There Is No Devil.

bigtomatofarmer

bigtomatofarmer

Well-Known Member
fish601 said:
if i list a prophecy from the old testament and it came true and was proven to happen in a non biblical document wouldnt you just say the christian church changed the old testament to make it look like it was a prophecy?

your gona defend your believe against me but just give it a look if its wrong its wrong
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Well said.
I could give them everything they ask for and they still will not believe anything I say. Or anything anyone says for that matter.

Here are some examples.....

Babylon would be reduced to swampland

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 14:23
Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

In Isaiah 14:23, the prophet said that Babylon, which had been a world power at two different times in history, would be brought to a humble and final end. It would be reduced to swampland. After Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, the kingdom never again rose to power. The buildings of Babylon fell into a gradual state of ruin during the next several centuries. Archaeologists excavated Babylon during the 1800s. Some parts of the city could not be dug up because they were under a water table that had risen over the years.

Nineveh would be destroyed by fire

Bible prophecy: Nahum 3:15
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC

In Nahum 3:15, the prophet said that Nineveh would be damaged by fire. Archaeologists unearthed the site during the 1800s and found a layer of ash covering the ruins. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica: "…Nineveh suffered a defeat from which it never recovered. Extensive traces of ash, representing the sack of the city by Babylonians, Scythians, and Medes in 612 BC, have been found in many parts of the Acropolis. After 612 BC the city ceased to be important…"


100 more prophecies http://www.100prophecies.org/




I think its redundant to try and convert a persons beliefs over the internet, especially on a marijuana growing forum.

As crackerjacks proved, even if a person is faced with proven facts he/she will still deny what is in front their face, or simply avoid the confrontation, as it never happened.

Everybody has different beliefs.
And to insult another person, or another group for their beliefs shows a persons prejudice and ignorance.

I think its funny how atheists criticize christians for pushing christianity, when they do the same thing with atheism

peace :peace:
 
E

EMDrummer

Active Member
bigtomatofarmer said:
Well said.
I could give them everything they ask for and they still will not believe anything I say. Or anything anyone says for that matter.
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Not true. If any ACTUAL evidence comes up to prove the Bible as factual, most atheists will convert immediately.

bigtomatofarmer said:
Here are some examples.....

Babylon would be reduced to swampland

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 14:23
Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

In Isaiah 14:23, the prophet said that Babylon, which had been a world power at two different times in history, would be brought to a humble and final end. It would be reduced to swampland. After Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, the kingdom never again rose to power. The buildings of Babylon fell into a gradual state of ruin during the next several centuries. Archaeologists excavated Babylon during the 1800s. Some parts of the city could not be dug up because they were under a water table that had risen over the years.
Click to expand...
Okay, hold on here. This is what Isaiah 14:20-23 says:


20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.
21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,"
declares the LORD.
23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,"
declares the LORD Almighty.

Okay, first of all, verse 21 up there says that children are gonna be slaughtered for the actions of their fathers, hm... That's not a "God" I'd wanna follow.

Anyway, assuming this prophecy was written in 681 BC, and it was fulfilled in 539 BC, why was there such a long wait? 142 years? I'd think if "God" was gonna do what he was threatening to the town, maybe he would have done it before everyone he was angry at died?

That's leading me to believe that the city was built on land that had large amounts of water underneath it which naturally rose to the surface over hundreds of years.

There's another prophecy in the next four verses of Isaiah 14.

24 The LORD Almighty has sworn,
"Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will stand. 25 I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders."
26 This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back?

Did that ever happen?

bigtomatofarmer said:
Nineveh would be destroyed by fire

Bible prophecy: Nahum 3:15
Prophecy written: About 614 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 612 BC

In Nahum 3:15, the prophet said that Nineveh would be damaged by fire. Archaeologists unearthed the site during the 1800s and found a layer of ash covering the ruins. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica: "…Nineveh suffered a defeat from which it never recovered. Extensive traces of ash, representing the sack of the city by Babylonians, Scythians, and Medes in 612 BC, have been found in many parts of the Acropolis. After 612 BC the city ceased to be important…"
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Oh, this one's easy, that's a self fulfilling prophecy.

This is what Nahum 3:9-15 says:

9 Cush and Egypt were her boundless strength;
Put and Libya were among her allies.
10 Yet she was taken captive
and went into exile.
Her infants were dashed to pieces
at the head of every street.
Lots were cast for her nobles,
and all her great men were put in chains.
11 You too will become drunk;
you will go into hiding
and seek refuge from the enemy.
12 All your fortresses are like fig trees
with their first ripe fruit;
when they are shaken,
the figs fall into the mouth of the eater.
13 Look at your troops—
they are all women!
The gates of your land
are wide open to your enemies;
fire has consumed their bars.
14 Draw water for the siege,
strengthen your defenses!
Work the clay,
tread the mortar,
repair the brickwork!
15 There the fire will devour you;
the sword will cut you down
and, like grasshoppers, consume you.
Multiply like grasshoppers,
multiply like locusts!

Hm... this child murder thing is getting kinda old.

And it's also quite interesting that "God" seems to be insulting them by saying "All your troops are women, you've got no defense!"

Anyway, if they were at war, why wouldn't the enemy burn the city down after they loot everything? Wasn't that common practice back in the bronze age?

bigtomatofarmer said:
100 more prophecies http://www.100prophecies.org/




I think its redundant to try and convert a persons beliefs over the internet, especially on a marijuana growing forum.

As crackerjacks proved, even if a person is faced with proven facts he/she will still deny what is in front their face, or simply avoid the confrontation, as it never happened.

Everybody has different beliefs.
And to insult another person, or another group for their beliefs shows a persons prejudice and ignorance.

I think its funny how atheists criticize christians for pushing christianity, when they do the same thing with atheism

peace :peace:
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Prejudice and ignorance are not part of ridiculing someone for their beliefs, they chose to be that way. I think it's safe to have preconceived notions about someone's intellect if they believe that the Bible is a factual history book.

And I encourage Christians to proselytize because that's what they believe needs to be done. If you believe that everyone who does not believe in the Bible will go to hell to burn in agony for eternity, how much of an asshole would you be for not trying to save people from that?
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
do you believe the old testament is true?

i am gona assume you dont. so if i list a prophecy from the old testament and it came true and was proven to happen in a non biblical document wouldnt you just say the christian church changed the old testament to make it look like it was a prophecy?

your gona defend your believe against me but just give it a look if its wrong its wrong

can you offer a better idea of how we got here and the purpose of life?
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You would think there would be a little more than one single document for proof of somebody telling the future in history, wouldn't you? I mean honestly, think about it. If somebody could accurately predict the future today they would be famous, they'd be respected, they'd be completely slathered in wealth. That's why there are so many David Blaine's and Chris Angel's out there, playing off of peoples ignorance, getting a paycheck off of entertaining the gullible.

You cannot use the bible, the new testament, the old testament, anything in between or after as proof or evidence to support the validity of Christianity. That would be like writing a book about evolution, then claiming that because my book, that I wrote, says it's true, evolution is true... You need outside sources, collaborative data to determine if something is TRUE or REAL in this world. You need to be able to test it the same exact way I tested it and we should both end up with the exact same results, that's science. Just because something says something happened, and then this other document says what that document said is true, does not make the original documents claims to be true, seriously think about how we would gain knowlege if that's the way we did it... All hearsay, no actual proof of anything.

A better idea of how we got here... I'd submit the big bang theory as to how the universe came into existence, then the theory of abiogenesis for how life began, perhaps panspermia, both theories have valid evidence to support them but it's difficult to go that far back and get really accurate conclusions, so that's still in the works, but that doesn't mean we should insert some random, equally (if not MORE) probable theory into the gap and conclude that's it! We've done it! We've figured it ALL out!

The purpose of life? I personally believe we all have a subjective meaning to our own life. What may give you purpose or meaning might not be the same for me, which is perfectly OK and totally natural. Human beings are not clones, we're not all the same in any way other than genetic and anatomic. In our minds, everyone is different. Therefore it would seem logical that we would all have different meanings and purposes, wouldn't it?

Well said.

I could give them everything they ask for and they still will not believe anything I say. Or anything anyone says for that matter.

Here are some examples.....

Babylon would be reduced to swampland

Bible prophecy: Isaiah 14:23
Prophecy written: Between 701-681 BC
Prophecy fulfilled: 539 BC

In Isaiah 14:23, the prophet said that Babylon, which had been a world power at two different times in history, would be brought to a humble and final end. It would be reduced to swampland. After Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, the kingdom never again rose to power. The buildings of Babylon fell into a gradual state of ruin during the next several centuries. Archaeologists excavated Babylon during the 1800s. Some parts of the city could not be dug up because they were under a water table that had risen over the years.
Click to expand...
Say I had a quote from the Soviet Union a few years after WW2 from some disgruntled Soviet worker that said "the USSR will crumble to the ground!"... then half a century later...it happened. If the author of that ''prophecy'' mentioned who was going to conquor Babylon... that would have been incredibly helpful... or exactly what year... or how... or why... I mean, seriously, anything... they keep them so vague litterally anything would seem authentic. Just like horoscopes.


I think its funny how atheists criticize christians for pushing christianity, when they do the same thing with atheism

peace
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The only thing I've ever tried to do as an atheist is fight for freedom. It seems to me that religion restricts personal freedom and individual thought via government laws. You don't have a right to put "god" anywhere on money, or in school, or in public on any soil in this country, nobody has that right, the fact that most of you think you DO have that right is the problem. That's the part I get pissed about, believers think they're entitled to more rights because they're somehow more moral and righteous than everyone else when every single piece of data ever collected says otherwise. They think they know what's best for everyone and must force their opinion on people to have the kind of world they think should exist, a world where women get the death penalty for getting an abortion or homosexuals are treated like mental patients and arent allowed the same personal freedoms and individual rights as the rest of the population, where manditory prayer must be held in schools, where every immoral act inside the bible is justified and mirrored in today's society, and is considered good because the bible says so. I could go on and on, but this is the reality I get from a few years of speaking to believers about this stuff.

This atheist wants happiness and freedom, it's as simple as that. Nobody has the right to tell me what's best for myself. I only have one life and I'll be damned if somebody else is going to tell me how I should live it. Especially, and I say that with the absolute highest emphasis possible, some invisible egotistical motherfucker that's always everywhere at once yet wont show himself and insists on having every single logical conclusion any rational human mind can come up with determine this is all clearly bullshit designed to keep a brain caged and under control while greedy men get wealthy.
 
bigtomatofarmer

bigtomatofarmer

Well-Known Member
PadawanBater said:
Nobody has the right to tell me what's best for myself. .
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But you have the right to tell other people whats best for them?




Not true. If any ACTUAL evidence comes up to prove the Bible as factual, most atheists will convert immediately
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hate to say I told ya so... but its like I predicted the future myslef... maybe Im a prophet :shock:

haha j/k guys
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
bigtomatofarmer said:
But you have the right to tell other people whats best for them?
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Who am I telling what's best for them? What laws am I getting enacted saying my imaginary friend says what's right and whatever he says is right no matter what?
 
shroomer33

shroomer33

Active Member
One of the most amazing biblical prophecies was given by Daniel:
It was written during the days of the Babylonian Empire. Daniel predicted that Babylon would be taken over WITHOUT A FIGHT by Medo-Persia, giving the EXACT name of the king of Medo-Persia (Cyrus) who would take over Babylon. The prophecy also said that Cyrus would allow the Jews to go back to Israel and reestablish Jewish society. Daniel continued to prophecy how Medo-Persia would be taken over by the Greek Empire, explaining in detail the downfall of the Greek Empire, and how it would be taken over by Rome. The implication of what was given to Daniel was that the Roman Empire would not be taken over by anyone, and such was the downfall of Rome: it just dissolved.

NO book or religion or prophecy EVER nailed world history so well BEFORE IT HAPPENED, and as it is happening right now with the beginnings of the revived Roman Empire: the European Union, exactly as written thousands of years ago!!!

I find all of this pretty freaking amazing.

None of this prophecy was really Daniel. An angel gave this prophecy to Daniel.
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Why couldn't the "prophet" simply write something down, claim it was going to be fulfilled at some future date, then through all of the fanatical believers, they bring about the coming of the prophecy? This reminds me of the current situation in Israel with the "prophecy'' about the end of the world. Doesn't it seem likely that those who believe this shit with everything in them would WANT these prophecies to come true, and they would try to accomplish goals that would make it happen? So how does some nutcase claiming to be a prophet thousands of years ago coming up with a random idea, then years later the craziest of the crazy in the cult make the prophecy happen in a way that could be interpreted in a way by the rest of the believers as if the ''prophecy'' actually came true? Then their whole religion is true, even though the other 99% is clearly bullshit... Just because this one random guy seemingly (to the gullible) predicted the future...

Do you see where I am coming from?
 
fish601

fish601

Active Member
PadawanBater said:
Why couldn't the "prophet" simply write something down, claim it was going to be fulfilled at some future date, then through all of the fanatical believers, they bring about the coming of the prophecy? This reminds me of the current situation in Israel with the "prophecy'' about the end of the world. Doesn't it seem likely that those who believe this shit with everything in them would WANT these prophecies to come true, and they would try to accomplish goals that would make it happen? So how does some nutcase claiming to be a prophet thousands of years ago coming up with a random idea, then years later the craziest of the crazy in the cult make the prophecy happen in a way that could be interpreted in a way by the rest of the believers as if the ''prophecy'' actually came true? Then their whole religion is true, even though the other 99% is clearly bullshit... Just because this one random guy seemingly (to the gullible) predicted the future...

Do you see where I am coming from?
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We see where your comming from you know we were all athiest before we started believing in god we were not born christian believers.

sure if pres obama made a prophecy he or his followers could make it come true that does not mean anything.
and maybe you can convince yourself, that something written in the old testament that was fulfilled by people who didnt believe in god, was just coincidence
you know kinda like when they hung jesus on the cross

we can show you alot of proven prophecies but God has done
some amazing things infront of people and they still didnt believe. Jesus healed people everywhere he went and those people who seen those healing killed him

a god who created water should be able to part the red sea even tho that seems nutty to us if a god cant do that is he really even worth knowing?
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
bigtomatofarmer said:
But you have the right to tell other people whats best for them?

Your right....only the church should be able to do that.....








hate to say I told ya so... but its like I predicted the future myslef... maybe Im a prophet :shock:

haha j/k guys
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I agree, if you are using the "proof bar" of religion....you do qualify!! :clap:

It's that easy!!
 
H

HarvestFest2010

Well-Known Member
I think the timeline is Bullshit and the crusaders killed the last of the dinosaurs. And what was left was some inbred bullshit anyways i guess. It will all come out again. I think that some know, but some can;t handle the truth of thier origins.
 
Operation 420

Operation 420

Well-Known Member
Can you people explain the Nephilim and their architecture? Stone slabs that are so big, we can't scientifically guess their weight and have no machinery on earth that can lift them?

Can any of you naysayers explain this?
 
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PadawanBater

Guest
Operation 420 said:
Can you people explain the Nephilim and their architecture? Stone slabs that are so big, we can't scientifically guess their weight and have no machinery on earth that can lift them?

Can any of you naysayers explain this?
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I'd guess this is a false statement. Why wouldn't scientists be able to guess the weight of some stone tablets? We can estimate the weight of entire planets with pretty decent accuracy... that would be the easiest thing in the world. And I'm POSITIVE if these objects your talking about are man made, we have machinery on earth today that can lift them. Give me a source so I know exactly what your talking about.
 
g00sEgg

g00sEgg

Well-Known Member
Operation 420 said:
Can you people explain the Nephilim and their architecture? Stone slabs that are so big, we can't scientifically guess their weight and have no machinery on earth that can lift them?

Can any of you naysayers explain this?
Click to expand...
I'll explain.

Extraterestrial life forms from another planet brought them here for noobs like you to ponder upon.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Here in lies a problem. A percentage of any population, when faced with a scientific conundrum (temporary I assure you), instead of "working the problem" instantly run to a G*D conclusion so as not to have to think the matter through, or encourage others to.

I am not familiar to the architecture you speak of (that is rare for me), but let's say that science cannot explain (today) how the stones were lifted. So what? That does not indicate G*D in any way.

I think modern man underestimates not so modern mans capabilities when it came to work and patience. Slavery was a common and accepted practice globally (it still is today to an extent). Heck the Bible and Jesus were all for slavery!! No problems there! Craftsmen worked on these large structures for decades at a time.

If there is anything history can teach you concerning man.... where there is a will...there is a way.

No G*D needed there. Just ingenuity and hard work over a long period. Satisfactory scientific proof impending....I'm sure, like everything else. The church has repeatedly had to make hasty retreats from "their" worldly conclusions and quickly grasp at any conundrum they can find with a wisp of desperation as the Myth falls away to science.
 
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