Negotiations fail. Vulture capitalism finally kills Hostess.

Dr Kynes said:
self respect.
Click to expand...
As well as a steady paycheck that still drastically overpaid them for the work they performed. With the exception of the maintenance folk, the rest of them shouldn't have earned a dime over $10 an hour. I recently spent two days installing new blinds in a large bakery that supplies a majority of McDonald's buns in North Carolina. I got to observe these people first hand. Equating what they do to skilled work, is like comparing a 90 year old grandma sitting at the penny slots to a studied, veteran poker player at the final table of the WSOP.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
As well as a steady paycheck that still drastically overpaid them for the work they performed. With the exception of the maintenance folk, the rest of them shouldn't have earned a dime over $10 an hour. I recently spent two days installing new blinds in a large bakery that supplies a majority of McDonald's buns in North Carolina. I got to observe these people first hand. Equating what they do to skilled work, is like comparing a 90 year old grandma sitting at the penny slots to a studied, veteran poker player at the final table of the WSOP.
Click to expand...

And this illustrates a basic problem, one of perception. To Capital, Labor is a bunch of whining numbskulls who get in the way of the corporation's singular goal: to make money for the stockholders.
To Labor, Capital is a bunch of Monopoly players who'll squeeze every last drop of production from "human resources" while finding new and nefarious ways to reduce the payout.

As far as i can see, both views are correct. cn
 
cannabineer said:
And this illustrates a basic problem, one of perception. To Capital, Labor is a bunch of whining numbskulls who get in the way of the corporation's singular goal: to make money for the stockholders.
To Labor, Capital is a bunch of Monopoly players who'll squeeze every last drop of production from "human resources" while finding new and nefarious ways to reduce the payout.

As far as i can see, both views are correct. cn
Click to expand...

have i mentioned that youre smarter than the average bear today?

yogibear1.jpg
 
Bear,
That logically makes no sense. Labor is the Barnum effect. There's a sucker born every minute.You can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time.The problem is,the sucker part.Once you"wise up,"you're gone
 
MuyLocoNC said:
As well as a steady paycheck that still drastically overpaid them for the work they performed. With the exception of the maintenance folk, the rest of them shouldn't have earned a dime over $10 an hour. I recently spent two days installing new blinds in a large bakery that supplies a majority of McDonald's buns in North Carolina. I got to observe these people first hand. Equating what they do to skilled work, is like comparing a 90 year old grandma sitting at the penny slots to a studied, veteran poker player at the final table of the WSOP.
Click to expand...
Being upset because you see workers making more than you and wishing for them to lose their homes and their children to suffer is a serious sign of mental illness. Have you had fantasies about shooting up the place?
 
Canna Sylvan said:
Bear,
That logically makes no sense. Labor is the Barnum effect. There's a sucker born every minute.You can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time.The problem is,the sucker part.Once you"wise up,"you're gone
Click to expand...

Judging by the Hostess outcome, where folks are sincerely berating labor for standing up to capital's attempt to have their snack cake and eat it too, I would have to agree. Workers are the ultimate captive sucker: "take our deal ... or don't". It's this sort of shortsightedness that bred unions in the first place. Unions are very valuable in times of lack of restraint by capital. But once the capital/labor relationship has normalized, the union is still there, doing what it was made to do: champion the cause of labor, and ultimately ... simply keep itself going. So unions are at once indispensable and intolerable. It's part of the basic messiness of the human condition that reduces almost all armchair social philosophers to ... utopians. My opinion. cn
 
MuyLocoNC said:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/twinkies-return-hostess-unions/t/story?id=19043854&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dhostess%2520twinkie%2520plant%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CDAQqQIwAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fabcnews.go.com%252FBusiness%252Ftwinkies-return-hostess-unions%252Fstory%253Fid%253D19043854%26ei%3D5xd7UaHDIpL68QSn-YCgCw%26usg%3DAFQjCNErx1h2pcK_JRRHm8okshrloINcwQ%26bvm%3Dbv.45645796%2Cd.eWU

I can't wait to fill my pantry with twinkles now that they have the new and improved, delicious, nonunion, creamy filling. I wonder how many of the former union workers will be taking their old jobs back at far less than they were offered before the strike? Golly, I can't wait to sink my teeth into the sweet, tender, golden cakes of free market retribution.
Click to expand...

it's odd how you root for the people that would ream you in the ass if it made them three more cents.

but then again, you think lots of stupid stuff that makes no sense or has any basis in reality.
 
UncleBuck said:
it's odd how you root for the people that would ream you in the ass if it made them three more cents.

but then again, you think lots of stupid stuff that makes no sense or has any basis in reality.
Click to expand...

Once you factor in economies of scale, that three cents end up being a lot.
 
UncleBuck said:
too bad our little friend will never see a penny of it.
Click to expand...

Really? I retired in 2005 at the ripe old age of 36, old news. How do you know I'm not heavily invested in AINV? I have to park all this "curtain hanger" money somewhere, I might be a bit more diversified than just gold and silver.

Oh, I see. You have no investments worth mentioning and you certainly don't own gold or silver, so you think no one else does either. Investors are owners, chucklehead. They have an absolute right to celebrate corporate decisions that generate profit. Oh wait, I forgot, you ONLY defend the well being of the employees.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Investors are owners, chucklehead. They have an absolute right to celebrate corporate decisions that generate profit.
Click to expand...

you could always exploit foreigners for slave labor to generate more profit, i'm sure you would celebrate that given what we've witnessed from you in this thread.

but your absurdity aside, good job on rooting for an increase to the income inequality gap, which has never been greater since the great depression. but hey, no need to worry about that as well?

but hey, a few extra pennies in your stock portfolio and all morals can go out the window, amirite?
 
UncleBuck said:
you could always exploit foreigners for slave labor to generate more profit, i'm sure you would celebrate that given what we've witnessed from you in this thread.

but your absurdity aside, good job on rooting for an increase to the income inequality gap, which has never been greater since the great depression. but hey, no need to worry about that as well?

but hey, a few extra pennies in your stock portfolio and all morals can go out the window, amirite?
Click to expand...

Oh the shame, I feel so dirty for my capitalist tendencies. Please don't scorn me for a second time. After all, investors only provide the capital that makes the entire company possible, how dare we demand that management at least ATTEMPT to turn a profit.

I'm actually quite aware that a majority of the profitable companies I have investments in, do their manufacturing overseas. Exploit foreigners? Slave labor? Yeah, those folks are lining up around the block for the chance to be exploited. Earning 4X more money than they ever dreamed of making must be horrible. But you're the righteous champion of overseas laborers and you certainly aren't a hypocrite. So, I'm sure you don't own any products manufactured outside the US.

As to the income inequality gap, tough titties. There are no guarantees in life and there certainly isn't a fundamental right to a pleasing income. Human beings can make choices that lead to seven figure salaries, trophy wives and an expensive pile of bricks OR those choices can lead to a bottle of strawberry Boones Farm, McDonalds out of the dumpster and a cardboard shanty under the bridge. That hard truth is, no one but yourself is to blame for your lot in life. Overpaying someone for a job that can be done better and cheaper by a machine might make YOU feel better, but it won't keep the doors open.
 
Canna Sylvan said:
Bear,
That logically makes no sense. Labor is the Barnum effect. There's a sucker born every minute.You can fool some of the people all the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time.The problem is,the sucker part.Once you"wise up,"you're gone
Click to expand...

There is some. I had million in options expire worthless. The last batch, just this week. I believed them into the grave.

But, it not exactly that however...just suckers...just labor and mgt. It is Risk and Reward top to bottom. A sucker is one the that sits there and takes orders and doesn't move up, out, over, etc. We call them job huggers. And they are typically over qualified and should be helping the company at a higher level. Retired on the job, they say.

My brother in law is a good example. In a big insurance company. A claims adjuster. Well and as a senior manager I've had to do this to people. It not pretty, but they get big bucks, so it is necessary to paint a picture for their benefit.

He should have become a senior adjuster and moved up, had a team, responsible for a dept. But, no. He sat on the laurels, went as a field adjuster, didn't like that. So, back in the office, they decided that tough management call, and piled on. If the guy won't lead a team, which they need, then they gave him the work of 5 people.

Now he is out sick..emotional breakdown from what they forced on him and his wimpiness that he did not tell them to shove it and move up/over/out.

Yet, he only has 90 days and it will be worse when he gets back.

So all you guys that are now the age I used to be, this is how our system works. You can get like me, so burrowed into a job that now one else wants (the best situation) I'm like a tick. :)

Until then take charge, move up, direct the work of other people when you become experienced. A thought leader is not the manager. I count on my thought leaders. Your bosses will reward you, as I do my leaders.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Really? I retired in 2005 at the ripe old age of 36, old news. How do you know I'm not heavily invested in AINV? I have to park all this "curtain hanger" money somewhere, I might be a bit more diversified than just gold and silver.

Oh, I see. You have no investments worth mentioning and you certainly don't own gold or silver, so you think no one else does either. Investors are owners, chucklehead. They have an absolute right to celebrate corporate decisions that generate profit. Oh wait, I forgot, you ONLY defend the well being of the employees.
Click to expand...

I began salting my IRAs every year into Blue Chip Dividend stock, auto re-investment of Dividends. I'm done with stocks except for Coke, IBM, Oracle, etc.
 
MuyLocoNC said:
Oh the shame, I feel so dirty for my capitalist tendencies. Please don't scorn me for a second time. After all, investors only provide the capital that makes the entire company possible, how dare we demand that management at least ATTEMPT to turn a profit.

I'm actually quite aware that a majority of the profitable companies I have investments in, do their manufacturing overseas. Exploit foreigners? Slave labor? Yeah, those folks are lining up around the block for the chance to be exploited. Earning 4X more money than they ever dreamed of making must be horrible. But you're the righteous champion of overseas laborers and you certainly aren't a hypocrite. So, I'm sure you don't own any products manufactured outside the US.

As to the income inequality gap, tough titties. There are no guarantees in life and there certainly isn't a fundamental right to a pleasing income. Human beings can make choices that lead to seven figure salaries, trophy wives and an expensive pile of bricks OR those choices can lead to a bottle of strawberry Boones Farm, McDonalds out of the dumpster and a cardboard shanty under the bridge. That hard truth is, no one but yourself is to blame for your lot in life. Overpaying someone for a job that can be done better and cheaper by a machine might make YOU feel better, but it won't keep the doors open.
Click to expand...

 
Doer said:
There is some. I had million in options expire worthless. The last batch, just this week. I believed them into the grave.

But, it not exactly that however...just suckers...just labor and mgt. It is Risk and Reward top to bottom. A sucker is one the that sits there and takes orders and doesn't move up, out, over, etc. We call them job huggers. And they are typically over qualified and should be helping the company at a higher level. Retired on the job, they say.

My brother in law is a good example. In a big insurance company. A claims adjuster. Well and as a senior manager I've had to do this to people. It not pretty, but they get big bucks, so it is necessary to paint a picture for their benefit.

He should have become a senior adjuster and moved up, had a team, responsible for a dept. But, no. He sat on the laurels, went as a field adjuster, didn't like that. So, back in the office, they decided that tough management call, and piled on. If the guy won't lead a team, which they need, then they gave him the work of 5 people.

Now he is out sick..emotional breakdown from what they forced on him and his wimpiness that he did not tell them to shove it and move up/over/out.

Yet, he only has 90 days and it will be worse when he gets back.

So all you guys that are now the age I used to be, this is how our system works. You can get like me, so burrowed into a job that now one else wants (the best situation) I'm like a tick. :)

Until then take charge, move up, direct the work of other people when you become experienced. A thought leader is not the manager. I count on my thought leaders. Your bosses will reward you, as I do my leaders.
Click to expand...

I'm my own boss and employee in one. It'd be weird if that applied to me. I do freelance.The only risk is when no one else has your interest. It happens but rarely, and when it does no one else is to blame.
 
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