War

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
dude, you've been completely triggered over the goings on in Ukraine. I'm not criticizing, just saying. I mostly skip over your posts. Posting here is a way to deal with the stress, so have at it.

"Don't provoke him" ? We decide what we will do, not him. We have to be consistent in our words and actions. We must say what we will do and then do what we said. One of the worst mistakes this country made recently is when Obama drew a red line regarding use of chemical weapons in Syria and we didn't follow up when Assad used it. It appears that Vlad didn't think we'd follow up this time either. As I said earlier, the age of appeasement is over. China take note.

Sanctions will gradually accumulate in their effect. They aren't going to stop his actions in Ukraine, which get worse every day. I have no idea how that will turn out. 80 million dollars a day is what it costs him to prosecute his war. Sanctions are going to bite harder and harder and he's bleeding out his treasury. After whatever happens in Ukraine happens, give it another two years. Sanctions will stay in place. The world will adjust and wean itself off Russian energy. That revenue will dry up. Eventually, Russia will reach a tipping point. The blow we deliver must be hard enough so that Putin will not be able to fight a war again.
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I notice we are taking care with those fighter planes not to trigger Vlad, Biden is paid to defend the American people, not get them vaporized. Skillful means are required here.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
Wrong America is the police state! I understand Putin’s frustration with us, and I’ll present facts! Fact number 1 America has encircled not only Russia but also China for over 20 yrs, and inching closer & closer. How would you feel if your enemy moves to your borders? It’s not like NATO has Russians best interest at heart! That’s like Russia stationing and setting up military bases in Mexico, Canada and the Caribbeans! Bottom line I understand exactly, and I’m not a zombie living oblivious to the world I live in, and America has the Ukraine president in his back pocket! World War 3 has been started & lastly we have a war based economy! When funds are low we go to war!
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You are kidding, right?
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
injinji said:
Yes. Russia and Belarus are at war with Ukraine. They are not at war with NATO. We are trying really hard not to keep it that way. The main danger is due to Russia's weakness. They are going to have a hell of a time taking Ukraine. NATO would clean up his army so fast he would be more likely to use nukes.

This is a very dangerous time. Poot-poot might not take it, but we must leave him an out if we want to get out of this with the least amount of damage possible.
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We are going to do Vlad slowly, but first we have to be careful in Ukraine, everyday the military experts grow more confident that the Ukrainians can do the job, I've stated the case and their advantages over the Russians. The harder Vlad fights in Ukraine in a conventional war, the faster he will go down in Russia. The Ukrainians with NATO supplies will bleed him white, mostly using old soviet weapons in his rear and destroying much equipment that will be difficult to replace in a capitalist economy in freefall. The Russians have a chronic shortage of supply trucks too and many will be lost in Ukraine to partisans.

This is horrible, but fascinating too, wars compress history and change things in profound ways, let's hope it's not so profound that we glow in the fucking dark!
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
So what is the problem with Ukrainian pilots flying them from Germany? Will Vlad cut off the gas? He is operating out of Belarus and has no declaration of war or UN approval in invading a UN member and they are quibbling about legal technicalities?
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the problem is russia has radar, they will know where they are taking off from and landing, and that will involve the host nation in the war, because putin will -rightly- claim that hostile planes are attacking him from there, giving him grounds to retaliate, probably involving NATO, which has a huge likelihood of escalating quickly to launch codes...
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
the problem is russia has radar, they will know where they are taking off from and landing, and that will involve the host nation in the war, because putin will -rightly- claim that hostile planes are attacking him from there, giving him grounds to retaliate, probably involving NATO, which has a huge likelihood of escalating quickly to launch codes...
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I know, they will just get creative, that's what they are paid for.
 
5

56nitty

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Putin keeps attacking neighboring countries and it is our fault that the remaining ones want to ally with the EU/NATO nations?

You should lay off the propaganda man, it is messing with your mind.
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Only country he has attacked was Ukraine because he refuses to let NATO reside in his back yard! Everyone shitted bricks when they were in Cuba with nukes. Come on at least speak facts. If you followed NATO you would see that since the end of ww2 we have moved closer, and closer to China & Russia! That is fact! Anyway all it really is Corporations within Corporations controlling the World. They really want to kill off all of common people like me, you, etc… They will let enough of live that can be managed as slaves. Most of our deficit is owed to Social Security and what happens if you kill off a population especially an aged population? Nobody gets to claim their social security benefits because they are dead. There goes all additional money spent on free health care, there goes money that was used for food stamps, the spending budget will go down tremendously! Not to mention free housing, drug programs, incarceration and what’s left intact or better off is the super rich waiting to cease control of the entire world!
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
the problem is russia has radar, they will know where they are taking off from and landing, and that will involve the host nation in the war, because putin will -rightly- claim that hostile planes are attacking him from there, giving him grounds to retaliate, probably involving NATO, which has a huge likelihood of escalating quickly to launch codes...
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They also have eyeballs on the ground everywhere.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
Only country he has attacked was Ukraine because he refuses to let NATO reside in his back yard! Everyone shitted bricks when they were in Cuba with nukes. Come on at least speak facts. If you followed NATO you would see that since the end of ww2 we have moved closer, and closer to China & Russia! That is fact! Anyway all it really is Corporations within Corporations controlling the World. They really want to kill off all of common people like me, you, etc… They will let enough of live that can be managed as slaves. Most of our deficit is owed to Social Security and what happens if you kill off a population especially an aged population? Nobody gets to claim their social security benefits because they are dead. There goes all additional money spent on free health care, there goes money that was used for food stamps, the spending budget will go down tremendously! Not to mention free housing, drug programs, incarceration and what’s left intact or better off is the super rich waiting to cease control of the entire world!
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So you would rather live in Russia with justice and peace? I hear gas is real cheap there now too!
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
Only country he has attacked was Ukraine because he refuses to let NATO reside in his back yard! Everyone shitted bricks when they were in Cuba with nukes. Come on at least speak facts. If you followed NATO you would see that since the end of ww2 we have moved closer, and closer to China & Russia! That is fact! Anyway all it really is Corporations within Corporations controlling the World. They really want to kill off all of common people like me, you, etc… They will let enough of live that can be managed as slaves. Most of our deficit is owed to Social Security and what happens if you kill off a population especially an aged population? Nobody gets to claim their social security benefits because they are dead. There goes all additional money spent on free health care, there goes money that was used for food stamps, the spending budget will go down tremendously! Not to mention free housing, drug programs, incarceration and what’s left intact or better off is the super rich waiting to cease control of the entire world!
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You do know that a lot of the republican base has been seduced by this war? The images of white Christians with guns and guts fighting for freedom resonates deeply with them. Why I'd bet the majority of those volunteering to go to Ukraine voted for Trump, how ironic. Vote for a dictator at home and fight against one abroad.
 
Kerowacked

Kerowacked

Well-Known Member
The migs are useless, wouldn’t last a week on the ground and they need a half-mile runway. Jumpjets like the harrier or F35 maybe, but not conventional fighters. Drones, javelins and stingers are the prudent defense.
 
injinji

injinji

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
. . . . . . Come on at least speak facts. If you followed NATO you would see that since the end of ww2 we have moved closer, and closer to China & Russia! . . . . . . .
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It's true that NATO has moved east since the USSR crumbled 30 odd years ago. (I'm not sure what you mean about China) But Russia lost control of all the Eastern European counties it gained in the second world war not due to anything we did. But more their own terrible living conditions. And those countries were scared of Russia and ask to join NATO. In hindsight, that looks pretty smart right now.
 
injinji

injinji

Well-Known Member
Kerowacked said:
The migs are useless, wouldn’t last a week on the ground and they need a half-mile runway. Jumpjets like the harrier or F35 maybe, but not conventional fighters. Drones, javelins and stingers are the prudent defense.
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Almost no one is flying right now on either side due to ground to air defenses. But most of Ukraine's air bases are still usable. And Migs is what they are used to flying.
 
5

56nitty

Well-Known Member
Trump a Dictator? What do you call Biden? There is no difference my friend! It’s the Corporation the entity with the most money. You think laws are created in the Politicans you vote for? Lmao… No your laws are thought by the rich, presented to your elected officials whom then drafts it into law to be carried out by law enforcement!
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Kerowacked said:
The migs are useless, wouldn’t last a week on the ground and they need a half-mile runway. Jumpjets like the harrier or F35 maybe, but not conventional fighters. Drones, javelins and stingers are the prudent defense.
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Dunno a much about the planes, but I imagine NATO will do what's required to make them useful, runways are their weakness, but they can use wide highways with straight stretches too. I'd go for some A10 warthogs and use the fighters to defend them while they created a nightmare on the ground, but that might be too much for Vlad. Russian planes are only operating over turf they control, they are afraid of AA missiles and stingers take tactical close air support off the table. They have thousands of modern anti tank weapons plus tens of thousands of RPGs now with more coming.

Vlad's army is going to have a fucking fight on it's hands to take Kyiv, much less the west of the country. They had millions of soviet arms sitting in NATO warehouses FFS, where do you think they are now or soon will be? They have over 5 million fit men of military age and millions more older partisans. Most older men have had military experience and know these weapons, they can use captured Russian ammo and the Russians even paid for the guns that will kill them, the stars are aligning.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
Only country he has attacked was Ukraine because he refuses to let NATO reside in his back yard! Everyone shitted bricks when they were in Cuba with nukes. Come on at least speak facts. If you followed NATO you would see that since the end of ww2 we have moved closer, and closer to China & Russia! That is fact! Anyway all it really is Corporations within Corporations controlling the World. They really want to kill off all of common people like me, you, etc… They will let enough of live that can be managed as slaves. Most of our deficit is owed to Social Security and what happens if you kill off a population especially an aged population? Nobody gets to claim their social security benefits because they are dead. There goes all additional money spent on free health care, there goes money that was used for food stamps, the spending budget will go down tremendously! Not to mention free housing, drug programs, incarceration and what’s left intact or better off is the super rich waiting to cease control of the entire world!
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When do we get to the apes? isn't this the script of planet of the apes at some point? or maybe i'm confused, am i thinking of soylent green?
when does Charlton Heston get to shout "You finally really did it. You maniacs! You blew it up! " ?
 
Offmymeds

Offmymeds

Well-Known Member
NATO has never started a war. NATO is a shield, not a weapon. Being triggered by nations joining NATO clearly means the one triggered has bad intent. Forming a shield isn't an attack on Russia or surrounding Russia; it's a response to Russian aggression.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
56nitty said:
your laws are thought by the rich, presented to your elected officials whom then drafts it into law to be carried out by law enforcement!
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we do have problems, you hit on one right there...there needs to be a lot of reform and it needs to happen quickly...we're working on it, Rome wasn't built in a day, but they were laying bricks every hour. you don't have to build everything you want today, but you do have to find a way to lay another brick. (John Heywood)
 
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