This deficiency happens every cycle

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Well sad to say but the problem is striking again on four plants in individual dwc buckets. I've had the ph of two drift backwards slowly. I've flushed for 24hrs like you said for this ebb and flow system. It has to be something with the environment I'm guessing since one tent can show great signs in veg and when I switch over to the other tent for flowering all things go to hell at week 3 which is where I'm about at with these 4 dwc plants. I'm not saying you diagnosis was wrong but I think they're might be some other factors since it's happening again.

I'm gonna start a thread with details in the coming days. Man this is frustrating.
DWC individual buckets?
How hot are the buckets getting?

I'll bet again that it's the buckets getting 70F or more! Roots in liquids don't like that!

I don't run any DWC if i can't control the buckets temps below 68F

Doc

Oh look I just read Dr. P's post (gotta learn to read threads out)...He's right!
 

Mjaylover

Active Member
I'm glad I could help.

water temps! clean them again Wash your roots off with a hose. Are they limey?
Since my temps in the tent are 73 during the day and 60-63 at night the Water temps drop to 17c with lights off and during lights on 20c at most usually 19c. Roots are turning slightly brown though. *sigh. Only thing I'm having issues with controlling is humidity at night. One reader says 59 on one side of the tent and the controller reads 64-69 depending on when the duhuey kicks on
 

Terry385

Well-Known Member
Since my temps in the tent are 73 during the day and 60-63 at night the Water temps drop to 17c with lights off and during lights on 20c at most usually 19c. Roots are turning slightly brown though. *sigh. Only thing I'm having issues with controlling is humidity at night. One reader says 59 on one side of the tent and the controller reads 64-69 depending on when the duhuey kicks on
with tea don't worry about temps it just works
humidity at night... leave the fan and exhausts on 24 x 7
 

Terry385

Well-Known Member
i use the whole line up have not check ppm or ph res change 7 to 10 days just top off when low about 1/2 gal. a day plants are growing fast and stay green one on flush still green 9 weeks
 

Mjaylover

Active Member
Actually he should have an exhaust with Co2......You use an environmental controller that will not run the gas with no lighting (night) and turn on the AC and exhaust when temps/RH get too high.........

Like this one

https://4hydroponics.com/autopilot-digital-environmental-controller

I'm thinking I did not have enough nutes in the res which causes the ph drop. I was following the add back formula you provided me and as we all know it decreases the ppms over the course of a week. Well I noticed at a fresh res change I get great ph drift upwards. Towards the end of the week the ph was drifting backwards and the ppms were significantly low. I'm now wondering if this was also the cause in the ebb and flow system.
 

Mjaylover

Active Member
update: I believe root aphids contributed to my problem. When I tore down the ebb and flow setup i saw tons of gnats looking bugs.
 

Mjaylover

Active Member
@Mjaylover

Ok,,,,,,Here we go.....

Keep the res below 68 at all times. 62 to 68
You say it smells like growth - EARTHY SOIL SMELL? THAT means rot is happening..I see too much brown in the roots pics...This helps lower pH and I'll get into that in detail below.
I don't see what I was asking about in the "black spots" or see the tell table white "slime" around the spots. So good on that...

I suspect you were locking out the Ca with Si at the mix.......Odd though that you get a falling pH as that indicates excess of Ca - Mg - K and NH4........Not the Ca, Mg or K so that brings us back to the Rot as NH4 "Ammonium" (ammonia is the precursor to ammonium and the creation of NH4 from ammonia is increased as the pH drops).....SO, it's a self perpetuating problem as long as the ammonia is supplied.......SO,,,,,,




View attachment 3506227

One problem could be that your roots are "shedding" more cellulose from the root growth and that is "rotting" and providing more ammonia to fuel the conversion to ammonium and dropping the pH as an ongoing and increasing result.

Solution - Use a "ZYME" product from Hesi (POWER ZYME) or Canna (ZYME)......These are specific spectrum Biologics that actually "eat" or consume the cellulose fiber the roots shed and turn it into plant usable nutrition......Oh course, reducing available ammonia....

Another could be that you are getting a rising amount of root rot that we simply can't see (some area's did look worse then others and can help to explain the oversize root growth as in them being long and not "ball" like in shape) and that is increasing the available ammonia. I might suspect a contamination of equipment for this ongoing problem..Below I will show you how to treat this in this grow....When the grow is over.....Sanitize everything inside and out with a Hydrogen Peroxide solution for sanitizing hydro equipment - You SHOULD be doing this after every grow! How to do that follows too.


These 2 things address the lowering pH and your leaf problems as we already know that are locking out the Ca....

So,,lets work on the ongoing grow first.....
Get some 35 or 40% Hydrogen Peroxide (I prefer the 40%).....Cheap place to get it is a beauty supply store.....they have both 35 and 40 % - get a few quarts or a gallon if you can.
Grow/hydro supply shop will have 35% but their mark up is stupid....Still if you have no other choice DO IT!

Lets work here on attempting to get the roots cleaned and healthy, while cleaning the system a bit too.

We need to make a 3% solution for this (don't cheat and get drug store 3% as it's not pure and contains contaminates that can ruin the grow).
USE GLOVES WHEN HANDLING THE PEROXIDE!

Mix the peroxide to RO water at 11 parts water to 1 part peroxide and store this in a BROWN gallon bottle....

Now dump your res and drain (as best you can) any remaining nutrient solution from the pots. THROW AWAY the nutrient solution!

Refill the res with RO water to your normal level and add, say for you here - 5ml of the 3% peroxide you made to every gallon of water in the res. Run for 24 hrs.....you should be running a cycle every 3 hrs and one at lights out.....

Now dump and refill with fresh nutrient solution and run.......Do this at every res refill for this grow run! (USE THE ZYME PRODUCT!) You could add 75ml of the 3% to the fresh res as an O2 booster and it helps keep the rot away too.

You should INCREASE the air your putting in the res too! You do run an aquarium air pump with a stone in the res right? DOUBLE THAT AMOUNT!

Now at the end of the run. You need to REALLY clean the system!
Add 280ml of the peroxide (40%) to every gallon of water it takes to run the system at bare minimum to fill the pots and run that for 6 hrs.....spray this mix at any level not reached by the sanitizing solution on your system inside and out (use gloves again!).
Use bottle brush's to do tubing as best you can and scrub out pots and res too...
Rinse with clean RO and start your next grow.....

I think this will solve your problem.....IF between the the first and second dump and peroxide run the browning does not stop...Increase the amount of 3% in the "wash" to 7 1/2ml per gallon.....

Let us know if this helped out OK?
I think it will!

Doc
I really stayed at home longer then I intended to do this - but I promised a solution and I don't brake my word......I'm off to my harvest work....

GOOD LUCK BRO!
Hey doc, I'm about to run the system for 6 hours (I assume on and off every 15 min so it wil cycle a lot) but I was just wondering if the 280 ml per gallon of 40 % was a typo? I'm hoping you meant 28ml per gallon as I've seen others online success 20ml per gallon. If not, that's a lot of h202 for 35 gallon res.

Thanks.

Even with the brown roots I still pulled a very hefty amount closest to 1g per watt then ever before.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Hey doc, I'm about to run the system for 6 hours (I assume on and off every 15 min so it wil cycle a lot) but I was just wondering if the 280 ml per gallon of 40 % was a typo? I'm hoping you meant 28ml per gallon as I've seen others online success 20ml per gallon. If not, that's a lot of h202 for 35 gallon res.

Thanks.

Even with the brown roots I still pulled a very hefty amount closest to 1g per watt then ever before.
The 280 for cleaning is correct BUT you only have to run enough liquid to fill the pots at a cycle and not fill the res with it.
use gloves and wipe the cleaning solution all over every surface you can reach that the fill and drain does not.

Better now?

Nice job on your run!
Once you clear this problem - you'll hit your goal fairly quick.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
The 280 for cleaning is correct BUT you only have to run enough liquid to fill the pots at a cycle and not fill the res with it.
use gloves and wipe the cleaning solution all over every surface you can reach that the fill and drain does not.

Better now?

Nice job on your run!
Once you clear this problem - you'll hit your goal fairly quick.
Just read up line a bit.

Yeah you can go and up the 33% to 50% and see how that goes......Whats going on in a res is as the plant uses nutes it stll cannraise ppms with things the plant puts back as waste in the res.....Build up of this waste is not good and you can run full strength add back BUT be sure to dump and refill at least every 2 weeks....if you do.
 
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