True HP Aero For 2011

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dickkhead

Active Member
Mechanibus said:
Cool.



What I would do, is get a 3" hole saw and some 8 oz solo cups- smaller than the regular ones. In any case, you need cups that would sit in whatever diameter hole you are making in the bottom of the bucket.

Carefully tip your bucket on it's side, and then use a 3" hole saw to carefully saw through the bucket, taking care to disturb the roots as little as possible. Now that the hole is there, take your cup, poke just a few small holes in it, only a few around the bottom are needed, don't try to make a netpot.

Now, you need to fill the cup to overflowing with promix or whatever medium. Don't pack it into the cup tight, but do make sure that the medium is completely filling the cup, i.e. no air spaces.

At this point, without spilling out too much of the medium, you need to "buckle" or fold the edge of the cup just enough to fit the rim through the hole, then pop back into shape, thus attaching the cup to the bucket.

With that done, take the time to drill about 40 small holes in the bottom of that same bucket all around the large hole. Once all this is done, pick the whole thing up and put it in the outer bucket. Now you can either put a bulkhead sitting in the outer bucket, just below where the inner bucket sits, or just a hole there. It should look like this, but with the cup sticking out and without the fill tube.
View attachment 2101050

From this you can see how the fill tube was put in, too hard to do it once the medium is added.
View attachment 2101051

This is what they look like put together but empty.
View attachment 2101052

Since A: you didn't install a fill tube when you put the original medium in the upper bucket, thus making it really hard to install now, and B: the whole point of this was to make this stuff automated- I would install a bulkhead fitting so you can tie all your lower buckets together to a common drain, then use a float valve or similar to keep the level of water just below the level of the inner buckets.



Oh man! TB's got the 411 on SIPs as well as aero! J/K wicking properly is a concern. That said, I've done SIPs in Ocean Forest, Fertilome, Vic's Super Soil, Store-Brand potting mix, straight coco, and mixes of old soil of any of the above. They all work fine. Most any pre-packaged soil or "soil-less" mix, is going to have a ton of coco or more usually peat moss added in. Plus perlite and lots of other particulates. They will soak up water to the top of the bucket, no worries. Hard to go wrong here.

And you said you used straight promix, which a soilless mix containing about 99% Peat and perlite- it is an ideal medium for use in SIPs and will wick as well as anything else.

Now, if all this just seems too much work- there is another way to solve the watering issue without doing SIPs. You could drill small holes around the very bottom of each pot or bucket, place said pots/buckets in a tray, and flood the tray periodically, to a level just above those holes.

In fact, I keep my mums in square pots that in turn sit in low sterilite tubs. When I water them, sometimes I just dump about 3/4 inch of water in the tray, and the pots wick it right up! I keep mums in straight Ocean Forest, and it works great because the larger mums that need more wick more, and the smaller ones that are still damp wick less. The one thing I don't do is leave any standing water in the tray after about 30 minutes. If there is any, I put too much water in.

Watering from the bottom up is the way to go, unless you're trying to get nutes into a specific plant, then I top water that one.

If you need more help with converting your SIPs, I might be convinced to make a pictorial while I convert some of mine to be on a common fill/drain- I'm gonna do some tomatoes this year in them, and some squash and cucumbers I think, but I'm not making any more SIPs that aren't all watered from one point.

Crawling through the weed jungle every other day to water my 9 flowering SIPs individually is a sweet, sticky irritation!
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thanks for that im going to try one out. but some of my girls are in air pots so I might the tropf blu mats

Trichy Bastard said:
The biggest issue here is most people don't even do Hp aero correctly, so that it turns into more of an nft experience anyway. It seems even alot of the commercial companies and innovators don't understand some of the most important aspects that actually seperate it from other forms of hydro. Not to worry though- you can make some monster plants with simple methods, though it's my contention that hp aero probably has a competitive edge in the right hands. Like DIYer said, ultrasonic fog just doesn't perform, the mist is actually too small apparently, not to mention heat issues etc... I think it might be ok for cloning at best.

Mech- I don't know much about sips except the global bucket site r0m posted earlier, I remembered them mentioning the wicking of the soil and it made perfect sense. I must've overlooked that DH mentioned his mix already... I just figure anyone in a tent is looking at their plants everyday for fun so how important is it to auto-water besides wanting to be able to leave for extended periods occasionally. I guess I like to actively engage in my hobby, but everyone has their preferences and reasons.
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Im in my garden every day but yea Im planning on going away and would like something that can feed them. and it would be nice to have that anyways it gets annoying watering and mixing every day id like to set it and forget it lol
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
I`d push for a full refund too, but in the meantime you could add the accumulator, pressure switch, relief valve, regulator and solenoid. Use the existing cycle timer, 6800 pump and ideally replace the nozzles with some that have an anti drain feature. Seems a shame to install it in a 7" deep chamber when you`ll only be a tote (or in Mike`s case a couple of spring loaded garden bags) away from a real hp aero setup.
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I will go ahead and take that as "root tested, atomizer approved." I'm hoping to make some improvements here shortly. I kinda feel like putting some pressure on the treefrog dudes. You couldn't grow a tree in that thing no matter how many techniques you employ. Hahaha! Eat my ass treefrog. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8CmRUS9gXo
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
They have an agenda Mike so it`ll fall on deaf ears, the best idea is make people aware of the misleading info (root depth, pressure etc) so they dont get burned like Joker.
Did you clock this one? The mask slips at 2min 20sec, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfO9tdVTAvc
2 nozzles at 50psi seems about right with tubing losses, imagine how bad it is with all 13 on the go :)
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
They have an agenda Mike so it`ll fall on deaf ears, the best idea is make people aware of the misleading info (root depth, pressure etc) so they dont get burned like Joker.
Did you clock this one? The mask slips at 2min 20sec, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfO9tdVTAvc
2 nozzles at 50psi seems about right with tubing losses, imagine how bad it is with all 13 on the go :)
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What a fucking fuck face in that video,..
Anyone still watch south park, and seen the 'Cash for Gold' episode that just aired? I can't help but to think of that part where they keep calling the gem salesman on tv and telling him to kill himself,.. just kill himself for what he's selling and lying to old people. That fucker should kill himself for what he's selling to stoners. "Hey the mist wont even cut yours roots!!" Buy now Buy now!! Fucking toolbag. I could have never grown a fuzzy root in my life and still build a better TRUE hp aero system then those idiots at TF.
 
BflexNJshore

BflexNJshore

Well-Known Member
Haha, I called those guys a few months ago (I have know idea why) and he tried selling me the kit telling me they already put it together.

In similar stupidity, I went to a local hydro shop to get some plant saucers (using them as a catch pan for my drain to waste). Anyways I told the guy what I was using it for and he questioned drain to waste and why I would throw away good nutrients and water. I didnt want to even argue with him and I left.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
BflexNJshore said:
Haha, I called those guys a few months ago (I have know idea why) and he tried selling me the kit telling me they already put it together.

In similar stupidity, I went to a local hydro shop to get some plant saucers (using them as a catch pan for my drain to waste). Anyways I told the guy what I was using it for and he questioned drain to waste and why I would throw away good nutrients and water. I didnt want to even argue with him and I left.
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Haha- and the ignorance doesn't stop there. I bet the tree frog guy honestly thinks his system is good. He probably just doesn't know any better. The funny thing however, is I don't recall ever seeing any plants really flourishing in the system. To me- that is an important thing to showcase. Okay- I think it's time to let the cat out of the bag on some interesting news I have- next post...
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
We gonna see your root zone chiller in action? I know I'm interested in seeing it, and knowing how well it worked.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
BflexNJshore said:
Haha, I called those guys a few months ago (I have know idea why) and he tried selling me the kit telling me they already put it together.

In similar stupidity, I went to a local hydro shop to get some plant saucers (using them as a catch pan for my drain to waste). Anyways I told the guy what I was using it for and he questioned drain to waste and why I would throw away good nutrients and water. I didnt want to even argue with him and I left.
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Ha!..
You say DTW to anyone in a hydro store, and they envision there 55gal drums being poured down the drain. They have no clue they already wasted 55gal putting it back into said drum, after it's touched the plants just once :roll: idiots
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Okay, anyone seen one of these? http://www.aerolife.com/

Anyway, this is a commercial production AA system. It is probably the only promising commercial HPA system out there, and I have been in contact with the owner of the company. He sent me a unit to test out and document- and that is really exciting to me! I will probably start a seperate thread soon and see if this thing is worth it's nute salts ;)... They are currently not for sale at the moment, but if we can learn to get good results with it, I believe he will get back into business with them again. It is somewhat similar to the Atomix, but at a fraction of the price and a few less bells and whistles. The hope is that it can be upgraded and operated properly, and hopefully see some decent results. He lists the nozzles as producing 30 micron mist, which is a tad on the small side, but we can work towards the 50 micron size with a few adjustments. I am quite excited about this, and how an AA system just fell into my lap! :clap:
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Trichy Bastard said:
Okay, anyone seen one of these? http://www.aerolife.com/

Anyway, this is a commercial production AA system. It is probably the only promising commercial HPA system out there, and I have been in contact with the owner of the company. He sent me a unit to test out and document- and that is really exciting to me! I will probably start a seperate thread soon and see if this thing is worth it's nute salts ;)... They are currently not for sale at the moment, but if we can learn to get good results with it, I believe he will get back into business with them again. It is somewhat similar to the Atomix, but at a fraction of the price and a few less bells and whistles. The hope is that it can be upgraded and operated properly, and hopefully see some decent results. He lists the nozzles as producing 30 micron mist, which is a tad on the small side, but we can work towards the 50 micron size with a few adjustments. I am quite excited about this, and how an AA system just fell into my lap! :clap:
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You went from trichy bastard to LUCKY bastard. You gonna run it outdoors, cause I think tests should be conducted indoors as well, lol. That's awesome, man. How was he able to cut the cost?
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
You went from trichy bastard to LUCKY bastard. You gonna run it outdoors, cause I think tests should be conducted indoors as well, lol. That's awesome, man. How was he able to cut the cost?
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Yes, I will likely do both eventually- but it was designed for outdoors on a deck ironically... The costs are cut because it doesnt include the compressor/timer and the owner of the company is actually an AA engineer with his own company mainly for dust control purposes. This was an offshoot of his main company I think and he custom produced the nozzles for this venture. As of now, it's really only an insulated box and a couple siphon fed AA nozzles, but I really believe it has the most promise out there of any other system.. Tree frog can eat my AA fog- LOL
 
BflexNJshore

BflexNJshore

Well-Known Member
Whats with all the tree fogger hate? Bwwwwahhhahahahahaha!

So I got my aquatec on monday and to my disapointment the negative wire was damaged near the motor upon opening the box:cry:. I got it from the rvfilterstore.com and they are sending me a new one AND theres a chance i could keep this one as a back up!
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
"What separates the AeroFog nozzle from its competitors is the fact that it is very affordable: $155 versus $380+ per nozzle" :confused: Da FUCK??...

"The AeroFog Nozzle is simply the best way to produce the right size fog droplets (0-30 microns) " :confused: haven't we realized thats too small?

While saying it can be used for misting foliage they claim: "The fog produced is much more likely to be absorbed by your plants without leaving water spots" :confused: ummm, if you're not misting with 0 water, you're going to get water spots, that's just common sense. 0 water from a big sloppy garden sprinkler leaves 0 water spots, droplet size means nothing in this respect.

"The AeroBox was designed with two nozzle ports opposite and adjacent to one another. They are slightly pitched downward to create vortex of fog that will penetrate a large and dense root mass." :confused: I've said it before, if you can't see though it, mist isn't getting through it. No way that's true in the kind of dense root masses I've seen true HP grow.

I don't like any one of the above statements, they range from stretching it, to flat out false. He's way over priced for what you get IMO. Hope you didn't pay a lot TB. Could be some fun parts to play with though, DIY is the only way to get it right for our purposes, and specific crop, until someone makes a 'Real HP Aero' rig for folks to buy and plug in.
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
"What separates the AeroFog nozzle from its competitors is the fact that it is very affordable: $155 versus $380+ per nozzle" :confused: Da FUCK??...

"The AeroFog Nozzle is simply the best way to produce the right size fog droplets (0-30 microns) " :confused: haven't we realized thats too small?

While saying it can be used for misting foliage they claim: "The fog produced is much more likely to be absorbed by your plants without leaving water spots" :confused: ummm, if you're not misting with 0 water, you're going to get water spots, that's just common sense. 0 water from a big sloppy garden sprinkler leaves 0 water spots, droplet size means nothing in this respect.

"The AeroBox was designed with two nozzle ports opposite and adjacent to one another. They are slightly pitched downward to create vortex of fog that will penetrate a large and dense root mass." :confused: I've said it before, if you can't see though it, mist isn't getting through it. No way that's true in the kind of dense root masses I've seen true HP grow.

I don't like any one of the above statements, they range from stretching it, to flat out false. He's way over priced for what you get IMO. Hope you didn't pay a lot TB. Could be some fun parts to play with though, DIY is the only way to get it right for our purposes, and specific crop, until someone makes a 'Real HP Aero' rig for folks to buy and plug in.
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You can lower the pressure to achieve a larger droplet.

It's pretty cheap compared to the atomix. Both too expensive to survive in the market though. I think we'll see a frog dry up in the hot sun soon enough too. :)

People get too good of results with a 5 gallon bucket & an air stone to be willing to shell out a g or more on a nutrient delivery system. Until we can convince enough people that what we do what we do for a reason, this is how it's gonna be. I don't think people understand how maintenance free these things can be. I use waaay less water/nutes. I don't have to constantly fuck with ph/ec. I can leave it alone for long periods of time, and hopefully one day grow some behemuth monsters that I can post under alias.

I think that system could grow some fine plants, and a cheaper AA nozzle isn't necessarily a bad thing unless it's a total POS. Trichy will be sure to let us know i bet.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
I know i'm looking at this from more of a practical side, maybe even an entirely market sensible stand point, where you try to bring the cost down for the masses, and a lot of us just like to play and experiment, but $155 for just one nozzle is redonkulous. You might as well market trips to Mars to the richest of the rich since that guys obviously floating around in outer space already, saying some of the stuff he's saying. For that price i shouldn't have to turn down the PSI to get proper droplet size. There has to be a cheaper way to get AA. I get the advantages of HP Aero (maintenance free, less water/nutes, never messing with pH, less waste, and so on) it's why I'm here, it's why i went DTW a long time ago. But all that, and 40gal trash can full of root masses can be accomplished with some relatively cheap parts from just one trip to home de pot. Current AA-less methods would fill the root zone he includes, so why bother with whats the equivalent of gold plating your bong? Full is full every time. We'll never 'convince people' of what we do' if it doesn't justify the cost. Play away, but i wouldn't expect to be blown away, and for that price tag you should get 'blown away', and smoked out by miss high times herself, lol

bp1.jpg
Go team!
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
The nozzles are quite cheap compared to the cost of the silent compressor you`ll need to run them :)

For that price i shouldn't have to turn down the PSI to get proper droplet size.
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You pay a premium for AA nozzles because they give you control over the droplet size, flowrate and provide better coverage ;) In the case of syphon fed nozzles you need very little external hardware, (no accumulator, no pump, regulator, pressure switch etc) which makes it easier for less technical minded growers to maintain. If you can get away with running a noisy shop compressor 24/7 (no neighbours to annoy), the initial setup cost of AA wouldnt be a great deal more than HP.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:
"What separates the AeroFog nozzle from its competitors is the fact that it is very affordable: $155 versus $380+ per nozzle" :confused: Da FUCK??...

"The AeroFog Nozzle is simply the best way to produce the right size fog droplets (0-30 microns) " :confused: haven't we realized thats too small?

While saying it can be used for misting foliage they claim: "The fog produced is much more likely to be absorbed by your plants without leaving water spots" :confused: ummm, if you're not misting with 0 water, you're going to get water spots, that's just common sense. 0 water from a big sloppy garden sprinkler leaves 0 water spots, droplet size means nothing in this respect.

"The AeroBox was designed with two nozzle ports opposite and adjacent to one another. They are slightly pitched downward to create vortex of fog that will penetrate a large and dense root mass." :confused: I've said it before, if you can't see though it, mist isn't getting through it. No way that's true in the kind of dense root masses I've seen true HP grow.

I don't like any one of the above statements, they range from stretching it, to flat out false. He's way over priced for what you get IMO. Hope you didn't pay a lot TB. Could be some fun parts to play with though, DIY is the only way to get it right for our purposes, and specific crop, until someone makes a 'Real HP Aero' rig for folks to buy and plug in.
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I believe the point here is he has manufactured a promising unit, the problem is he doesn't understand completely how to run it to get the best results. Yes, the mist size he mentions is on the smallish side, but as Mike said- just a touch of the pressure knob on the compressor or regulator will sort that out. This unit isn't so dissimilar to the Atomix, it seemed to deal fine with the rootmass... I think this is definitely worth checking out and trying to work with...
 
D

dickkhead

Active Member
Nice tb that thing looks awesome! Keep us posted
mike your right that people are able to get good results with the 5 gal buckets but I think you have the right idea with those lawn bags that's the most convenient set up I've seen! And yea I do like how lo maintenance they are once you have them dialed in!! Getting there i was pulling my hair out at times lol. But my girls are 6 weeks into flower and it's been smooth sailing!! I can't wait to try the dyna gro nutes with it with bigger chambers
 
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