romney committed a federal felony?

S

SisterMaryElephant

Active Member
"Equality, in a social sense, may be divided into that of condition, and that of rights. Equality of condition is incompatible with civilization, and is found only to exist in those communities that are but slightly removed from the savage state. In practice, it can only mean a common misery." -- James Fenimore Cooper


Kind of sounds like your dirty hippy commune... :D
 
S

SisterMaryElephant

Active Member
Since leftists hate it then you point out the inherit flaws in socialism, how about the 1620's experiment that FAILED like socialism always does:

"[SIZE=+1]The American socialist experiment[/SIZE]

The American socialist experiment
By Charles F. Wickwire
web posted September 2, 2002

On November 11, 1620, the Mayflower landed at Plymouth Rock. The ship lay at anchor until March, the pilgrims living onboard while permanent housing was being built. When the Mayflower finally left, 27 adults and 23 children were left of the 102 people who set out across the ocean. Their governor was William Bradford and under his leadership, these first Americans began to make a new life in the New World.
What very few Americans today know is this very first colony on the shores of America started out as a socialist colony. The Pilgrims at Plymouth set up a common store that worked on the principle of "From Each According To His Ability - To Each According To His Need". Everything that the colony produced was placed in the common store and was then distributed out as needed.
For two years the colony worked to create a socialist Utopia but even with an additional 30 settlers who arrived a year after the Mayflower, the colony barely survived. Each winter the colonist would go hungry being reduced to rations of a quarter pound of bread at times. Governor Bradford relates his experiences concerning the socialist state he had helped to create:
"The experience that was had in this commone course and condition, tired sundrie years, and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanitie of that conceite of Platos and other ancients, applauded by some of later times; --that the taking away of propertie, and bringing in communitie into a comone wealth would make them happy and florishing; as if they were wiser than God. For this comunitie (so farr as it was) was found to breed much confusion and discontente, and retard much imployment that would have been to their benefite and comforte. For the yong-men that were most able and fitte for labour and service did repine that they should spend their time and streingth to worke for other mens wives and children, with out any recompense. The strong, or man of parts, had no more in divission of victails and cloaths, than he that was weake and not able to doe a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalised in labours, and victuals, cloaths, etc., with the meaner and younger sorte, thought it some indignite and disrespect unto them. And for men's wives to be commanded to doe service for other men, as dresing their meate, washing their cloaths, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brooke it. "
Finally, in 1623, Governor Bradford called a meeting to discuss how to have a more productive growing season and be better prepared for the next winter. Governor Bradford writes:
'All this while no supply was heard of, neither knew they when they might expecte any. So they [the pilgims] begane to thinke how they might raise as much corne as they could, and obtaine a beter crope than they had done, that they might not still thus languish in miserie. At length after much debate of things, the Gov. (with the advise of the cheefest amongest them) gave way that they should set downe every man for his owne perticuler, and in that regard trust to themselves... And so assigned to every family a parceel of land. This had very good success; for it made all hands very industrious, so as much more corne was planted than other waise would have bene by any means the Gov. or any other could use, and saved him a great deall of trouble, and gave farr better contente. The women now wente willingly into the feild, and tooke their litle-ons with them to set corne, which before would aledge weakness, and inabilitie; whom to have compelled would have bene thought great tiranie and opression."
It was at this meeting between Governor Bradford and the chief members of the colony that the American free enterprise system was born. Governor Bradford writes about the results of this system:
"By this time harvest was come, and instead of famine, now God gave them plentie, and the face of things was changed, to the rejoysing of the harts of many, for which they blessed God. And in the effect of their perticular planting was well seene, for all had, one way and other, pretty well to bring the year aboute, and some of the abler sorte and more industrious had to spare, and sell to others, 50 as any generall wante of famine hath not been amongest them since to this day."
This little known failed experiment in American socialism isn't taught in today's schools. If it was, our children might grow up to doubt governmental programs that redistribute wealth "from each according to his ability - too each according to his need."
Source: William Bradford, History of Plymouth Plantation, 1620-1647"


I love the excuses socialists give... :D
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Dr Kynes said:
Those are opinions, not facts. FACT.

medicare and medicaid are Social programs not socialist. they are paid for with open understandable taxes, and you are not forced to participate in the program (you will pay the tax for it) If your house catches on fire, your local fire dept tax pays off as a benefit to you. if your house never catches fire, aww fuck! thats socialism! you may disagree with the program, lobby for its change or elimination, or its expansion if you want, but keep the rhetoric on tight and on subject. anything else is just jingoism

medicare, social security and medicaid do NOT NOT NOTrepresent more than 50% of federal spending. The defense department and homeland security do.

now its 70% of federal spending? i dont know where you get your numbers but the last budget we had was Dubya's last one in 2008, plus the baseline expenditure increases built into that budget. you certainly aint getting your numbers from that budget, nor from the continuing resolutions which just basically say "Ditto. Give us one more year just like that last one"

the only time i ever even heard number like yours was from The American Enterprise Institute, a right wing blabberbox (they call themselves a think tank) who made a lot of wild speculations and weird impossible projections based on worst case apocalyptic scenarios to come up with most of federal spending going to social(ist) programs by 2020. it was specious bullshit then, and still is now. all of america's social programs together are merely a drop of piss in an ocean of diarrhea.

if you get your numbers from crazy people, and make speculations like a crazy person, people might start to think you're crazy.
Click to expand...
I really stopped paying attention to SisterMaryTheElephant when she used the "Heritage group" as her sole source of the place she gets her info. I did find it funny, so I did appreciate the laugh she gave me.
 
noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
Fact - The Mayflower never actually landed at Plymouth Rock - they landed at Provincetown on Cape Cod

I love it when all these ignorant right wing dumbasses throw around the socialist card. You know what, if you are so against socialism, then stop using the public library, stop using public schools, stop using public transportation, (yea public school, public libraries, and public transportation in your terminology is socialism), do your parents receive a social security check each month, if so don't let them use it and send it back to the government, I bet you sure used that stimulus check you got right? If socialism is using tax payers money to provide a service then wouldn't public defenders be socialism? What about judges, the police, firefighters, all paid through tax payers money = socialism. Who cares about having roads. Stop going to the park with your family, you should have to pay to see nature right?

I worked with a guy who was always complaining about Democrats working towards a socialist agenda. So I asked him one day if he lost his job would he file for unemployment, if he had to get food stamps to feed his family would he use them? This guy trying hard to defend his opinion, said he wouldn't file for unemployment, wouldn't use food stamps, and sure enough a few months later he got fired.....I'm sure he changed his tone quickly on that one. Lets not give low income students grants to go to college, that's socialism. That way we can fall further behind in the world with education.

Here is what socialism does in the health care industry, and remember, these are real rankings by the World Health Organization on health care efficiency. Who ranks number 1 in the world......FRANCE.....uh oh, #2...Italy....#3 San Marino.....#4 Andora.....#5 Malta followed by Singapore, Spain, Oman, Austria, Japan, Norway, Portugal, Monaco, Greece, Iceland, Luxemburg, Netherlands (AWESOME country), United Kingdom, Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, Colombia, Sweden, Cyprus, Germany, Saudi Arabia (for real?) United Arab Emirates, Israel, Morocco, Canada,........man where is the Untied States? lets finish the list, next is Finland, Australia, Chile, Denmark, Dominica, Costa Rica, and finally the United States ranking in at number 37 on the list, down from number 35, and these reports were taken before "Obamacare" was even thought of. Right behind USA is Slovenia and Cuba.

So yea, our health care industry was working just great right? Why is that pretty much every country that is ranked higher in the list than America is a "Socialist" country, that has a universal health system? Numbers are a bitch because they don't lie.
 
B

beenthere

New Member
noxiously said:
I love it when all these ignorant right wing dumbasses throw around the socialist card. You know what, if you are so against socialism, then stop using the public library, stop using public schools, stop using public transportation, (yea public school, public libraries, and public transportation in your terminology is socialism)
Click to expand...


I love it when ignorant left wing dumbasses throw around the capitalist card. You know what, if you are so against capitalism then stop using the public library, stop using public schools, stop using public transportation, yea public school, public libraries, and public transportation, because capitalism funds absolutely all of it my friend.
 
noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
The lowest ranked countries on that list are all African countries. Are they a socialist country....far from it.

Sure, everything has a good side and a bad side. Not saying socialism is all good, because it isn't. In that sense, being strictly capitalism isn't all good either. I'll even go as far to admit that in a perfect world, Reagans trickle down effect would actually be a better system, but in reality, the trickle down never takes effect. You lower the taxes on the wealthiest, that way they have even more money to spend, they spend that money by building new companies, expanding the ones that already exist, and that in turn results in more people having jobs, which puts more money in peoples pockets, which results in more money flowing into the economy and that stimulates growth all the way around. Sounds awesome to me, I would actually like to have that system, even though I am a Dem. but like I said, in reality it doesn't work because these corporate assholes never let that money trickle down, the furthest it gets is into their own pockets.

Capitalism breeds greed, socialism atleast gives the poor a fighting chance. If it wasn't for atleast a little bit of socialism there would never be a middle class. People in the lower class category would never be able to build themselves up to be atleast middle class. Stop being such greedy bastards and let someone else try to do something good with their lives. I went to college, with the help of student loans cause making $9.50 an hr was too much for me to get a grant, and now I have a half way decent paying job, and I pay more in taxes than people who make less than me. Oh well, I don't care because I can afford it, and if I can help some little kid eat then I'll pay higher taxes every year if I had too because I make enough for myself (not greedy). Sure there are alot of people who take advantage of the system, they don't work, get food stamps, title 20, pipp plans, etc. all on the working stiffs dime, but you know what, they sure as hell aren't living a rich life. They live welfare check to welfare check, don't have crap to claim as their own, their children don't get good meals, they don't get to wear nice clothes. I grew up in the ghetto and still live in the ghetto and have seen how it works first hand, no one is getting rich off of anyone elses taxes except these huge corporations that get huge tax breaks because capitalism is the only one right way to do things.
 
noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
I love it when ignorant left wing dumbasses throw around the capitalist card. You know what, if you are so against capitalism then stop using the public library, stop using public schools, stop using public transportation, yea public school, public libraries, and public transportation, because capitalism funds absolutely all of it my friend.
Click to expand...

How does capitalism fund all of them? I bet you are going to say that capitalism funds them all because without jobs then the government couldn't collect taxes to pay for these things, and capitalism is what is controlling the job market, am I right, that's what you was going to say wasn't it? lol But if you had it your way you wouldn't pay taxes into those systems because that's socialism. Think about it dipshit....one can't survive without the other. People are not generous enough to give their hard earned dollars away, that's why the government has to step in and take it to help fund the things that make this country better than third world countries.

I got one question for you; If the government didn't take taxes, and gave people the option to pay taxes or not, how many people in America would pay taxes?
 
noxiously

noxiously

Well-Known Member
Antidisestablishmentarian said:
FYI, numbers CAN lie.

Example: unemployment rate.
Click to expand...
HA, we all know who couldn't pass basic math. The numbers don't lie, it's the people who misinterpret those numbers. I can show you true numbers as to how the unemployment rate has been declining every since Obama took office, sure it's still higher than years past, thanks to who of course, the right wingers and their Messiah Bush. But atleast Obama put things into play that helped people get back to work. All of the experts were saying it would take atleast 10 years for America to get back on track, Obama can't do it in 4, he can set the pavers but it won't happen, even if he gets a second term, we still won't be back to the good days of a balanced budget, lowest unemployment rates, lowest poverty levels, since who of course....Clinton. I know how much you simple minded, one idea, right wingers hate to hear Clintons name, the only reason is because you can't deny how great of a job he did, not congress, but Clinton himself.


Clinton Clinton Clinton.....I think I just made a republican cry.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
SisterMaryElephant said:
I don't have to substantiate opinion. The other option is to point out that you don't count. What you want and demand mean nothing in the real world nor even here. I say they are socialist for obvious reasons but I owe you nothing. Typ[ical liberal think they're entitled to things they aren't. :D

So, while retarded trolls want to debate whether the programs are "socialist" or not, 47 of them still account for 70% and climbing. I don't blame idiots for trying to change the subject but it wont work. ;)


Medicare/medicaid are, indeed, 2 "of" the socialist programs. FACT.
Medicare/medicaid/SS are more than 50% of federal spending. FACT
Medicare/medicaid/SS and 44 other dependence programs are eating up 70% of federal spending. FACT
Socialist dependence programs are mostly responsible for the economic decline. FACT

If you're just not smart enough to handle the subjective, the accurate or the truth, just pretend the word socialist isn't there. Whatever helps the short yellow bus crowd sleep at night. :D
Click to expand...
Thank you for your honest and informative reply. You have confirmed beyond redemption that you are here as an unadorned pathogen. You are excused from meaningful debate, and from further consideration. cn
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
noxiously said:
The lowest ranked countries on that list are all African countries. Are they a socialist country....far from it.

Sure, everything has a good side and a bad side. Not saying socialism is all good, because it isn't. In that sense, being strictly capitalism isn't all good either. I'll even go as far to admit that in a perfect world, Reagans trickle down effect would actually be a better system, but in reality, the trickle down never takes effect. You lower the taxes on the wealthiest, that way they have even more money to spend, they spend that money by building new companies, expanding the ones that already exist, and that in turn results in more people having jobs, which puts more money in peoples pockets, which results in more money flowing into the economy and that stimulates growth all the way around. Sounds awesome to me, I would actually like to have that system, even though I am a Dem. but like I said, in reality it doesn't work because these corporate assholes never let that money trickle down, the furthest it gets is into their own pockets.

Capitalism breeds greed, socialism atleast gives the poor a fighting chance. If it wasn't for atleast a little bit of socialism there would never be a middle class. People in the lower class category would never be able to build themselves up to be atleast middle class. Stop being such greedy bastards and let someone else try to do something good with their lives. I went to college, with the help of student loans cause making $9.50 an hr was too much for me to get a grant, and now I have a half way decent paying job, and I pay more in taxes than people who make less than me. Oh well, I don't care because I can afford it, and if I can help some little kid eat then I'll pay higher taxes every year if I had too because I make enough for myself (not greedy). Sure there are alot of people who take advantage of the system, they don't work, get food stamps, title 20, pipp plans, etc. all on the working stiffs dime, but you know what, they sure as hell aren't living a rich life. They live welfare check to welfare check, don't have crap to claim as their own, their children don't get good meals, they don't get to wear nice clothes. I grew up in the ghetto and still live in the ghetto and have seen how it works first hand, no one is getting rich off of anyone elses taxes except these huge corporations that get huge tax breaks because capitalism is the only one right way to do things.
Click to expand...

man, id everybody in this thread flogging nonsense they dont understand?

capitalism is not evil, socialism is not good, all taxes are not socialism, all profit is not theft, individual failure is not the fault of either the federal governemnt or a coroporate conspiracy (unless there actually is govt or corporate malfeasance, in which case, take it to the courts). all social programs are not an example of apostate marxist wickedness, or angelic marxist purity of purpose.

heres some information that might help you figure out why both you and sistermaryelephant are wrong as wrong can get.



Marxism: detailing and dealing with the (harebrained) philosophies of Karl Marx, a pampered bouregois German political philosopher, and Beard Aficionado from the late 19th century. his wcky idead have failed every time they are tried, and only take root in the fertile ignorance of dimwitted peasant mobs or dopey college kids looking for a new cause to embrace after they finish their first Poli Sci lecture.

Communism: a fantasyland where all the pretty ponies share everything. there is no currency, markets, personal property, government, or authority. everyone shares and shares alike, it's not Your apple, it's THE apple. any-pony who wants to take a bite may simply do so, and no-pony objects, because apparently in equestria apples grow free and wild, requiring no effort or maintenence, provide their bounty all year long, require no storage or any other measures to prepare for winter. Every-pony works, every-pony pays, every-pony shares, every-pony benefits. how? no-pony can say. Protip: read the ant and the grasshopper kids.

http://www.dltk-teach.com/fables/grasshopper/mstory.htm

Socialism: A middle ground designed to facilitate the "re-education" of the foolish workers who think they own the sweat of their brow into the wisdom of communist marxist thought. a little bit of propaganda and a lot of force over many years will eventually demonstrate the rightness of marxist communist ideology. once everybody understands the genius of marx, the politburo will release their control, disband their forces, throw open the doors to their dachas, and embrace their simple new life as peasant farmers just like everyone else. if you believe that youre not paying attention.


Capitalism: you own yourself, you own your sweat, you own the fruits of your labour, and anyone who wants a piece of your action must trade you something of value with your consent for your efforts. lack of perfection, and fairness does not invalidate the idea, the long track record of success demonstrated by capitalism through the ages (republican rome to the USA) speaks for itself. where there is more capitalism, there is more success,, up to a point, where the greedy acquisitive nature of certain persons results in their embracing variously slavery, violence, extortion, and fraud to enrich themselves. as long as the depraved urges of the lowest common denominator are kept in check by regulations designed to prevent fraud, theft, or violence, capitalism builds great societies. (not to be confused with The Great Society)

Anarchism: uncontrolled unrestrained freedom from all concerns save one's own base desires. the guy with the gun makes the rules, the next guy with a gun makes new rules, the next guys makes new ones too, until you get a gun, you have to follow these rules or get shot in the face. it's the communist utopia revealed as the Fruitopia it would ultimately become. see Fallout 3 and Mad Max for more details.

Society: mutual sharing to promote the common good. if you dont want to pay any taxes, go live in ted kaczynski's cabin and write your manifesto in your own feces, and spare us all your mischief.
 
B

beenthere

New Member
noxiously said:
Click to expand...
Your chart is an Obama proposed budget knuckle head.

You conveniently left out the heading above the graph, so I'll fix that for you.

''President Obama's $3.8 trillion budget proposal for fiscal year 2011 includes billions to put people back to work and imposes new fees on some of the nation's largest banks."

Here, you can use these figures of actual federal spending and add the percentages up!

I came up with a total of 20% in defense spending and 54% on SS, medicare/medicaid and other federal social programs. Nice try!

BTW, go ahead with your attempt to attack my source, and rots a ruck.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

Defense and international security assistance: In 2011, 20 percent of the budget, or $718 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities.

Social Security: Another 20 percent of the budget, or $731 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided retirement benefits averaging $1,229 per month to 35.6 million retired workers in December 2011.

Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs - Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) - together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2011, or $769 billion.

Safety net programs: About 13 percent of the federal budget in 2011, or $466 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.
 
Antidisestablishmentarian

Antidisestablishmentarian

Well-Known Member
noxiously said:
HA, we all know who couldn't pass basic math. The numbers don't lie, it's the people who misinterpret those numbers. I can show you true numbers as to how the unemployment rate has been declining every since Obama took office, sure it's still higher than years past, thanks to who of course, the right wingers and their Messiah Bush. But atleast Obama put things into play that helped people get back to work. All of the experts were saying it would take atleast 10 years for America to get back on track, Obama can't do it in 4, he can set the pavers but it won't happen, even if he gets a second term, we still won't be back to the good days of a balanced budget, lowest unemployment rates, lowest poverty levels, since who of course....Clinton. I know how much you simple minded, one idea, right wingers hate to hear Clintons name, the only reason is because you can't deny how great of a job he did, not congress, but Clinton himself.


Clinton Clinton Clinton.....I think I just made a republican cry.
Click to expand...
You do realize I gave no opinion about anything other than numbers can lie, right?

Way to make up my opinions for me, bucko.

Numbers can lie.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
SisterMaryElephant said:
C'mon doc, where are those modern successful socialist utopian societies? Still up in oregon near the border? In the White House? Are you going to be sad or mad when obamacare is repealed next year? :D
Click to expand...
actually they are COMMUNES, voluntary associations. their success is determined by their continuance despite the members being able to walk away any time they like, yet many stay. if a hippie is unhappy in one commune he can join another or go square any time he wants. THEY get to decide if they are happy, you dont get to make that call for them.

if you want an example of a communal association which is successful in every measurable way, look up Blue Diamond Growers co-op.

if all taxes that fund programs you dont know if you benefit from are socialist, then we should all flee to cuba and north korea. you never walked on the moon, so Nasa is a socialist boondoggle. you werent even born during WW2, so the fight against the nazis was a socialist war of aggression. your house aint never flooded so levees and storm drains is socialist claptrap! you aint never had no poison water so your municipal water supply must be a communist conspiracy.

stop throwing bricks through your own windows, youre not a very successful troll. You are more like a 1/2 hit die goblin. i dont need your 1d4+1 coppers and tattered loincloth.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:
Your chart is an Obama proposed budget knuckle head.

You conveniently left out the heading above the graph, so I'll fix that for you.

''President Obama's $3.8 trillion budget proposal for fiscal year 2011 includes billions to put people back to work and imposes new fees on some of the nation's largest banks."

Here, you can use these figures of actual federal spending and add the percentages up!

I came up with a total of 20% in defense spending and 54% on SS, medicare/medicaid and other federal social programs. Nice try!

BTW, go ahead with your attempt to attack my source, and rots a ruck.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

Defense and international security assistance: In 2011, 20 percent of the budget, or $718 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities.

Social Security: Another 20 percent of the budget, or $731 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided retirement benefits averaging $1,229 per month to 35.6 million retired workers in December 2011.

Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs - Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) - together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2011, or $769 billion.

Safety net programs: About 13 percent of the federal budget in 2011, or $466 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.
Click to expand...
first of all bro, social security medicare and medicaid as well as disability insurance etc are separate from general fund spending. they are financed by their own dedicated taxes (all excess is then looted for general spending, but the funds are separate as is the spending) including social securit (by your own numbers it's adding to the revenue stream, not reducing it $935 mil incoming, and only $731 outgoing) jamming together unrelated subjects to alter the numbers is disingenuous.


spending should be categorized in a reasonable way, or not lumped together at all.

your source is quite suspect. their data source is the estimates for 2011 from OMB, and "historical" data from 2013?????? with no budget, and only continuing resolutions both sides get to play fast and loose with projections estimates and wild guesses, but i never even heard of anybody claiming "historical" figures from the future. sounds like they got the De Lorean up to 88 mph and still had enough plutonium to make a trip to fantasyland.
 
B

beenthere

New Member
Dr Kynes said:
first of all bro, social security medicare and medicaid as well as disability insurance etc are separate from general fund spending. they are financed by their own dedicated taxes (all excess is then looted for general spending, but the funds are separate as is the spending) including social securit (by your own numbers it's adding to the revenue stream, not reducing it $935 mil incoming, and only $731 outgoing) jamming together unrelated subjects to alter the numbers is disingenuous.


spending should be categorized in a reasonable way, or not lumped together at all.

I was unaware the debate was limited to discretionary spending!

So I'm not sure where you're coming from bud, you're bringing up mandatory spending as if it should not be counted in the budget, you are wrong. Obviously social security, medicare and medicaid are not discretionary but they are a part of our annual deficit and national debt.




your source is quite suspect. their data source is the estimates for 2011 from OMB, and "historical" data from 2013?????? with no budget, and only continuing resolutions both sides get to play fast and loose with projections estimates and wild guesses, but i never even heard of anybody claiming "historical" figures from the future. sounds like they got the De Lorean up to 88 mph and still had enough plutonium to make a trip to fantasyland.
Click to expand...

I think you are a bit confused and mistaken. The source, George Soros funded Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, I purposely linked to discredit any kind of conservative bias whining from Noxiously. And I believe the historical data was from 2011 not 2013, unless of course you can point out otherwise.
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
beenthere said:

I think you are a bit confused and mistaken. The source, George Soros funded Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, I purposely linked to discredit any kind of conservative bias whining from Noxiously. And I believe the historical data was from 2011 not 2013, unless of course you can point out otherwise.
Click to expand...
[h=1]George Soros to California: Legalize recreational marijuana, endorse Proposition 19[/h]
BY ALIYAH SHAHID
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Tuesday, October 26, 2010

George Soros supports your right to toke.
The multibillionaire investor said he supports a California law that would legalize the recreational use of marijuana in the state.
"Proposition 19 already is a winner no matter what happens on Election Day," Soros, 80, said in an opinion piece published by The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday.
"The mere fact of its being on the ballot has elevated and legitimized public discourse about marijuana and marijuana policy in ways I could not have imagined a year ago."


 
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