War

DIY-HP-LED said:

North and central Asia are the logical places for them to go, it is their hinterland or will be. Internal lines of communications and material in central Asia are less vulnerable to US naval pressure. If they eventually want Taiwan, this internal rail network through out Asia would insure their basic supplies of oil and grain continue along to access to many of their markets. Power abhors a vacuum and there is one opening up in central Asia and perhaps in north Asia too as Russia is weakened by sanctions over the next couple of years. Their conventional army is being stripped of it's legend and destroyed at the same time in Ukraine and perhaps other future places.

Attacking Taiwan would end the beautiful dream for them and turn it into a nightmare pretty fast as their markets and resources are cut off. Taiwan is only a threat, in that it represents Chinese people living under liberal democracy and shows it works for them too. It's like Russia with Ukraine or Belarus going liberal democratic, it is a threat to the regime and their world view, not to the nation itself, for the nation it represents an example and a contrast of conditions. Liberal democracy would be hard for both China and Russia, they are still empires with a lot of bad history and blood. They would would dissolve, China around the edges and Russia in a serious way, native peoples have been rediscovering their roots and asserting themselves when they have a liberal democracy that gives them the freedom to do so. Look at Scotland and recent independence movements, or the political activism of Native Americas in Canada and south and central America.

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i don't know if the "dream" is as important to Xi as regaining Taiwan is...dictators never seems to like it when territory they consider their own secedes from them. i also am not so sure they care about the threat so much, they have been developing their own network of vassal states, buying them off with rail lines and freight depots, while also building military bases every chance they get...they're in a pretty good position to not give a fuck what America or the rest of the world thinks about them.

Russia claims its troops have taken control of Dunbas settlement
Russian forces have purportedly taken control of the settlement of Metyolkino in the Donbas region of Eastern Ukraine, according to Russian military officials.
The Russian Federation Armed Forces said Metyolkino was "liberated" by units from the People's Militia of the Lugansk People's Republic with the help of the Russian army.

Russian officials claimed several units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine fighting near Lisichansky in the Donbas region "are abandoning the operation area due to low moral and psychological condition, as well as lack of munitions and logistics supply."
There was no immediate comment from Ukrainian officials.

Meanwhile, Russian troops continued to launch attacks on military targets across Ukraine, according to Russian officials.
The attacks included long-distance sea-based missile attacks on Ukrainian troops in the village of Shirokaya Dacha in the Central Ukraine, according to Russian officials. The attack was launched while Ukrainian military commanders were meeting in the village and "resulted in eliminating more than 50 generals and officers of the AFU (Armed Forces of Ukraine)," Russian officials said in a statement.

Long-range missile attacks over the past 10 days have destroyed 10 155-mm howitzer cannons and 20 armored combat vehicles Russian military officials said were sent to Ukrainian forces by Western countries. One Russian missile strike destroyed a transformer plant in Nikolayev in Southern Ukraine, according to Russian officials,

printer said:

Panic Buying in Kaliningrad as Lithuania Bans Rail Cargo From Russia
A wave of panic buying spread across the Kaliningrad region after a rail blockade imposed by neighboring Lithuania on Saturday threatened to isolate Russia’s strategic Baltic exclave.

One unverified video shared Sunday showed anxious shoppers loading up on cement at a hardware store in the outskirts of the regional capital.

“On the first day [of the ban], everyone ran to buy everything en masse,” Pavel Tatarintsev, a Kaliningrad resident, told The Moscow Times.

“But now everyone has calmed down and are waiting to see how the situation will end.”

Sandwiched between NATO members Poland and Lithuania, Kaliningrad is home to Russia’s Baltic Sea Fleet, as well as an arsenal of nuclear-ready Iskander missiles.

But with no ground connection to the mainland, the region relies on rail links through the Baltic states for the transportation of goods and services.

"We consider this to be a most serious violation ... of the right to free transit into and out of the Kaliningrad region," said Kaliningrad Governor Anton Alikhanov in a video posted to messaging app Telegram on Saturday.

According to Alikhanov, the ban will affect up to 50% of the products that are imported and exported from Russia through Lithuania.

Vilnius’ decision was a delayed implementation of a ban on the import of goods to Russia that was imposed by Western countries in response to the invasion of Ukraine in late February.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters Monday that Lithuania’s decision was “illegal.” Senator Andrei Klimov threatened that Russia would look to resolve the issue “by any means,” according to business daily Kommersant.

As well as building materials, consumers also rushed to buy gas, fearing that pipelines that run from Russia to the exclave would be cut off.

Addressing Kaliningrad residents Saturday, Alikhanov said energy supplies would last until at least Aug. 10, and urged people not to panic buy.

Panic Buying in Kaliningrad as Lithuania Bans Rail Cargo From Russia - The Moscow Times

A wave of panic buying spread across the Kaliningrad region after a rail blockade imposed by neighboring Lithuania on Saturday threatened to isolate Russia’s strategic Baltic exclave.

www.themoscowtimes.com

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Hardball, Lithuania is a NATO member and so is Poland, Russia cut gas supplies to Europe. If it keeps up they won't let the Russians out of the Baltic.

Russia's biggest enemies are those who lived under it's rule, they want them gone as a threat and see the chance. They will oppose any compromise with Russia over Ukrainian territory, as will the Ukrainians.

printer said:

Which part? Other than the 50 killed I can find conformation on the rest. I did not look to find the info on the attack on the command post in the Dnepropetrovsk.

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really it's the 50 killed....that gives me the giggles.....sounds like they wanna prop themselves up like they did something good......

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i don't know if the "dream" is as important to Xi as regaining Taiwan is...dictators never seems to like it when territory they consider their own secedes from them. i also am not so sure they care about the threat so much, they have been developing their own network of vassal states, buying them off with rail lines and freight depots, while also building military bases every chance they get...they're in a pretty good position to not give a fuck what America or the rest of the world thinks about them.

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they're like that now....look at the new island they made illegally....

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i don't know if the "dream" is as important to Xi as regaining Taiwan is...dictators never seems to like it when territory they consider their own secedes from them. i also am not so sure they care about the threat so much, they have been developing their own network of vassal states, buying them off with rail lines and freight depots, while also building military bases every chance they get...they're in a pretty good position to not give a fuck what America or the rest of the world thinks about them.

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That is the idea of central Asian expansion, Taiwan is a problem because it is a liberal democracy that is every bit as successful as China in economic terms and an example of a rival political system. They are an empire and think like one, if Scotland pulled the pin on the UK would England invade?

The Chinese economy needs international markets and is integrated into the global economic system, that is the playing field they are competing on. To cut themselves off from liberal democracies and their allies would be like cutting their own cocks off and they fear isolation, isolation and turning their backs on the world lead to their conquest. You can't shut the world out, because sooner or later the world will come calling, while you hold a spear and they hold guns.

A better plan would be to use hard and soft power to own central Asia and it's resources, including much of what is now Siberian Russia. Vlad showed how to break up and carve off pieces of countries using clandestine means and nobody in the west gives a fuck about central and northern Asia. However our most advanced microprocessors and chips come from Taiwan, China's too. Taiwan is an industrial powerhouse that can produce the most advanced weapons like missiles and drones by the millions. The Chinese would face a rain of precision weapons as they tried to cross the straights of Taiwan, a layered defense that would go from the Chinese ports of embarkation right to the beaches of Taiwan and into the cities. The Chinese would feed a lot of fishes trying to get there. Then there are the US and allied naval and air forces along with Taiwan, Japan and South Korea would come on board and the South might attack North Korea with a preemptive strike with precision weapons, they already said they can do it if they wished. China would have a two front war, more if Vietnam and others joined in and we and China know that Vietnam can fight like Hell!

4.5Billion....now that would help with reparations for UA......

If the Ukrainians can do it for treason and terrorism, so can the Americans, ban the republicans and confiscate their property! They are a terrorist organization at civil war with America, the constitution and the minorities it protects through the rule of law, unless they can fuck the law up too and they do regularly. The law is suppose to serve and protect people and communities, it is not as an instrument of civil war against people you don't like, however this was and is the case in America. Republicans are waging war on American citizens and went to bed with Trump and the Russians, so did Foxnews, their media wing, their terrorist wing attacked the capitol and almost destroyed American democracy.

How are the republicans any different than this bunch of Ukrainian traitors? When ya go tribal, group discipline is enforced as circumstances dictate, even in a liberal democracy. Constitutions are not suicide pacts or dead documents either, the SCOTUS does not just intrepid the constitution they are suppose to give it life by reading it in such a way that promotes peace, prosperity, good government and allows it to adapt to social and political changes. Social justice makes it a living document and keeps it constantly relevant. The federalist society is basically a game of legal twister with ideologically driven justices tying themselves in knots of rationalizations on the floor. The result of this judicial philosophy is a dead document and a complete lack of social justice that stymies social progress while enabling minority rule. They take the judgement out of justice and reduce it to a set of rules, an algorithm that most wealthy psychopaths can game.

BudmanTX said:

really it's the 50 killed....that gives me the giggles.....sounds like they wanna prop themselves up like they did something good......

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the story was picked up by two news networks in the entire world, republicworld, a right wing paper out of India, and DW out of Germany, who treated it skeptically. i understand that you don't give out such information for tactical reasons, but surely more than those two disparate outlets would have carried the story if there was any evidence of it.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

the story was picked up by two news networks in the entire world, republicworld, a right wing paper out of India, and DW out of Germany, who treated it skeptically. i understand that you don't give out such information for tactical reasons, but surely more than those two disparate outlets would have carried the story if there was any evidence of it.

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kinda figured it was a puff news.......RA will say anything to make them look better, even though they're assholes

BudmanTX said:

kinda figured it was a puff news.......RA will say anything to make them look better, even though they're assholes

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The Ukrainians can have secure zoom meetings and would not have that many high level officers in one place or travelling on one plane for that matter. If they did have a meeting they would not do it under Russian drone or satellite surveillance and they use strict communications discipline that include starlink terminals. Even the Russia precision munitions have an error circle of hundreds of meters and any such meeting would held in a shelter anyway. Not to mention the Ukrainians have a lot of foreign press around and it would have sent shock waves through Ukraine.

DIY-HP-LED said:

The Ukrainians can have secure zoom meetings and would not have that many high level officers in one place or travelling on one plane for that matter. If they did have a meeting they would not do it under Russian drone or satellite surveillance and they use strict communications discipline that include starlink terminals. Even the Russia precision munitions have an error circle of hundreds of meters and any such meeting would held in a shelter anyway. Not to mention the Ukrainians have a lot of foreign press around and it would have sent shock waves through Ukraine.

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Depends if they were there to learn how to operate Nato equipment. And 50 could very well be some commanders and their aids as well as people serving coffee. Now there is nothing to say there are not Russian sympathizers in the country giving them information of a meeting taking place. If the Ukrainians can target the Russian brass then there is no reason the Russians could not do the same. This is war after all, where was that page that monitored social media posts people used to report action? I will have to see if I can find it again.

It was on the 18th, can not seem to find anything about it but it was the same day Zelenskyy was touring the area.

hey Medvedev, this little girl has something for you and the answer pay attention


and that goes for the rest of us....Beg my ass

printer said:

Depends if they were there to learn how to operate Nato equipment. And 50 could very well be some commanders and their aids as well as people serving coffee. Now there is nothing to say there are not Russian sympathizers in the country giving them information of a meeting taking place. If the Ukrainians can target the Russian brass then there is no reason the Russians could not do the same. This is war after all, where was that page that monitored social media posts people used to report action? I will have to see if I can find it again.

It was on the 18th, can not seem to find anything about it but it was the same day Zelenskyy was touring the area.

War in Ukraine - govtrackr.org

Follow what's happening in Ukraine

govtrackr.org

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That happened to the Ukrainians in 2014 when the Russians disrupted their communications, they learned a hard lesson then and are not likely to repeat the mistake. On the other hand they have been repeatedly interfering with Russian communications and doing the same thing to Russian generals, when they are forced to meet, only with greater precision. Also they tend to be further back from the front with a robust command and control system down to the sergeants in front of them.

printer said:

Depends if they were there to learn how to operate Nato equipment. And 50 could very well be some commanders and their aids as well as people serving coffee. Now there is nothing to say there are not Russian sympathizers in the country giving them information of a meeting taking place. If the Ukrainians can target the Russian brass then there is no reason the Russians could not do the same. This is war after all, where was that page that monitored social media posts people used to report action? I will have to see if I can find it again.

It was on the 18th, can not seem to find anything about it but it was the same day Zelenskyy was touring the area.

War in Ukraine - govtrackr.org

Follow what's happening in Ukraine

govtrackr.org

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they might have hit a meeting, and maybe even taken out a few ranking officers...but 50 high lvl officers at one shot? no one but the russians are stupid enough to put that much brass together at one time, in one place, it would be the height of idiocy...

2 hr 45 min agoLuhansk military head: Russian army has enough firepower to launch a "large scale offensive" on Severodonetsk
From CNN's Sebastian Shukla

Russian forces attacking the key city of Severodonetsk, in the Luhansk region of Eastern Ukraine, have enough reserved to launch a large-scale offensive, the head of the region's Military, Serhiy Hayday, said.
Speaking on Monday evening, Hayday said that dozens of pieces of Russian heavy military equipment had been brought into the region and were already deployed on the battlefield.
In the city itself, Hayday said that fighting is underway in the industrial area, but that “most of the city is under control [of Russian army]. Now the Ukrainian military controls only the industrial zone and the territory of the Azot plant.”
Hayday also provided an update on the fighting in the neighboring town of Lysychansk. He said that there was fighting along the highway between Lysychansk and Bakhmut and that all the towns in that area are being shelled and that Lysychansk “had been shelled almost all day” on Monday.




3 hr 25 min agoUkraine's deputy defense minister calls fight for Luhansk region "very difficult" and "dynamic"
From CNN's Sebastian Shukla


Debris and destroyed cars are seen along a road in Lysychansk on June 19. (Madeleine Kelly/SOPA Images/LightRocket/Getty Images)

Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar said on Monday that “the struggle is very difficult” in the eastern Luhansk region, and that making any predictions are “extremely difficult” given the “dynamic” nature of the fighting.
She added that information is changing rapidly “every half an hour the situation changes.” She said that unless either Ukrainian or Russian forces are in total control of a town or village border, “it is impossible to say what the situation is.”
On the battle for Severodonetsk, Mailar said that she was not going to make any predictions as to the outcome of the battle for the key strategic city in Luhansk region.
Maliar also went on to say that Russian forces in the region have an advantage in number of personnel and weapons.

DIY-HP-LED said:

2 hr 45 min agoLuhansk military head: Russian army has enough firepower to launch a "large scale offensive" on Severodonetsk
From CNN's Sebastian Shukla

Russian forces attacking the key city of Severodonetsk, in the Luhansk region of Eastern Ukraine, have enough reserved to launch a large-scale offensive, the head of the region's Military, Serhiy Hayday, said.
Speaking on Monday evening, Hayday said that dozens of pieces of Russian heavy military equipment had been brought into the region and were already deployed on the battlefield.
In the city itself, Hayday said that fighting is underway in the industrial area, but that “most of the city is under control [of Russian army]. Now the Ukrainian military controls only the industrial zone and the territory of the Azot plant.”
Hayday also provided an update on the fighting in the neighboring town of Lysychansk. He said that there was fighting along the highway between Lysychansk and Bakhmut and that all the towns in that area are being shelled and that Lysychansk “had been shelled almost all day” on Monday.




3 hr 25 min agoUkraine's deputy defense minister calls fight for Luhansk region "very difficult" and "dynamic"
From CNN's Sebastian Shukla

Debris and destroyed cars are seen along a road in Lysychansk on June 19. (Madeleine Kelly/SOPA Images/LightRocket/Getty Images)

Ukraine's Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar said on Monday that “the struggle is very difficult” in the eastern Luhansk region, and that making any predictions are “extremely difficult” given the “dynamic” nature of the fighting.
She added that information is changing rapidly “every half an hour the situation changes.” She said that unless either Ukrainian or Russian forces are in total control of a town or village border, “it is impossible to say what the situation is.”
On the battle for Severodonetsk, Mailar said that she was not going to make any predictions as to the outcome of the battle for the key strategic city in Luhansk region.
Maliar also went on to say that Russian forces in the region have an advantage in number of personnel and weapons.

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i wonder what it will take to get NATO to finish this shit show? it's just fucking painful to watch...shitty orcs murdering and raping, and supposedly one of the finest fighting forces on earth is just standing there watching, letting the fucking forces of fascism loot half the country while they bomb the other half to rubble...i'm fucking ashamed of all of us for allowing this to keep going on, instead of standing up like men to a bully who will never go away until beaten soundly.

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i wonder what it will take to get NATO to finish this shit show? it's just fucking painful to watch...shitty orcs murdering and raping, and supposedly one of the finest fighting forces on earth is just standing there watching, letting the fucking forces of fascism loot half the country while they bomb the other half to rubble...i'm fucking ashamed of all of us for allowing this to keep going on, instead of standing up like men to a bully who will never go away until beaten soundly.

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Countries have no morals only interests and I figure oil is the interest for Russia, Ukraine and Europe, it appears to be the thing that is unspoken in all this, but motivated much of it. The brain trust has concluded the way to get Russia out of Ukraine is to slowly destroy it, I'm sure the slogan, spook and nuke, is being tossed around, avoid spooking them and avoid nuking them, blead the fuckers to death slowly and as completely as you can. The legs will kick around and they will thrash about near the end!

It's the only thing that makes sense to me, this situation evolved and when it evolved to a certain point a decision was taken in Washington and other places after analysis by experts. Ukraine could win and with western help could destroy the Russian army and the longer it got drawn into a war of attrition the more Russia and it's military would be destroyed. Win the war in a week and the Germans would be back to buying Russian oil the week after and France sending replacement parts for arms a week after that. So perhaps there might be several reasons for a longer war, sucking in and destroying the irreplaceable Russian tanks and equipment is one of them. However if they start selling oil again and sanctions are lifted, they can build those tanks again or buy the tools and technology to do so. If you want to really fuck Russia, cut it out of the energy markets for a decade as we transition to EVs and green new grids with vastly improved battery technology. The longer the war the longer the sanctions and the more assets that can be seized, the more of the Russian army that can be destroyed.

Europe might freeze in the dark and Africa might starve, but the Russians will get and deserve the blame. One way or another the map of central Europe will be changed and Putin in trouble politically. If Uncle Sam had planned this as revenge on Russia and Putin for fucking over America and helping to impose Trump, they could not have done a better job. Nobody could fuck Vlad better than he fucked himself and Sammy was waiting to chop the fucker's head off when he stuck it out, well he stuck it out real fucking good!

Roger A. Shrubber said:

i don't know if the "dream" is as important to Xi as regaining Taiwan is...dictators never seems to like it when territory they consider their own secedes from them. i also am not so sure they care about the threat so much, they have been developing their own network of vassal states, buying them off with rail lines and freight depots, while also building military bases every chance they get...they're in a pretty good position to not give a fuck what America or the rest of the world thinks about them.

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China so far has left Taiwan alone. In fact they trade with each other very successfully. They have historically had good relations with each other but yes it is strained the last few years. Taiwan and Mainland China signed the "Cross-straits Agreements for the Avoidance of Double Taxation on Income and Solidifying Cooperation with respect to Taxes" (hereinafter referred to as "Cross-straits ITA") on 25 August 2015.
Will Taiwan end up back under China's rule? Probably. But that might be in 10 years or another 200 years. I don't see America wanting another proxy war but i didn't think they would want another russian proxy war this time either. Must just be to much $ in it. Falklands will also probably end up with Argentina and North and South Korea will hopefully be reunited one day like Vietnam was. Ireland and Northern ireland maybe one day to.

For what its worth
Despite the recent tensions between China and Taiwan, research suggests that many Taiwanese people are relatively untroubled.
In October the Taiwan Public Opinion Foundation asked people whether they thought that there would, eventually, be war with China.
Almost two thirds (64.3%) replied that they did not.


Do you give a fk what people think of you or are you just you and they accept you as you are? Why did Trump start this new round of lets hate on China thing?

Should the US have so many missiles surrounding China and want to dominate what is their sea's? Its called the China sea and South China sea for a reason. Why does the US need to dominate all the oceans for and set up military bases all over the globe?
Its very hypocritical.