Smart or Stupid

OddBall1st said:

You also overlook the Tomahawk (1,700 mile range, multiple warhead) and sea sparrow (AAA) missiles on board a modern Iowa. Not many know of the canister depth charges on board too.

Take a good close look at one someday.

Click to expand...

Future:





Past:




New ships are stealth and designed from the ground up to be efficient.

The Iowa no longer has purpose. Smaller, lighter ships, that are faster and harder to hit can do the same jobs, from further away, more effectively.

Where on earth did you get the idea that an Iowa can outrun torpedo's?

Beefbisquit said:

Future:

Past:

New ships are stealth and designed from the ground up to be efficient.

The Iowa no longer has purpose. Smaller, lighter ships, that are faster and harder to hit can do the same jobs, from further away, more effectively.

Click to expand...

The future ship, Zumwalt was cancelled. 50 were ordered. Nine yrs,. later, two exist , one complete and one near complete. Just to get out of it. You had to be there for that debate with a congressman and one of the ship`s designers. He couldn`t understand how his creation was more vulnerable than an older Burke Class. He was set straight. We never heard from him again.

The past ship, is still floating and would kick that thing all over the sea. So would a Russian Kirov Class.

Did you know about the barge that Zumwalt has to frequent to re-load just to stay in the fight ? "hold the war,....I`ll be right back, but don`t follow me to the barge, you aint supposed to know where it is."

tip top toker said:

Where on earth did you get the idea that an Iowa can outrun torpedo's?

Click to expand...

Because it can.

OddBall1st said:

Because it can.

Click to expand...

It can outrun some. Hell, they made torpedo's in the early 1900s that were faster than Iowa class boats. They now make torpedo's capable of well beyond 100 knots. But sure, let's just make a blanket statement saying it can outrun torpedo's to try and add credibility to your argument. Or are you saying that the Iowa class is capable of nearly 200 knots?

That's like trying to argue a plane is a stealth bomber because it can't be picked up by ww1 radar

OddBall1st said:

The future ship, Zumwalt was cancelled. 50 were ordered. Nine yrs,. later, two exist , one complete and one near complete. Just to get out of it. You had to be there for that debate with a congressman and one of the ship`s designers. He couldn`t understand how his creation was more vulnerable than an older Burke Class. He was set straight. We never heard from him again.

The past ship, is still floating and would kick that thing all over the sea. So would a Russian Kirov Class.

Did you know about the barge that Zumwalt has to frequent to re-load just to stay in the fight ? "hold the war,....I`ll be right back, but don`t follow me to the barge, you aint supposed to know where it is."

Click to expand...

The point is that the Iowa is a legacy ship.

There are better designs than those of antiquated battleships. Faster ships, that are harder to hit, offer radar protection, and can lay down just as much firepower.

Not to mention you can just launch planes from a carrier.... the 20mi range of the iowa is just silly by today's standards.

It is true the top speed of the Iowa is 61kph, and the Mark 60 torpedo is 52kph.... that's one torpedo.

Beefbisquit said:

The point is that the Iowa is a legacy ship.

There are better designs than those of antiquated battleships. Faster ships, that are harder to hit, offer radar protection, and can lay down just as much firepower.

Not to mention you can just launch planes from a carrier.... the 20mi range of the iowa is just silly by today's standards.

It is true the top speed of the Iowa is 61kph, and the Mark 60 torpedo is 52kph.... that's one torpedo.

Click to expand...

Have you noticed how he is only willing to compare the Iowa strike ability to that of a carrier, as if that is the only alternative boat at the navy's disposal?

Balzac89 said:

LOL fighting for freedom in Iraq or Afghanistan? What about Panama? More like fighting for corporations. Those government contracts pay big with little oversight.

Click to expand...

what happened to syria?..everyone was soooooooo concerned?

tip top toker said:

It can outrun some. Hell, they made torpedo's in the early 1900s that were faster than Iowa class boats. They now make torpedo's capable of well beyond 100 knots. But sure, let's just make a blanket statement saying it can outrun torpedo's to try and add credibility to your argument. Or are you saying that the Iowa class is capable of nearly 200 knots?

That's like trying to argue a plane is a stealth bomber because it can't be picked up by ww1 radar

Click to expand...

Think Range, then get back to me. 74 mph is the top speed of China`s finest,...but only for 1,000 yards. 40 knots for five miles, the total range of it. it`s 250lb warhead is a joke to a BB.
You think you can get inside those ranges to shoot? Give it your bestest.

OddBall1st said:

Think Range, then get back to me. 74 mph is the top speed of China`s finest,...but only for 1,000 yards. 40 knots for five miles, the total range of it. it`s 250lb warhead is a joke to a BB.
You think you can get inside those ranges to shoot? Give it your bestest.

Click to expand...

[TABLE="class: infobox vcard"]
[TR]
[TH="class: hproduct, bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]VA-111 Shkval[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]
VA-111 Shkval
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Type[/TH]
[TD]Supercavitating Torpedo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Place of origin[/TH]
[TD]Russia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Service history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]In service[/TH]
[TD]1977-present[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Used by[/TH]
[TD]Russian Navy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Production history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Designed[/TH]
[TD]1960s-70s[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Specifications[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Weight[/TH]
[TD]2,700 kg (6,000 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Length[/TH]
[TD]8.2 m (26 ft 11 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Diameter[/TH]
[TD]533 mm (21 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Effective firing range[/TH]
[TD]Shkval: 7 km (4.3 mi)
Shkval 2: From 11–15 km (6.8–9.3 mi)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead[/TH]
[TD]Conventional explosive or nuclear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead weight[/TH]
[TD]210 kg (460 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Engine[/TH]
[TD]Liquid-fuel rocket (HTP and kerosene)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Speed[/TH]
[TD]Launch speed: 50 knots (93 km/h; 58 mph)
Maximum speed: in excess of 200 knots (370 km/h; 230 mph)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


230mph, 460lb explosive... that'll do some damage.

Why did you not originally argue it as range then. Non, you stated it could outrun torpedo's. You were talking shit. And you are basing it on the notion that it is absolutely impossible for a submarine to be within range of an Iowa. You're talking out of your ass. While that might be a fair assessment, anything can happen.

Try arguing with facts please. Not bullshit.

Beefbisquit said:

The point is that the Iowa is a legacy ship.

There are better designs than those of antiquated battleships. Faster ships, that are harder to hit, offer radar protection, and can lay down just as much firepower.

Not to mention you can just launch planes from a carrier.... the 20mi range of the iowa is just silly by today's standards.

It is true the top speed of the Iowa is 61kph, and the Mark 60 torpedo is 52kph.... that's one torpedo.

Click to expand...

You need to name the faster ship. Only the ford Class is faster. Harder to hit.....Really ?

A Modern BB can hit you at 1,700 miles all day long.

What do you do when the plane does not come back ? Or, can`t see through the clouds ? or Can`t find the enemy yet with half hour loiter time ?

Beefbisquit said:

[TABLE="class: infobox vcard"]
[TR]
[TH="class: hproduct, bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]VA-111 Shkval[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]
VA-111 Shkval[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Type[/TH]
[TD]Supercavitating Torpedo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Place of origin[/TH]
[TD]Russia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Service history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]In service[/TH]
[TD]1977-present[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Used by[/TH]
[TD]Russian Navy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Production history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Designed[/TH]
[TD]1960s-70s[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Specifications[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Weight[/TH]
[TD]2,700 kg (6,000 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Length[/TH]
[TD]8.2 m (26 ft 11 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Diameter[/TH]
[TD]533 mm (21 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Effective firing range[/TH]
[TD]Shkval: 7 km (4.3 mi)
Shkval 2: From 11–15 km (6.8–9.3 mi)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead[/TH]
[TD]Conventional explosive or nuclear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead weight[/TH]
[TD]210 kg (460 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Engine[/TH]
[TD]Liquid-fuel rocket (HTP and kerosene)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Speed[/TH]
[TD]Launch speed: 50 knots (93 km/h; 58 mph)
Maximum speed: in excess of 200 knots (370 km/h; 230 mph)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


230mph, 460lb explosive... that'll do some damage.

Click to expand...

And over 16 times the range of the example he chose to try and make his point and he wonders why people question his opinion

Beefbisquit said:

[TABLE="class: infobox vcard"]
[TR]
[TH="class: hproduct, bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]VA-111 Shkval[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]
VA-111 Shkval[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Type[/TH]
[TD]Supercavitating Torpedo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Place of origin[/TH]
[TD]Russia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Service history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]In service[/TH]
[TD]1977-present[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Used by[/TH]
[TD]Russian Navy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Production history[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Designed[/TH]
[TD]1960s-70s[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #B0C4DE, colspan: 2, align: center"]Specifications[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Weight[/TH]
[TD]2,700 kg (6,000 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Length[/TH]
[TD]8.2 m (26 ft 11 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Diameter[/TH]
[TD]533 mm (21 in)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Effective firing range[/TH]
[TD]Shkval: 7 km (4.3 mi)
Shkval 2: From 11–15 km (6.8–9.3 mi)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead[/TH]
[TD]Conventional explosive or nuclear[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Warhead weight[/TH]
[TD]210 kg (460 lb)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Engine[/TH]
[TD]Liquid-fuel rocket (HTP and kerosene)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="align: left"]Speed[/TH]
[TD]Launch speed: 50 knots (93 km/h; 58 mph)
Maximum speed: in excess of 200 knots (370 km/h; 230 mph)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


230mph, 460lb explosive... that'll do some damage.

Click to expand...

Look at it`s range. A 2,700 lb Ap round at supersonic speed can`t do alot by it`self, and you think that thing will ? That is not a BB killer. Bomber are.

OddBall1st said:

You need to name the faster ship. Only the ford Class is faster. Harder to hit.....Really ?

A Modern BB can hit you at 1,700 miles all day long.

What do you do when the plane does not come back ? Or, can`t see through the clouds ? or Can`t find the enemy yet with half hour loiter time ?

Click to expand...

With what? Certainly not guns.

OddBall1st said:

You need to name the faster ship. Only the ford Class is faster. Harder to hit.....Really ?

A Modern BB can hit you at 1,700 miles all day long.

What do you do when the plane does not come back ? Or, can`t see through the clouds ? or Can`t find the enemy yet with half hour loiter time ?

Click to expand...

Planes have radar and computer systems. How do you think planes land on carries when they can't see the meatball?

BB's are giagantic, and have outdated guns. All of the viable equipment that makes a BB effective at 1,700+ miles can be transferred to a smaller, more technologically advanced ship, that's also smaller, more maneuverable, and harder to detect on radar. It doesn't make sense to continue using them, everyone sees this but you.

I'd have to ask myself if Halsey, Nimitz and Spruance were alive today, wouldn't they agree that the era of the battleship is past?

tip top toker said:

Why did you not originally argue it as range then. Non, you stated it could outrun torpedo's. You were talking shit. And you are basing it on the notion that it is absolutely impossible for a submarine to be within range of an Iowa. You're talking out of your ass. While that might be a fair assessment, anything can happen.

Try arguing with facts please. Not bullshit.

Click to expand...

That`s how you out run it,....you alter the range. A circle can be a lot more water to cover than a straight line. Well within fire`n range. Besides, you need many to lift the ship because they wont go through it.

Beefbisquit said:

Planes have radar. How do you think planes land on carries when they can't see the meatball?

BB's are giagantic, and have outdated guns. All of the viable equipment that makes a BB effective at 1,700+ miles can be transferred to a smaller, more technologically advanced ship, that's also smaller, more maneuverable, and harder to detect on radar. It doesn't make sense to continue using them, everyone sees this but you.

Click to expand...

Also hsveing a far smaller crew allowing it to be put into more risky situations without such a massive potential loss should all go wrong. Guy can't argue to save his life.

First Iowa's can outrun torpedo's, then he changes it to being out of range of them, then he changes it to the torpedo's not being powerful enough. Can't stick with s point for shit.

Beefbisquit said:

Planes have radar. How do you think planes land on carries when they can't see the meatball?

BB's are giagantic, and have outdated guns. All of the viable equipment that makes a BB effective at 1,700+ miles can be transferred to a smaller, more technologically advanced ship, that's also smaller, more maneuverable, and harder to detect on radar. It doesn't make sense to continue using them, everyone sees this but you.

Click to expand...

The plane don`t. Not to mention it has to catch the wire too.

You have no idea how tech. advanced the war room (Control Forward) of an Iowa is. It has all the goodies of a Burke.