Thoughts on using unground flower for cannabutter?

TerryTeacosy said:
Wow! You guys are really over-complicating things!

Stop looking-up You-Tube video's & get back to fundamentals (I won't do that for you - do your own extensive research & learn....). Take a step back.

Obviously, there are going to be variables in any process like this, but just stick with ONE thing & adjust your results from there, based on your OWN experiences & available raw material. You can always cut it back if it's too much. The "too much" experience should be yours to explore...& good luck with it ('been there - done that!).

Everyone is going to have different responses to any particular "mix", particularly when it comes to edibles, which can last for a LOOOOOONG time.

What may be "mediocre" for YOU may be "Stop the world, I want to get off!!" for another.

Don't presume for others & have some consideration for them before you offer it.

I'm going to step-down off my soap-box now & drop a cap of CBN-heavy stuff that I deliberately created for sleep.
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No, not terribly complicated. Also, not a whole lot of people using this process or method to do this. I'm overall pleased with the result, given there's a whole lot of belief out there that cannabutter must be green, stinky and foul-tasting. In this case, I was surprised at how NOT those things this was and had an inkling that maybe with the loss of that, was loss of potency. I'm not one to want super strong treats but enough that people don't just shrug and think it did nothing. In this case, a teaspoon isn't a 'serving size' but more like less than half.
 
cindysid said:
I don’t grind my material. I throw it in the oven for an hour @ 240F, put it in melted butter on the stovetop. I add a couple of cups of water ( I’m using an oz of good trim per pound of butter). Simmer for 30 minutes, strain and refrigerate. I can’t stand the taste of brownies without weed. My butter tastes great! All the nasty stuff falls into the water which I wash away after the butter solidifies.
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Yeah, the thing that I find interesting is that it's sort of become boilerplate that you have to grind it up to get the most out of it... but given the THC is on the outside of the plant, didn't make terribly much sense to me and grinding is a great way to get all the green 'available' to your process. But yes, doing it with whole flower seems to be effective across a few fronts.
 
LeastExpectedGrower said:
So, you net great conversion and not over-conversion...and doing it in a sealed bag underwater means no smell at all.
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Going by these numbers means that if the flower is simmering in the butter for 2-3 hours it will be fully decarbed as well. So probably the additional oven step is not even necessary if you have the time.

With the sous-vide machine it's probably smart to sous-vide the flower right in the butter, that will then decarb and extract in one step.

For a quick result it's probably best to do the 250F for 30 minutes in the oven and then just another half hour in the butter to get all the resin out. What @cindysid does.

I have an oven with very precise temperature control, so I left the flower in the jar where I decarbed it @250F and then just put the butter into the same jar, set the oven to around boiling temperature and left it there for a couple of hours. That was the least messy.

The jar was closed to avoid smell. That worked fine.

Next time I'll use a bigger jar and add plenty of water, to get the chlorophyll and solids out.

As far as not grinding goes: even the resin "inside" the buds will all go into the liquid eventually, since the buds are soaked in fat and they're simmering for a good while. I guess it would have to be a huge bud and not enough simmering time to "miss" any of the cannabinoids.

So I don't think you have to grind the flower at all, just break it up a little.
 
Putting it in for 4 hours based off the Sous chart and how quickly it decarbed maybe you made a lot of CBN. I’ve seen this crock pot results floating around and it shows more CBN at 2 hours. Did you start with a strain that was sleepy to begin with?
01D8497D-DFB7-4035-AAE7-A5D1C6801ABC.png.
 
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Hairybuds said:
Putting it in for 4 hours based off the Sous chart and how quickly it decarbed maybe you made a lot of CBN. I’ve seen this crock pot results floating around and it shows more CBN at 2 hours albeit a higher temp. Did you start with a strain that was sleepy to begin with?
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Don't know if you asked me, but in my case I probably over-decarbed. And the butter is very stoney... and it was made from a strain that is already on the stoney side.
So 30min@250F plus another 240min@200F was quite likely overdoing it.
 
ComputerSaysNo said:
Going by these numbers means that if the flower is simmering in the butter for 2-3 hours it will be fully decarbed as well. So probably the additional oven step is not even necessary if you have the time.

With the sous-vide machine it's probably smart to sous-vide the flower right in the butter, that will then decarb and extract in one step.

For a quick result it's probably best to do the 250F for 30 minutes in the oven and then just another half hour in the butter to get all the resin out. What @cindysid does.

I have an oven with very precise temperature control, so I left the flower in the jar where I decarbed it @250F and then just put the butter into the same jar, set the oven to around boiling temperature and left it there for a couple of hours. That was the least messy.

The jar was closed to avoid smell. That worked fine.

Next time I'll use a bigger jar and add plenty of water, to get the chlorophyll and solids out.

As far as not grinding goes: even the resin "inside" the buds will all go into the liquid eventually, since the buds are soaked in fat and they're simmering for a good while. I guess it would have to be a huge bud and not enough simmering time to "miss" any of the cannabinoids.

So I don't think you have to grind the flower at all, just break it up a little.
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I decarb mine wet. When I get through trimming, I put all the good trim and popcorn on cookie sheets ( I have about a dozen) and decarb them. Then I freeze the material until I'm ready to make butter. I usually make it in 4 lb batches, 1/4 lb trim to 4 lbs butter. Usually has a great flavor. I put it in lots of things, but my brownies made with pure cacao, vanilla paste, and coffee, are legendary.
 
Decarbing wet is a good idea, going to give that a try.

I don’t have a Sous vide so I’m going to try the mason jar and pressure cooker to decarb, seems easy. The only thing that gets me on this is decarbing and then infusing, it seems like a lot of cook time. Maybe just Decarb it then put in capsules?
 
Hairybuds said:
Decarbing wet is a good idea, going to give that a try.

I don’t have a Sous vide so I’m going to try the mason jar and pressure cooker to decarb, seems easy. The only thing that gets me on this is decarbing and then infusing, it seems like a lot of cook time. Maybe just Decarb it then put in capsules?
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I think you could certainly do that if you wished. Should work. Don't try decarbing wet in the jars because the moisture has to escape.
 
Next try at this I'll do whole flower and do the decarb & soak with the butter at the same time. I have a box of cocoa crispies & some 'black cocoa' to make things extra dark.

According to the calculators I've run for dosing info, I'm somewhere in the range of 23-28mg per teaspoon. That makes sense, since it hit me hard enough not to trust my balance standing or walking for a bit and I'm a pretty average casual partaker. That range in my treats, when cut into 1.5" tester cubes means 16mg-21mg per. I'd rather have lower and bigger, but whatev.

IMG_2733.jpg

Fruity Pebbles style...since I wasn't sure of the end taste I hedged my bets. Next try will be the 2x cocoa.
 
I've kinda been experimenting with grind vs hands on. I make capsules with coconut oil and just did a batch of ground (food processor) vs finger grind and found the end result quite different. Here's simple finger grindimage.jpg
And the processed
image.jpg
both had same amount of bud&oil added. Darker ones are much stronger, in taste also. Have you tried any flavor additives? Im going to try some next time. Also do you add Lecithin? Helps emulsion & digestion :joint:
 
Hairybuds said:
Good point! Dry it is!

That looks tasty, more cocoa makes me want to do some dark chocolate
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I haven't gotten to the classic 'brownies' side of things, but when I do, it will be with the Ina Garten brownie recipe which is a addictive substance all on its own. They're also rich you can serve small (think 1x1 or 1.5x1.5" squares.

Since this. is a test batch, I'll wait and try a few different amounts and see how it plays then I'll work the chocolate side.

This is the cocoa powder I'll be using.

shop.kingarthurbaking.com

Black Cocoa

America's favorite baking supply company. Top-quality all-purpose and specialty flours, specialty baking ingredients, baking sheets & pans, baking tools & supplies
shop.kingarthurbaking.com shop.kingarthurbaking.com

Luckily I'm a food & baking person as well as gardening and a few other things...
 
SBBCal said:
I've kinda been experimenting with grind vs hands on. I make capsules with coconut oil and just did a batch of ground (food processor) vs finger grind and found the end result quite different. Here's simple finger grindView attachment 5064220
And the processed
View attachment 5064221
both had same amount of bud&oil added. Darker ones are much stronger, in taste also. Have you tried any flavor additives? Im going to try some next time. Also do you add Lecithin? Helps emulsion & digestion :joint:
Click to expand...

I've done coconut w/ sunflower lecithin with honey...and it proved to make a pretty strong concoction. I haven't made my own capsules, but won't have any trouble doing it...

I would guess that the difference in potency comes from the mechanical aspect...being able to pulverize the trichomes really opens up the ability infuse with your alcohol and oil. I think the other option would be to not mechanically shred everything but add more cannabis to offset the lower levels of infusion.
 
SBBCal said:
I've kinda been experimenting with grind vs hands on. I make capsules with coconut oil and just did a batch of ground (food processor) vs finger grind and found the end result quite different. Here's simple finger grindView attachment 5064220
And the processed
View attachment 5064221
both had same amount of bud&oil added. Darker ones are much stronger, in taste also. Have you tried any flavor additives? Im going to try some next time. Also do you add Lecithin? Helps emulsion & digestion :joint:
Click to expand...

I like the processed one, just a decarb, then process and add oil put in capsules. Skips the infusion part, make a lot of sense
 
I'm still not sold on the idea that grinding up the flower increases potency. If the flower soaks for long enough in the fat, eventually all of the resin in and on it will get dissolved.

On the other hand, running the batch through a food processor or blender can't hurt, so why not do it to be safe. It will probably be very messy with wet flower (unless deep frozen).

I think when making something like dry-ice hash grinding up the flower is very important, because the trichomes all have to break off from the surface, so maximizing the surface area is good here.
I just don't see it when making extracts through a liquid, with extended contact time.
 
Hairybuds said:
I like the processed one, just a decarb, then process and add oil put in capsules. Skips the infusion part, make a lot of sense
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Probably a liquid is far easier to fill into capsules, especially if you want the same dosage per capsule. The THC per volume of liquid will be the same, so one could simply take a pipette and measure a precise amount into each capsule.

I would want that, since overdosing is not very pleasant if you then have to wait for 12+ hours with no way to get off the train early...
 
LeastExpectedGrower said:
The teaspoon full was a good experiment. ;) It proved to me that it's strong enough for me to batch out some treats and expect some kind of effect from them. I intentionally went with 4g per half cup so that it wasn't screamin' strong but you also lose some of your volume in the removal of milk solids, etc.

The thing I was surprised at is that without the grinding you have almost no chlorophyll in the end product, no color from it and the flavor is very mild. I was concerned that that also equalled 'no punch.'

I've done decarbing in jars in the oven at 250f as well, but the idea behind moving to sous vide (beyond the fact that I have one and can leverage it for a bunch of uses) is that it's super even and consistent in heating. Which theoretically means a really precise decarb. Cannabis goes into a bag and air removed/sealed sunk into a water-bath that circulates at a precise temperature. The catch is that my unit only goes up to 208f degrees (sous vide isn't boiling)...so I did some searching on best practices for it. And while I see that some in the Sous-Weed world are doing 196-198f, I ended up here:



View attachment 5064022

So, you net great conversion and not over-conversion...and doing it in a sealed bag underwater means no smell at all.
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Try freezing the plant fresh after harvest
Then bubble hash
Then activate bubble hash via decarb
Then add to your recipe, this will be the easiest for dosages and less weed taste. Although you will get more medicine without making bubble hash and just using bud
 
ComputerSaysNo said:
Probably a liquid is far easier to fill into capsules, especially if you want the same dosage per capsule. The THC per volume of liquid will be the same, so one could simply take a pipette and measure a precise amount into each capsule.

I would want that, since overdosing is not very pleasant if you then have to wait for 12+ hours with no way to get off the train early...
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I make a slurry of decarbed buds and grind them into dust in an old coffee grinder.

I mix this with a little liquid lecithin and coconut oil. Sometimes I add terpenes as well.

After warming it up and stirring it gets liquid enough to suck into a plastic pipette. I cut the tip back to open the hole, because depending on dose it can get thick. This is also why you grind decarbed buds into flower. The finer the grind the better the mix.

I use size 00 gel caps. Each one holds .91ml. I use a graduated beaker to measure milliliters. You need a little high school math and if you can estimate the buds in % of cannabinoids you can then get a reasonable estimate of strength per capsule.

I have 12 varieties in my freezer right now, lol. It's the best I've found to replicate smoking/vaping in an edible without any weed taste, well other than the odd burp.

Bad news is coconut oil will become liquid over 76F, so it's its best to store in a cool place.
 
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ComputerSaysNo said:
Probably a liquid is far easier to fill into capsules, especially if you want the same dosage per capsule. The THC per volume of liquid will be the same, so one could simply take a pipette and measure a precise amount into each capsule.

I would want that, since overdosing is not very pleasant if you then have to wait for 12+ hours with no way to get off the train early...
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Yeah that’s my problem too, been caught on that train and it lasts through the night, feels like my heart is going to explode, lol I laugh now but it really sucks.

It also helps to homogenize the buds and the experience. I’ve experienced different highs off different parts of the plant.
 
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