Time to End "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
With all the PC mumbo jumbo it is easy to overlook the fact that we still don't know what causes homosexuality. In absence of any real evidence we still have to consider that childhood trauma is the best guess. And although homosexuality is not considered harmful to the person, and therefore not defined as a disorder, there is still a very real possibility that homosexuals might have psychological issues that could case problems in a setting such as the military.

Granted, there is no proof this IS the case, but absent proof that it IS NOT the case, it is somewhat logical to make this assumption. I know people don't want to hear it but logic is logic. And in my experience, Gays, while good and affable people, often have a disproportionate number of "issues" of one type or another.
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
RickWhite said:
With all the PC mumbo jumbo it is easy to overlook the fact that we still don't know what causes homosexuality. In absence of any real evidence we still have to consider that childhood trauma is the best guess. And although homosexuality is not considered harmful to the person, and therefore not defined as a disorder, there is still a very real possibility that homosexuals might have psychological issues that could case problems in a setting such as the military.

Granted, there is no proof this IS the case, but absent proof that it IS NOT the case, it is somewhat logical to make this assumption. I know people don't want to hear it but logic is logic. And in my experience, Gays, while good and affable people, often have a disproportionate number of "issues" of one type or another.
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Uh huh...and how do we explain ignorance and bigotry? Being dropped on the head as a child?

Just because someone isn't like you doesn't mean they have a disease or a psychological disorder.

In your case, being an asshole might be a pathologic condition.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Rick does raise a valid point however.... the jury is still out on this subject. Science has not grappled with it ... yet.

There is a possibility it will come down to a genetic mutation. I'm not gay...but if I were.... I think I'd like to know the scientific truth of the matter....even if I don't like what I'm hearing....but that's just me. I feel that way about everything.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Rick does raise a valid point however.... the jury is still out on this subject. Science has not grappled with it ... yet.

There is a possibility it will come down to a genetic mutation. I'm not gay...but if I were.... I think I'd like to know the scientific truth of the matter....even if I don't like what I'm hearing....but that's just me. I feel that way about everything.
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Ya, well, why take a good objective look at the issue when you can just call someone names, label them a bigot and avoid addressing perfectly valid points?

Fact is, like it or not, most of the time behavior that deviates from the norm is caused by some sort of difficulty in childhood. For instance women who work in the sex trade nearly always come from abusive homes and are victims of molestation. Heavy drug use goes hand in hand with a history of abuse. Delinquency was once just assumed to be the result of the lack of a strong male roll model. Then in efforts to rationalize the narcissistic ways of the "me generation" this belief was swept under the rug. Now studies have confirmed this - or you can just drive through Detroit.

Actually, it seems like when ever a clear cause effect relationship doesn't fit the dogma of the Left they just have their cronies in all of our social science colleges suppress the offending evidence.

I have always come down on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture argument where complex behavior is in question. And, I just don't see an evolutionary explanation for a man who desires another man's crank. I also believe that we have the technology to answer the question of homosexuality being genetic - it's just that they have not found the answer they want yet.

But never the less, I do remain open to the possibility. But until then, logic dictates to me that I have to assume that the most likely cause is some form of childhood trauma or other developmental issue. And being cognizant of this, I must reason that these problems probably manifest themselves in other ways that might be problematic.
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
RickWhite said:
Ya, well, why take a good objective look at the issue when you can just call someone names, label them a bigot and avoid addressing perfectly valid points?

Fact is, like it or not, most of the time behavior that deviates from the norm is caused by some sort of difficulty in childhood. For instance women who work in the sex trade nearly always come from abusive homes and are victims of molestation. Heavy drug use goes hand in hand with a history of abuse. Delinquency was once just assumed to be the result of the lack of a strong male roll model. Then in efforts to rationalize the narcissistic ways of the "me generation" this belief was swept under the rug. Now studies have confirmed this - or you can just drive through Detroit.

Actually, it seems like when ever a clear cause effect relationship doesn't fit the dogma of the Left they just have their cronies in all of our social science colleges suppress the offending evidence.

I have always come down on the nurture side of the nature vs nurture argument where complex behavior is in question. And, I just don't see an evolutionary explanation for a man who desires another man's crank. I also believe that we have the technology to answer the question of homosexuality being genetic - it's just that they have not found the answer they want yet.

But never the less, I do remain open to the possibility. But until then, logic dictates to me that I have to assume that the most likely cause is some form of childhood trauma or other developmental issue. And being cognizant of this, I must reason that these problems probably manifest themselves in other ways that might be problematic.
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Oh, I'm pretty sure that we will find that there is a genetic explanation for homosexuality. It was the 'developmental trauma' theory of yours that bugged me. It's like the line the 'pray the gay away' religious morons take. Does anyone remember the south park episode where they send butters to gay camp. That shit is hilarious....
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
abe23 said:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that we will find that there is a genetic explanation for homosexuality. It was the 'developmental trauma' theory of yours that bugged me. It's like the line the 'pray the gay away' religious morons take. Does anyone remember the south park episode where they send butters to gay camp. That shit is hilarious....
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Ah, see now you have shut your mind off and are letting Liberal dogma guide your thoughts.

First, why are you sure there is a genetic cause? Do you have a background in genetics or other science? You realize there is no evidence that suggests a genetic link despite a hoax a while back claiming there was.

A better question is why and how do you make a colossal leap from the question of learned behavior to the notion of trying to change a person through prayer? If you were objective, you would see what a colossal leap this really is.

It is however, not surprising that you have leaped from point A to point Z because you are flying on pure dogma.

Getting back to objectivity:

If homosexuality is learned, it does not mean it can be changed. Numerous studies show that actual brain damage often results when children are exposed to high stress levels and many of these are likely permanent physiological changes. In other words, abuse physically re-wires the brain.

http://www.google.com/search?q=child+abuse+brain+damage&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIE_en

Now, if all of these are possible effects of abuse, doesn't it stand to reason that homosexuality may be as well? None of this however, should be seen as a condemnation of Gays. What should be noted if anything is that it is an absolute moral imperative to provide a healthy environment for our children. Since their health determines our future, their right should always be put before those of everyone else.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
With all the PC mumbo jumbo it is easy to overlook the fact that we still don't know what causes homosexuality. In absence of any real evidence we still have to consider that childhood trauma is the best guess. And although homosexuality is not considered harmful to the person, and therefore not defined as a disorder, there is still a very real possibility that homosexuals might have psychological issues that could case problems in a setting such as the military.

Granted, there is no proof this IS the case, but absent proof that it IS NOT the case, it is somewhat logical to make this assumption. I know people don't want to hear it but logic is logic. And in my experience, Gays, while good and affable people, often have a disproportionate number of "issues" of one type or another.
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your being kind....being gay is a mental disorder men are ment to have sex with women anyone who says diffrent is either mentally ill or a lier. if someone is gay i feel it is not my buisness but dont think you can force me to say it is right when it is plainly not
 
Teejay13

Teejay13

Well-Known Member
I was medically retired from the Army in June of 2008 and have served with many semi-openly gay soldiers (let’s just say they did a terrible job of hiding it) albeit 75% of them women and while I do see that there could be many garrison problems (EO complaints) with swinging that closet door open, I saw no real problems as far as combat effectiveness in my 16 months in the Stan’.
Do I really want to have to hit the showers with meat gazers lurking in there? No, but most of the guys that we knew to be a little lavender made every attempt to not try to make everyone around them uncomfortable.
I’m all for getting rid of the DADT policy and letting these people live their lives; I just think that at a time where ending these fucking wars should be a priority this shouldn’t even be a discussion.
This is just my two cents though. Cheers.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
abe23 said:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that we will find that there is a genetic explanation for homosexuality. It was the 'developmental trauma' theory of yours that bugged me. It's like the line the 'pray the gay away' religious morons take. Does anyone remember the south park episode where they send butters to gay camp. That shit is hilarious....
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to big gay al...hi how are you?

(using my lispy gayest voice) super, nice to meet ya

fucking hilarious. for four years i lived about 8 miles from southpark...maybe 30 from fairplay. they take their SP serious there.

remind me to tell ya the story about chef....he is a real person. a phsycologist from town. a woman i used to be friends with collected money from him. insurance. talks just like isaac hayes. nevermind about the story, i just told ya.

one of my top ten favs...the queefing episode. simply brilliant! :lol::lol::lol:
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
Teejay13 said:
I was medically retired from the Army in June of 2008 and have served with many semi-openly gay soldiers (let’s just say they did a terrible job of hiding it) albeit 75% of them women and while I do see that there could be many garrison problems (EO complaints) with swinging that closet door open, I saw no real problems as far as combat effectiveness in my 16 months in the Stan’.
Do I really want to have to hit the showers with meat gazers lurking in there? No, but most of the guys that we knew to be a little lavender made every attempt to not try to make everyone around them uncomfortable.
I’m all for getting rid of the DADT policy and letting these people live their lives; I just think that at a time where ending these fucking wars should be a priority this shouldn’t even be a discussion.
This is just my two cents though. Cheers.
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welcome aboard teejay and thanks for your service.

your post is very similar to what i have found. no big deal.

that equal oppurtunity complaints angle you mention is somehting i never thought of though. never have to deal with a complaint like that now cuz they cant tell. hmmm. i will have to think of this one for a while.

nice post and you will find me old soldiers on here...surprisingly perhaps. :blsmoke:
 
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