Prove to you There's a God?

Marlboro47 said:

Thats my beef with Jesus, he said fuck everyone else because they don't wanna change. Now im wondering about the future generations, if we could actually be saved, or maybe it was just those who saw Jesus at that time who can be saved.

Click to expand...

its kinda funny also, because it was mostly jews that didnt listen, no one is a prophet in their own country perhaps...

dunno about saved, i feel quite safe.

and i feel that way because of my own explorations.

not because of some book.

mindphuk said:

I just told you how Herod could not have been alive when Jesus was born. If he was alive, then Luke was wrong about the Census of Quirinius which was 10 years after Herod's death. Matthew and Luke cannot both be right. The book you rely so heavily on is terribly flawed with contradictions.

Click to expand...

Herod died shortly after Jesus's birth.

Perhaps the bible is just a moral guideline.

Marlboro47 said:

Herod died shortly after Jesus's birth.

Click to expand...

Herod died in 4 BCE. When do you think Jesus was born? If he was born when Herod was alive, then the Census of Quirinius that took place in 6-7 CE demonstrates Luke was wrong.

mindphuk said:

A person named Jesus was mentioned by Josephus but one of the quotes appears to have been added later, a forgery.

Click to expand...

ah ok, i didnt really research into that, wasnt that interested by then

i rather believe jesus might have existed, some of the quotes indicate that (talk of love and forgiveness)

but then again it couldave been copied from the buddhist religion or jesus been a convert of that, changed to be used as a weapon of the roman empire..

but i dont know, doesnt matter, some good philosophical truth in there and some spiritual, but not alot, and there is far richer mines elsewhere.

though actual jewish mysticism and cabbala and stuff like that is quite interesting and on par with much elsewhere.

but its the same with buddha,

he probably existed and was a thinker and a talker.

and people listened, but i doubt he ever grew roses out of his footsteps. not literally...

same with jesus.

there is some good shit there, indicative of some good thinking and spiritual exploring, but there is also indication of much tampering with these texts.

all written long after the fact, by humans that tend to exaggerate at best or simply lie to gain something.

so hey.

stuff best not taken too seriously.

metaltooths said:

Perhaps the bible is just a moral guideline.

Click to expand...

depends..

new testament talks of love and forgiveness, but also tearing out your eyes if they "offend thee" and stuff like that..

old testament, talks of "thou shalt not kill" but talks of stoning to death your eldest son if he backtalks you (and that you should do it in front of everyone and get them to help )

so, yeah, depends on what page you are on and what sorta morality we are talking about

sso said:

no, but thats the jewish belief.



can you give me a quote on where jesus talked of the afterlife?

Click to expand...

I can't give you a quote, but there are multiple things he says happens after death.

Theres one saying that when you die you will wait until you hear Jesus calling, and if you believe you will have the strength to wake up and go to him(which is judgement).
Also, He says that after everyone dies we all get burned in hell to cleanse us of sin. And if we believe in Christ we will be able to die in hell and be born again in heaven.

mindphuk said:

Herod died in 4 BCE. When do you think Jesus was born? If he was born when Herod was alive, then the Census of Quirinius that took place in 6-7 CE demonstrates Luke was wrong.

Click to expand...

Some history teachers sad BC was before christ and AD was after death. But then others say it had nothing to do with Christ's birth and death. So I wouldn't know the exact dates unfortaunately.

metaltooths said:

Perhaps the bible is just a moral guideline.

Click to expand...

There is nothing of morality that is original with Jesus and the OT is a horrendously immoral book.

Marlboro47 said:

Some history teachers sad BC was before christ and AD was after death. But then others say it had nothing to do with Christ's birth and death. So I wouldn't know the exact dates unfortaunately.

Click to expand...

That's not the point I'm making. If you place Jesus' birth before Herod's death like Matthew says, that would be about 5 BCE. Jesus would then have been 10-11 around the time of the Census of Quirinius which was taking place when Jesus was just born according to Luke. Tell me how they both can be correct.

mindphuk said:

That's not the point I'm making. If you place Jesus' birth before Herod's death like Matthew says, that would be about 5 BCE. Jesus would then have been 10-11 around the time of the Census of Quirinius which was taking place when Jesus was just born according to Luke. Tell me how they both can be correct.

Click to expand...

I know that they wrote the books in different times(40-50years apart give or take ), and that people have the ability to change words in the bible. So I would choose to believe Matthew over Luke. Matthew has more Jesus quotes so it would be harder to change. Can you tell me which chapter in Luke it talks about the birth of Jesus and death of herod?

all questions can now be answered..i found jesus...he is locked in my trunk...let me see what he says..............well it turns out he isnt the real jesus...jesus is his name but he washes dishes at olive garden....so never mind....carry on

marlboro..

its great you take comfort in this and personally i think you can believe whatever fairytale you want, if it makes you feel better. just dont push it too much lol..

but..

this is kinda one of those deals

"hey dude! im now a christian!"

"whats that?"

"oh i believe in jesus and get saved from my sins"

"what sins and who is jesus?"

"he´s the son of god that died for our sins so we could go to heaven and dont have to burn in hell forever"

"what sins and god who? and whats heaven? we die to go there? why do we have to die to go there? and who told you this?

burn in hell forever?

....did he ask for money?"


"oh only a tenth of everything i own and produce but i get to go to heaven for sure"

and thats the deal.

the only guys peddling this faith, for hundreds of years.

were also the guys that sold salvation, literally, for cash.

and told people that the pope was the equal of god on earth.

among other things

the ONLY guys on the PLANET

that were peddling this (before a sect broke off into lutheranism and so on..)

so, you expect anyone with a half a brain to buy this?

Captain X said:

all questions can now be answered..i found jesus...he is locked in my trunk...let me see what he says..............well it turns out he isnt the real jesus...jesus is his name but he washes dishes at olive garden....so never mind....carry on

Click to expand...

i thought jesus was last seen in the ass of that dog?

Marlboro47 said:

I know that they wrote the books in different times(40-50years apart give or take ), and that people have the ability to change words in the bible. So I would choose to believe Matthew over Luke. Matthew has more Jesus quotes so it would be harder to change. Can you tell me which chapter in Luke it talks about the birth of Jesus and death of herod?

Click to expand...

Surely, the slaughter of every male child in Bethlehem, Ramah, and the surrounding area would have got mentioned in many places, such as Josephus' detailed accounts of the times yet it is only mentioned in Matthew. Luke doesn't mention Herod as I already pointed out, he mentions the Census:

This account places the birth of Jesus a full 10 years after the death of Herod. What exactly are you unclear about. I have explained this 3 times.

Matthew appears to be a copy of Mark as it includes about 90% of Mark. He then goes on and corrects some of Mark's errors but adds his own embellishment such as the Roman pagan myths of great heroes being born to virgins, riding on TWO donkeys (a misreading of Zechariah 9:9) and events such as darkness and earthquakes occurring at the time of the crucifixion that surely would have been noticed by other writers in that region or any other region for that matter.

Marlboro47 said:

I know that they wrote the books in different times(40-50years apart give or take ), and that people have the ability to change words in the bible. So I would choose to believe Matthew over Luke. Matthew has more Jesus quotes so it would be harder to change. Can you tell me which chapter in Luke it talks about the birth of Jesus and death of herod?

Click to expand...

You admit that man could have change the bible yet you still accept it as truth?

mindphuk said:

You admit that man could have change the bible yet you still accept it as truth?

Click to expand...

They could of easily changed little things. But the Idea that Jesus is our savior can't be changed.

plus, do you even know who started the church?

(and the only church that was around for millennia (thousand years))

the roman empire

this emperor, well, he was losing this war and his soldier were all demoralized.

many of these soldiers were christian or enough so inclined.

so he had a dream, where he dream they would win the war (Actual war over territory, nothin sacred about it, just a fat guy wanting more)

if they fought under a banner with a cross on it.

and they did and won. (thou shalt not kill, dont be greedy, and so on..lol)

and thats the start of the holy roman empire. (well the latest chapters anyway.)

its not exactly a church started by jesus and all written down by him.

its more akin to the devil having started that church. (wasnt it the romans that killed jesus, at the behest of some jews?)

so how can you believe anything in the bible?

well, i think the reason you can believe in the bible, is because you know nothing of it

Marlboro47 said:

They could of easily changed little things. But the Idea that Jesus is our savior can't be changed.

Click to expand...

how exactly is he your savior?

and how do you know they didnt change whatever they wanted and made it all up to suit them?

they burned all books they didnt agree with (The church, same as the nazis later on)

and the only folks that were allowed to even read the bible were priests (heavily indoctrinated men that told what they were told to say, so they wouldnt lose their luxuries (though in some cases, their life or if they were really brainwashed, life after death kept them on a leash)

they hoarded all knowledge for a thousand years.

and tried to limit mans education (similar to pol pot )

so, you cant really trust anything thats in the bible.

sso said:

how exactly is he your savior?

and how do you know they didnt change whatever they wanted and made it all up to suit them?

they burned all books they didnt agree with (The church, same as the nazis later on)

and the only folks that were allowed to even read the bible were priests (heavily indoctrinated men that told what they were told to say, so they wouldnt lose their luxuries (though in some cases, their life or if they were really brainwashed, life after death kept them on a leash)

they hoarded all knowledge for a thousand years.

and tried to limit mans education (similar to pol pot )

so, you cant really trust anything thats in the bible.

Click to expand...

He died purposley for humans to get into heaven.