The quest for density in buds

Orblight

Well-Known Member
with no sugar, just like i make my bread.

jokes aside, no I don't use kettle.
Please tell me there is atleast milk in that coffee without sugar or are you one of them phsycos that drink there coffee black with no sugar.
So I've never been to America my trip got cancelled when covid hit. Is your bread really like cake?
 

ismann

Well-Known Member
You guys dance all around it without actually hitting the mark. Yes, it's the light, but it's not the intensity (although that matters) and it's not CO2 (although that helps, too). It's the spectrum. Sunlight ranges from UV-b all the way to infrared. Most modern LED grow lights go from blue to red, but not into the further ranges of light spectrum. They do that because UV and IR are not photosynthetically active so the common consensus is they aren't important, plus the diodes are more expensive. However, UV and IR help plants to carry out vital processes, synthesize chemicals, hormones, terpenes and trichomes, and do a bunch of other stuff. UV and IR are extremely important! That's part of the reason outdoor weed is so much more satisfying, and grows so much bigger, than indoor weed. Spectrum, and the fact that outdoor light can get twice as bright as LED light, and its more omnidirectional.

I don't think there's anything I haven't tried over the past decade of growing weed in an attempt to get the best bud possible. I've spent a fortune on different brands of nutes and supplements... I upgraded lights completely four times, did soil, coco, hydro and even aquaponics, but the biggest leap in quality and growth rate and just plain ole goodness came from switching to lights that had UV and IR supplementation bars. My plants started growing twice as fast, were healthier, had better side branching, and the bud ended up more potent and finished flowering about a week sooner.

And all I'm talking about is UV-A. I don't really mess with UV-B. Too much hassle and can be dangerous to you and your plants if overdone. UV-A is plenty enough to make a big difference to your grows.

Ya'll chasing products and tricks when you should be chasing light spectrum. It's cool, tho. I had to learn the hard way, and spend a lot of money before I figured it out. Always thinking there had to be some hack to turn out better bud. Maybe this brand will do it. Maybe this supplement. Am I getting enough calcium? What if the secret is silica? Nope. Just UV and IR. Just get your lights as close as you can to mimicking natural sunlight.

Don't believe me? Try it yourself. Get yourself a UV+IR supplementation bar. You can buy a cheap one on amazon for $50. Sayhon lights have very strong UV+IR, too, and they are budget lights. Won't cost you a fortune. Also, old school HPS and CMH bulbs reach those wavelengths. That's why weed was "so much better back in the day".
Actually, a lot of research indicates that UV-A does contribute to photosynthesis but there isn't any definitive evidence that it helps with secondary metabolites. UV-B has a net damaging effect so better off not using it. I've grown with UV-A and did not notice anything different -- but did not do any lab testing.

Personally, I find indoor cannabis better tasting as do many others so that's subjective. You can also increase secondary metabolites in other ways that induce stress on the plant, like wind and temporarily raising PPFD. Wouldn't really waste time with UV and IR until more definitive research is done.
 

Orblight

Well-Known Member
Actually, a lot of research indicates that UV-A does contribute to photosynthesis but there isn't any definitive evidence that it helps with secondary metabolites. UV-B has a net damaging effect so better off not using it. I've grown with UV-A and did not notice anything different -- but did not do any lab testing.

Personally, I find indoor cannabis better tasting as do many others so that's subjective. You can also increase secondary metabolites in other ways that induce stress on the plant, like wind and temporarily raising PPFD. Wouldn't really waste time with UV and IR until more definitive research is done.
That's interesting about finding indoor cannabis better tasting. I had a friend that played around with this with all cuts from the same strain and we came to the conclusion it's the soil. we thourght the outdoor tasted better but then he tried a indoor with soil and got the same taste as the outdoor.
 

Splinter7

Well-Known Member
Please tell me there is atleast milk in that coffee without sugar or are you one of them phsycos that drink there coffee black with no sugar.
So I've never been to America my trip got cancelled when covid hit. Is your bread really like cake?
i like my coffee like i like my women. pure black....at least for now...i used to do brown. i dropped the sugar and cream for the calories and convenience.

a lot of bread here has a bit of sugar in it and sometimes milk or even butter. I have made these at home for say a bbq which often had milk bread served with it (white or wonderbread). however, a lot of those are actually European/Portuguese recipes made famous today in Japan. the point was to keep it soft, fresh and reduce the holes in the bread for sandwiches. You can get good bread at most stores for sandwiches: basic, no sugar, whole grain wheat, etc. there is always artisan bread at store bakeries. none of it is really like cake. i have had sandwich bread in other countries all over the world. it is not different. if anything the variety in the US is so high you can have anything you want and that is not true anywhere else i have been. no one sells Irish soda bread that i know....that is more like cake imo. all the other bread uses yeast.
 

Orblight

Well-Known Member
Hahah fair enough, better for you anyway.

That being said I just checked my multi grain bread and it has a tiny bit of sugar too, I could imagine there would be quite a selection there.

Your not wrong about the Irish soda bread I cant find that anywhere here, im Irish and if I want soda bread or potato bread I have to try remember my grandfathers recipes he tourght and make it myself
 

madvillian420

Well-Known Member
Actually, a lot of research indicates that UV-A does contribute to photosynthesis but there isn't any definitive evidence that it helps with secondary metabolites. UV-B has a net damaging effect so better off not using it. I've grown with UV-A and did not notice anything different -- but did not do any lab testing.

Personally, I find indoor cannabis better tasting as do many others so that's subjective. You can also increase secondary metabolites in other ways that induce stress on the plant, like wind and temporarily raising PPFD. Wouldn't really waste time with UV and IR until more definitive research is done.
A lot of the high end LED companies worth their salt add it these days, i cant imagine theyd be adding unnecessary diodes to lights and quite literally throwing money away. All of the studies ive gazed at show a pretty clear increase of trichome density when UV is added, the added trichomes are a natural response to the light levels and spectrum, a cannabinoid sunscreen of sorts. The spectrums offered by these companies is getting better and better, more dialed in and studied/tested with actual cannabis plants now, the understanding of all this has grown in leaps and bounds from what we had available 10, or even 5 years ago.

Granted these studies were put out by the LED companies most times lol so i take it with a grain of salt. Not saying its going to double yields or frostiness or anything but more trichs is more trichs.
 

Greenman71

Active Member
Actually, a lot of research indicates that UV-A does contribute to photosynthesis but there isn't any definitive evidence that it helps with secondary metabolites. UV-B has a net damaging effect so better off not using it. I've grown with UV-A and did not notice anything different -- but did not do any lab testing.

Personally, I find indoor cannabis better tasting as do many others so that's subjective. You can also increase secondary metabolites in other ways that induce stress on the plant, like wind and temporarily raising PPFD. Wouldn't really waste time with UV and IR until more definitive research is done.
I'd suggest you do a little research, Ismann, because your info is somewhere around 5 years old, at least. And I just cannot bring myself to believe you tried UV-A and didn't notice anything. My own results with UV-A and IR are so profound I just can't comprehend someone else not having similar experiences. We do agree on the UV-B tho. I also have to wonder if you've actually compared indoor and outdoor grown weed. All in all, I just have to disagree with 90% of what you're claiming. Originally, folks believed it didn't do anything, but most of the latest research indicates it is very important. Even Dr. Bugbee says so, although years back he did say otherwise. I've seen it with my own eyes, so you won't be convincing me otherwise.
 

LoveBudz420

Active Member
Denser buds are susceptible to bud rot.. My quest is smaller buds with no rot..
Did you ever try some of these genetics?
He says a lot of them are rot/PM resistant.

 

PopAndSonGrows

Well-Known Member
Isn’t the whole reason weed grown in Maui outdoors of any variety ….comes out insane because of the hole in the ozone layer right above it and the higher elevations in Maui give you legendary dank?
My opinion is the microbiology of the soil is their real secret. Second to that would be a really nice outdoor VPD, given their great sun intensity and high humidity, plants love that shit.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
here are my takeaways in regards to co2, vpd, and light intensity in regards to flower density. yes i do believe increased light will encourage greater flower density from the plant you have chosen to grow you can also increase the amount of light the plant can absorb by running your rooms co2 at 1500ppm. the 700-1000 your seeing may very well be the natural ambient co2 in your house at 1500ppm the plant can absorb alot more light vs 400 ppm outside. however you need your light close enough to the plants for that co2 at that level to be useful. as far as vpd goes in flower im not a fan i look at those charts and always think that ideal humidity level in those charts would encourage mold or bud rot if you have huge colas however i think this machine https://airrosshield.com/ sold here would prevent mold and allow the perfect vpd while in flower. im not convinced vpd would increase overall density of the flowers though.
If CO2 is raised above ambient level (I think it's 417 PPM now) plants can take advantage of other optimized inputs in the grow environment.

In one of his videos, Bugbee talks about running their rooms at 1200 PPM. I think DeBacco, who is not a researcher but more of "preacher of the good word", has a video where he says that PPM and PPFD should rise together but I can't be 100% sure on that one.

There's little value in raising CO2 to 1200 PPM and doing nothing else. By providing cannabis with 1200 PPM of CO2 and increasing light levels to 1200 PPFD, the plant will be able to photosynthesize and grow much faster. However, they'll transpire more so water uptake will increase and that means that nutrient intake will tend to increase.

It goes back to Bugbee's analogy of putting a huge motor in a car but not improving the brakes before running all out on the Bonneville Salt Flats - things won't work out too well.

Re. "close to the plant" - hang height is part and parcel of PPFD and DLI. You can leave your lights at 36" but better be running a Growcraft Ultra to get PPFD up from that distance. ;-)

"as far as vpd goes in flower im not a fan i look at those charts" - no argument there. Hitting VPD marks will tend to optimize growth but it's up to the grower to create and maintain the grow environment.
 

xox

Well-Known Member
If CO2 is raised above ambient level (I think it's 417 PPM now) plants can take advantage of other optimized inputs in the grow environment.

In one of his videos, Bugbee talks about running their rooms at 1200 PPM. I think DeBacco, who is not a researcher but more of "preacher of the good word", has a video where he says that PPM and PPFD should rise together but I can't be 100% sure on that one.

There's little value in raising CO2 to 1200 PPM and doing nothing else. By providing cannabis with 1200 PPM of CO2 and increasing light levels to 1200 PPFD, the plant will be able to photosynthesize and grow much faster. However, they'll transpire more so water uptake will increase and that means that nutrient intake will tend to increase.

It goes back to Bugbee's analogy of putting a huge motor in a car but not improving the brakes before running all out on the Bonneville Salt Flats - things won't work out too well.

Re. "close to the plant" - hang height is part and parcel of PPFD and DLI. You can leave your lights at 36" but better be running a Growcraft Ultra to get PPFD up from that distance. ;-)

"as far as vpd goes in flower im not a fan i look at those charts" - no argument there. Hitting VPD marks will tend to optimize growth but it's up to the grower to create and maintain the grow environment.
cool story post up a link to your co2 enriched room
 

oswizzle

Well-Known Member
Your exposure to UV being on the Equator is next level… on icmag about 15 years ago… I read a study on aquarium coral reefs metal halide lamps … a German bulb called aqua line Bush or something rather gave off higher levels of UV than any other metal halide studied at the time ….I flowered out some Dabney Blueberry with 2 of those bulbs in a growzilla dual bulb hood….Tiny yield of the best blueberry I’ve ever smoked … UVB and trichomes definitely got something going on between the 2
 

oswizzle

Well-Known Member
It’s an old ass study … but just gives you an idea … the concept has been tested and trialed many years back
 
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