop 1/3 of the way through total grow time in 12/12?

be warned again: i have never topped in flower, so your results may TOTALLY differ!!

i have never noticed stress from topping actually. i am sure it does to a degree but usually when i top/FIM the NEXT day shows dramatic growth from the side branches and such.

also, with topping/FIMming there is a point of diminishing returns... in other words, normally, under high wattage lights or Sunlight the buds would be HUGE and if you top they arent so huge (but there is more than one, so you do still get more, generally)... under low wattage though, the buds are already small... so topping/FIMming does increase the yield a LOT.

i will come back in a bit and post to you my actual flowering times to answer your timing questions... gotta check notes and take care of something else first.

mother fuck.

i wrote up my schedule and there was a DB error and it got eaten... i am going to bed and will retype it tomorrow at some point.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Day 9

Not a problem, i went ahead and Fimmed her on all 10 sites this morning, some of the middle sites were on there 2nd splits, and really only had 1 leaf or pair of leaves on it, so i did catch all very early, so i'll be excited to see what blows up from that. But fimmed her From soil to tip top. I just hope i did it right, and i have noticed at the top there are multiple single blade leaves with side pair. Does this mean i'm almost near to stoppin top main stalk vertical growth, as i have few and far between 5 leafs pairs.

Starting from the bottom there are 3 5 leaf branches, i cut 2 of these during rooting to help with roots, and 2 more that i cut off early on due to a bleaching or whitening. Next up are 3 leafs which number in 4......Next i have 3 single leaves. On 50% of the secondary offshoots are single blades as well. That would be sweet if it was almost done reaching, and just bushed out.

Anyway heres a picture, about 10mins after i did this the top tip top most single leaf seen in the photo was curling up so i must have gotten a little too close with my razor, and snipped it, so i just cut the rest off, i think thats the proper fim method, in the picture its crooked sideways.



EDIT: Gonna add what i've done in the last few hrs or so, since no one has responded yet, so it'll be a large update post.

Went and got some foam core, and added it to the bottom area, and cut out two holes, one for a 8" pot, and one for a 6" pot, So i can keep 2 plants and fit them. The 8" pot should be plenty large for a 12/12 cycle.



Also transplanted leggy into that 8" pot with Miricle grow Organics choice. Nute porp are .1-.05-.05. After i transplanted her, i watered 1/2 gallon with 1/8teaspoon of the 10-52-10. I figure i'm going to try molasses once or twice after she starts budding, mabey it'll get the organic soil going, being a chelating agent.



Hopefully with the bit of nutes i gave the N def will undo itself...

from what i can see, things look decent.

my largest pots are 8 inchers and cause my grow is so short (will get the schedule up for you soon ) they are NOT root bound to shit at the end of the grow... course, my plants are only 8" tall at the end of the grow too

slight difference though... i fill mine with soil all the way to the top. there is barely a 1/4 inch of pot edge showing... believe it or not, that last bit at the top is a LOT of soil and the plants use it up.

Nice cab, I like that you insulated it. But I think that your going to hurt your yields with that plexi glass heat shield. Plexi glass or even glass that thick will block out some of the light color your going. Imo you should remove it and increase your intake hole size to off set the heat diff. in the cab. Just a thought.

Do you think opening the intake would really lower temps that much, I've got a 78cfm 4" duct fan. Temps are low to mid 90's even with the plexi. Output is that 4" diamater hole, using 4" aluminum ducting smoothed out for best airflow, intake is a 2"x2" square, where the power cord also comes through.

Heat problems have been a ever present issue for me from the getgo and last grow as well. Daily temps are sitting today at 90F, but yesterday and the day before were 105-110F humid days. Box was sitting at 94F earlier this week, i added a ice bottle in the small area where the intake is, to keep heat away from the ice and siphon cold air into the chamber.....sitting at 88F with it. As soon as i leave though temps skyrocket and shock. Think a 2x4" hole would be enough to keep temps at 90F daily? Would be a blessing.

Thank you BTW, do appreciate it. I do plan when i can afford it to get a 150w hps ballast kit/socket, for this cabinet, And removing the top shelf for later down the road and growing larger plants.

sorry, this has turned into a ramble after i lost the first writing yesterday... please bear with me if i give too much info. it SUCKS to recreate writing. (good thing i wrote this on a txt file this time! DB errors again with RIU.)

growing from seed, i flower after just over 2 weeks of veg, generally about day 16. (i got this idea from See More Buds' (aka Garden Knowm) CFL book... book came in WAY handy as i was getting a grip with CFLs... worth buying. but at this point for you it might be worthless information.)

when i clone, it takes about 7-10 days for my clones to show roots out of the side of the jiffy plugs and i put them into flower on day 8-9 regardless of if i see roots or not.

with seedlings, i see pistils after 15-16 days, no matter what the strain of seed i have used so far.

from clone, i see pistils as soon as 4 days but usually within a week of putting them to flower. the discrepancy comes from Jiffy plugs sucking for cloning and them being really at different levels of healed up after being cut. i am either going to go back to vermiculite or using rockwool cubes.

with the strain i am using for my primary plants right now, it takes 53 days in flower for them to mature. i lucked out by getting two seeds out of a dank ounce so the strain is grown locally and not some Tex-Mex schwag and finishes fast.

i have two other strains going from some other seeds that are working out ok but i have no real idea if they will go as fast in flower. one seems that it will go slower but not much. the other has only been in flower for 4 days so no telling. the clones put in the same day are already showing pistils.

all the plants keep getting drastically taller each day until about the 45th day of flower. the last seedling i put to flower is twice the size it was 4 days ago and the clones are fully 4 times the size they were.

i have to constantly check them and make sure they dont get into the lights because an inch of growth happens even in late flower.

which brings us to the advice you received a couple posts ago about the plexi-glass you are using.

after the first batch of plants i grew only tying them down, i put plexi in front of the bulbs to prevent the buds from getting burned shitless each day. since then, i have changed my light rigs (tripled my grow area, w00t!) and have not added plexi back yet.... i see NO DIFFERENCE between using plexi and not other than i get burned leaves (and will get burned buds) without it. as soon as i get my new light arrangement how i like it, plexi WILL go back! also, the plexi isolates the heat from the bulbs from the plants and i can use an exhaust duct to suck the hot air from the lights.

but dont take my word for it, grow one batch from the same strain with the plexi and one without it. i am betting you will see what i saw.

Thanks for the write up BFQ, good words there.

Questions.....

Day 4 from clone showing hairs, is that after 7-10 days rooting, then 4 days on 12/12? I'm on day 10 since rooting, and total 19days since cut from mama. Took 9 days for her to root, then 10 days since rooting. I figure around day 14 she should be showing hairs, at most day 18 because i took a few days to back down from 24/0 to 12/12 with intervals.

I don't see anyway of cooling the cabinet down any better than using the plexi for the time being, after i get the hps down the road, i'll figure that out then......Seems like i may be able to hold the box from 90-95F daily....still high imo but they wont die i hope. In 3 weeks i'll be gone for 4-6 days, trying to figure out something for that time period, or anything i'm working on right now after that period will be dead with 100F. Is there anything like a 120v plug in cooler pack or something that will work, just for the time being?? Also somewhat concerned with cutting any on the input hole, making it too large and having no pull.

Day 10



I've yet to see pistils on leggy......quite a bit larger female parts though than last grow, the largest looks to be a 1/4" long or so, but no hairs visible, so when it does start blowing up, it should be real nice. Also worth commenting is that branching and main stem are starting to get back towards the purple/dark colors, so hopefully she's on her proper way, and its not just def of some sort.....I wouldn't mind a purple stemmed plant lol, as long as she smokes very nice and smooth, an added plus would be some type of flavor......hmm.

Looking at the clones today, 1 had roots breaking surface of 1/5 so i put it in a solo cup. I also have one clone i'm watching closely, it has the shortes internodal distances and are showing visible hairs, looks the farthest along, also transplanted it and another one today as well, I think one of them could have gone a day or two longer rooting, but its no problem. Really wanting to get her into 12/12 quick as possible to keep that going and keep her moving forward.

Also worth mentioning is "Wilt" has 3 heads that are the same length, with a split 1" above the soil, and another split another .5" above the first split. So i actually have 3 heads that are growing the same speed now. Though severely stunted as it seems. Though foilage is coming back strong, thinking it may be a good base for a decent high yielder because of the split so low down. think i could top each arm and get more arms from her, just figured i'd play with her. I guess i'll just keep topping and fimming her for a few weeks to put her a few weeks behind leggy if anything.....

day 4 after getting planted and put under the 12-12 lights.... that is by far the fastest one yet, so an extreme, not to be considered normal even in my grow.

dont take it as good or bad if your take longer.

what could be a factor is the transplanting and pulling of the clones to check for roots. i put mine in plugs and leave em there for several days and then put the plugs into their final pot and leave them there till harvest. not as stressful. usually, the common result of plant stress is slowed plant development.

100 degrees will NOT kill a plant. it will slow it down just a bit and decrease over all yield (maybe) but it sure aint the end of the world. water is a bigger concern than temps.... just water them at the last possible lights on minute you have before you leave and dont worry about them... water em as soon as you can when you get back... all will be fine.

YES! add a second 2x2 square air intake!!!

BTW, i just thought of something that can explain why my results vary from yours so much.... i have about 600 true watts in my grow now and i am planning on adding yet another 200 watts this coming week. if i can get my ventilation increased sufficiently i will be adding it in HPS/MH... if not, it will be in CFL... all depends on budget.

My response in Bold

bfq said:

day 4 after getting planted and put under the 12-12 lights.... that is by far the fastest one yet, so an extreme, not to be considered normal even in my grow.

That is pretty damn quick, if i may say so, if i do see hairs i trust the'll be quite long.....got some 1/4" cones on some top sites...i'm sure the hairs will be just as long, as they were 1/4 of this size on mama....Dunno! lol

dont take it as good or bad if your take longer.

what could be a factor is the transplanting and pulling of the clones to check for roots. i put mine in plugs and leave em there for several days and then put the plugs into their final pot and leave them there till harvest. not as stressful. usually, the common result of plant stress is slowed plant development.

I know this is gonna be a problem, took the 2 best looking clones out today, transplanted them by my last post, and put them in with leggy, and wilt on 12/12.....and one was very limp after an hr, and the other limp but not nearly as much, this one being the one with the visible hairs at that time.....dunno how it'll affect them, but there both back in the dome.

100 degrees will NOT kill a plant. it will slow it down just a bit and decrease over all yield (maybe) but it sure aint the end of the world. water is a bigger concern than temps.... just water them at the last possible lights on minute you have before you leave and dont worry about them... water em as soon as you can when you get back... all will be fine.

YES! add a second 2x2 square air intake!!!

Going to be doing this first thing in the morning, and will stay around for a few hrs before i head out of town over the weekned. should be a good test......but i hope it just dosent delay things severely, thats my only concern. Looks to me leggy is getting a bit dry on top, not sure how bad though, with the vermiculite, so i'll probboyl top her off a little till she drains some, then be done till i get back mid sunday.

BTW, i just thought of something that can explain why my results vary from yours so much.... i have about 600 true watts in my grow now and i am planning on adding yet another 200 watts this coming week. if i can get my ventilation increased sufficiently i will be adding it in HPS/MH... if not, it will be in CFL... all depends on budget.

That quite alot of power, is that all CFL or HPS?, i only want to keep a single or two plants, i think the 150whps i've looked into should be plenty for that. The biggest thing of my concern that i've noticed so far with CFL's is gotta have side lighting to keep stretching to a minimum....havn't had much if any major stretching yet with any on this new grow, but top 2 nodes on leggy were somewhat more lengthy than lower on her, so i gotta keep light VERY close, and hopefully they'll fill in.....

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But ideally i'd like to grow two different strains, a heavy indica for night time and TV watching, and a small stature heavy CBD sativa of some sort, trippy as fk.....if there is one.

all CFL so far.

look into Jack Herrer for your Sativa choice... if it wasnt such a notorious pain in the ass and big bitch of a plant it would be one of my top choices to grow... maybe a Jack hybrid will fit your ticket.